Pete Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 25 minutes ago, Tomas Sandstrom said: What did he go through? And why was he called soft? As a 17-year-old he was playing for Czechoslovakia in a tournament in Canada. Another defector helped him sneak away from the team where he had $20 in his pocket. He wound up playing for the Seattle Thunderbirds and was so good he was drafted number two overall. Messier thought he was soft because he wasn't your typical Canadian thumper. Typical anti-Euro shit. Nedved used to throw up in garbage cans in the locker room before games because he was so nervous, he didn't want to fuck up and get yelled at by "the captain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 28 minutes ago, Tomas Sandstrom said: What did he go through? And why was he called soft? Nedved was thought to be soft by Messier because he was a big framed Center with skill who played a skill game. He wasn’t a physical player. Not afraid of contact or going to the middle of the ice, but he didn’t play like a power forward or live in the “dirty areas.” He had tons of skill- really was a total package type player skill wise. But not particularly physical despite good size. As to what he went through… Nedved defected from Czechoslovakia as a 17 year old playing in a tournament in Calgary. He had $20 in his pocket and spoke no English. He snuck away from his handlers and defected with the help of another defector. Then the State Police apparatus in Czechoslovakia threatened him and his family for several years trying to get him to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 hours ago, Pete said: As a 17-year-old he was playing for Czechoslovakia in a tournament in Canada. Another defector helped him sneak away from the team where he had $20 in his pocket. He wound up playing for the Seattle Thunderbirds and was so good he was drafted number two overall. Messier thought he was soft because he wasn't your typical Canadian thumper. Typical anti-Euro shit. Nedved used to throw up in garbage cans in the locker room before games because he was so nervous, he didn't want to fuck up and get yelled at by "the captain." You make it sound so dramatic. All that you need is a love interest in your treatment above, and you could have the basis for the script to "Youngblood 2: Czech Dreams". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 ranger fans dont like soft players either. Mess brought us the cup, so whatever he said went. And rightfully so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 28 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: You make it sound so dramatic. All that you need is a love interest in your treatment above, and you could have the basis for the script to "Youngblood 2: Czech Dreams". Well I think the point is… and both Pete and I have made the point here before.. Mess treated winning hockey games as life and death. For someone who went through Nedved did as a child defector… real life and death stuff… people with those kinds of experiences tend not to treat anything that isn’t life and death as such. That’s all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 minute ago, RangersIn7 said: Well I think the point is… and both Pete and I have made the point here before.. Mess treated winning hockey games as life and death. For someone who went through Nedved did as a child defector… real life and death stuff… people with those kinds of experiences tend not to treat anything that isn’t life and death as such. That’s all. Nedved was a soft skilled player. Mess doest like soft players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 We could use Dean Youngblood. Is he available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, RJWantsTheCup said: We could use Dean Youngblood. Is he available? I think Carl Racki might be better suited for this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, Albatrosss said: Nedved was a soft skilled player. Mess doest like soft players. Yeah. That’s no secret. And I both understand and respect his mentality. He just didn’t need to run off a talented kid like that. Especially when he was a better player than what came back from Pittsburgh. Rangers played Pittsburgh that year in the playoffs and Pittsburgh was by no means a tough and physical team. The Penguins absolutely throttled them. I’ll always love Mess. But he was no angel and he did his fair share of shitty things- to teammates and to the Rangers organization as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: I think Carl Racki might be better suited for this series. Youngblood beat him up in the end. He's a tough guy now who can score. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 He was a soft hockey player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 58 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: You make it sound so dramatic. All that you need is a love interest in your treatment above, and you could have the basis for the script to "Youngblood 2: Czech Dreams". I don't "make it sound" like anything other than what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 8 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: Yeah. That’s no secret. And I both understand and respect his mentality. He just didn’t need to run off a talented kid like that. Especially when he was a better player than what came back from Pittsburgh. Rangers played Pittsburgh that year in the playoffs and Pittsburgh was by no means a tough and physical team. The Penguins absolutely throttled them. I’ll always love Mess. But he was no angel and he did his fair share of shitty things- to teammates and to the Rangers organization as well. First off I just wrote that because Pete's post sounded so overly dramatic, I couldn't pass over the opportunity to mock him because, well it's just kind of fun to make fun of him. Completely get how someone who has been in a life & death kind of experience could develop that mindset that you described. Sounds eminently understandable. Having said that we are talking about 2 different things here: 1) Mindset 2) Style/softness of play; which while they may be related, are not the same exact thing. If we are discussing mindset; to be in the NHL today, I can't imagine how many young players need that life or death mindset to be successful. My son just made his first Tier 1 youth hockey team, and I can tell you while they screw around like most stupid kids off of the ice; when they are at the rink the entire 20 man squad treats games with that kind of urgency. Can only imagine how that needs to be amplified at the highest level as opposed to 14U hockey. While I don't think any of us can speak to anything specific that Messier did Nedved during his 1st tenure with the Rangers(because we were not there); I don't think it's unreasonable to have a wine at all costs mindset in that environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 2 minutes ago, Pete said: I don't "make it sound" like anything other than what it is. Because you sat in the locker next to Nedved, or because you read heresay in the NY Post or