Rangers in the Trade Market for Physical LD; Joel Edmundson a Target?

[Phil]

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The future is probably not here for the once (over)hyped centerpiece of the 2018 deadline deal with Tampa Bay, in which Ryan McDonagh and J.T. Miller went the other way. 

 

More than that, going with the 6-foot-5, 27-year-old Harpur on Braden Schneider’s left side on the third pair indicates that the Rangers are going to be in the trade market for a big-bodied, physical blue liner to fill the left side behind Ryan Lindgren and K’Andre Miller. 

 

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The Canadiens’ 29-year-old, 6-5, 221-pound Joel Edmundson could be a target, though the seven-year veteran, who was an integral part of the Blues’ 2019 Stanley Cup-winning defense corps, has a contract with an annual $3.5 million cap hit that runs through 2023-24. Perhaps a sweetener would convince Montreal to take 50 percent of the contract. 

 

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The Rangers, facing an extremely tight cap squeeze, would not have the ability to keep Edmundson, Lindgren and Barclay Goodrow next year while also extending Filip Chytil, Miller and Alexis Lafreniere, even at that 50 percent discount. That would add another layer to general manager Chris Drury’s offseason decision making. 

 

But Edmundson’s addition would bulk up the back end for coach Gerard Gallant, who believes — and correctly so — that might makes right in the postseason. 

 

https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/ben-harpurs-insertion-in-rangers-lineup-alarming-for-libor-hajek/

[LindG1000]

Edmundson is the right sort of target for us, but I think he'll both be highly sought after and comes with cap complications Brooks pointed out.

 

Refreshing to see Ol' Larry not grab one from the forum for his column, though.

[Cash or Czech]

If we need players on expiring deals, the ideal 3LD targets IMO are Kulikov, Gavrikov, Mikkola for someone more defensive or Gostisbehere for a 2PPQB

[LindG1000]

To add on, this is the classic "third-party broker" situation. It's a one-year hit of 850k for a draft pick or prospect - decent win for an intermediary.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Cash or Czech said:

If we need players on expiring deals, the ideal 3LD targets IMO are Kulikov, Gavrikov, Mikkola for someone more defensive or Gostisbehere for a 2PPQB

 

Kulikov, Gavrikov, Hamonic, Beaulieu, Hagg, Staal, Stecher.

 

Josh Khalfin did a great job breaking down the pros and cons of a lot of these guys a few days back: https://jknyr.substack.com/p/a-halfway-ish-through-the-season

[Blue Heaven]

5 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

If we need players on expiring deals, the ideal 3LD targets IMO are Kulikov, Gavrikov, Mikkola for someone more defensive or Gostisbehere for a 2PPQB

No need for acquire a 2PPQB and waste the cap space on him, they only play :15-:30.  

[siddious]

Marc staal would be awesome for that third pair if you ask me

 

edit: I assume he’s not available though since florida is a playoff team? 

Edited December 19, 2022 by siddious

[LindG1000]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

Kulikov, Gavrikov, Hamonic, Beaulieu, Hagg, Staal, Stecher.

 

Josh Khalfin did a great job breaking down the pros and cons of a lot of these guys a few days back: https://jknyr.substack.com/p/a-halfway-ish-through-the-season

 

I'd say pretty concretely that Edmundson would be the best of that bunch, though I like Gavrikov.

 

I'd say there are a bunch of very creative and very necessary trades coming up at the deadline, and I'd expect to see cap gymnastics slash shenanigans play a role. 

 

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

3LD is probably the most important upgrade at this moment. We need help at RW, but I don't think there's any chance this team goes on any sort of run without a solid addition to the left side of the defense.

 

Lindgren and Miller are fine, but still lacking experience and you never know when Lindgren's gonna get injured, especially in the playoffs. Need someone reliable if/when that happens.

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

3LD is probably the most important upgrade at this moment. We need help at RW, but I don't think there's any chance this team goes on any sort of run without a solid addition to the left side of the defense.

 

Lindgren and Miller are fine, but still lacking experience and you never know when Lindgren's gonna get injured, especially in the playoffs. Need someone reliable if/when that happens.

 

Agreed. And we've seen what happens when you try to go into the playoffs without proper defensive depth. Playing with effectively two pairs instead of three is a recipe for disaster. They'll exhaust the team.

[RangersIn7]

35 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

Edmundson is the right sort of target for us, but I think he'll both be highly sought after and comes with cap complications Brooks pointed out.

 

Refreshing to see Ol' Larry not grab one from the forum for his column, though.

He’s absolutely the type of player you get. Don’t know how they do it in terms of money. And his price will go high. But you are getting next year too, so he’s not a straight rental. 
 

They need a LH D that can play 18-20, is solid defensively,  stay at home, bring size and physicality, and kill penalties. Edmundson checks those boxes.

 

 

[Sod16]

Basically every team has a less than ideal third pair.  It the Devils can get by with Brendan Smith there, we can live with Hajek or whoever.  If we feel compelled to do something in this regard, it can wait until the deadline.

[RangersIn7]

Just now, Sod16 said:

Basically every team has a less than ideal third pair.  It the Devils can get by with Brendan Smith there, we can live with Hajek or whoever.  If we feel compelled to do something in this regard, it can wait until the deadline.

I’m ok with Hajek/