Newsday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 15 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: First off I just wrote that because Pete's post sounded so overly dramatic, I couldn't pass over the opportunity to mock him because, well it's just kind of fun to make fun of him. Completely get how someone who has been in a life & death kind of experience could develop that mindset that you described. Sounds eminently understandable. Having said that we are talking about 2 different things here: 1) Mindset 2) Style/softness of play; which while they may be related, are not the same exact thing. If we are discussing mindset; to be in the NHL today, I can't imagine how many young players need that life or death mindset to be successful. My son just made his first Tier 1 youth hockey team, and I can tell you while they screw around like most stupid kids off of the ice; when they are at the rink the entire 20 man squad treats games with that kind of urgency. Can only imagine how that needs to be amplified at the highest level as opposed to 14U hockey. While I don't think any of us can speak to anything specific that Messier did Nedved during his 1st tenure with the Rangers(because we were not there); I don't think it's unreasonable to have a wine at all costs mindset in that environment. I don’t disagree that seriousness and intensity is 100% necessary. All I was saying was that Nedved was who he was, he had an outlook, style, or what have you that Mess didn’t like, that that was the primary reason he was moved, and that Mess in his tenure as a Ranger did shitty things to several teammates as well as the organization as a whole. Thats all. And all of those things are well documented facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 31 minutes ago, Vodka Drunkenski said: He was a soft hockey player Fair. He was a skill and finesse player. That’s who he was as a player. Not physical despite a big frame. Not a hard nosed guy. You can win with guys who aren’t. Its helpful to have both. To my earlier point- the highly skilled, all finesse Penguins of that season kicked the ever loving shit out of Mess and his hard nosed cronies that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 15 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: I don’t disagree that seriousness and intensity is 100% necessary. All I was saying was that Nedved was who he was, he had an outlook, style, or what have you that Mess didn’t like, that that was the primary reason he was moved, and that Mess in his tenure as a Ranger did shitty things to several teammates as well as the organization as a whole. Thats all. And all of those things are well documented facts. Fair enough, and I think that we 99.8% agree so there is no need to parse the minutia. At the end of the day, Messier was more or less the shadow GM of that team until Checketts and Smith got tired of that scenario when the thrill of 1994 wore off. As Albatross kind of intimated, Messier wanted "his guys" around him while he was steering the ship, and right or wrong that is kind of how it goes in that type of environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 22 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: Fair. He was a skill and finesse player. That’s who he was as a player. Not physical despite a big frame. Not a hard nosed guy. You can win with guys who aren’t. Its helpful to have both. To my earlier point- the highly skilled, all finesse Penguins of that season kicked the ever loving shit out of Mess and his hard nosed cronies that year. I don't know if I would call Ron Francis, Jaromir Jagr, Bryan Smolinski and Glen Murray "all finesse", but yup point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 50 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Because you sat in the locker next to Nedved, or because you read heresay in the NY Post or Newsday? I mean, this is all well documented. If you don't think having to defect at 17 and leave home and your family behind, then I don't know what to tell you. It's probably a rougher go than what anybody on this board had to go through at 17. But hey, since I don't give a fuck what you think I'll just leave it at that. Edited May 22 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 12 minutes ago, Pete said: I mean, this is all well documented. If you don't think having to defect at 17 and leave home and your family behind, then I don't know what to tell you. It's probably a rougher go than what anybody on this board had to go through at 17. But hey, since I don't give a fuck what you think I'll just leave it at that. Obviously you do or you wouldn't have responded, but hey as Bill O' Reilly used to say "I'll give you the last word". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Obviously you do or you wouldn't have responded, That's not how that works, but let me rephrase it in a way you'll understand, I don't care what you think because your opinions are often for shit. But it doesn't mean I'm going to let them go without slapping them back. Quote but hey as Bill O' Reilly used to say "I'll give you the last word". Why am I not surprised Edited May 22 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyInTheMiddle Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 28 minutes ago, Pete said: That's not how that works, but let me rephrase it in a way you'll understand, I don't care what you think because your opinions are often for shit. But it doesn't mean I'm going to let them go without slapping them back. Why am I not surprised It wasn't an opinion, it was a snarky question; but sure clearly you don't give a f*ck enough to go back and edit your answer twice. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 32 minutes ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: It wasn't an opinion, it was a snarky question; but sure clearly you don't give a f*ck enough to go back and edit your answer twice. Well done. So much for the last word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: I don't know if I would call Ron Francis, Jaromir Jagr, Bryan Smolinski and Glen Murray "all finesse", but yup point taken. That roster was way more speed and skill and finesse than it was physicality, toughness and grit. Richter gave up so many goals in that series he had a sunburn on the back of his neck from the red light going off behind him. It wasn’t close. And it played out that way cause Pittsburgh had more skill, speed and talent. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, MuddyInTheMiddle said: Obviously you do or you wouldn't have responded, but hey as Bill O' Reilly used to say "I'll give you the last word". You’re quoting a bloated, entitled, self-righteous asshole, conservative rapists now? Bill O’Reillly? Really? That guy? You know he hosted a tabloid show for years… which gave him a career… then spent a couple decades bashing tabloid journalism, right? Hey… I’ve got a couple of really good quotes from Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein? Wanna hear them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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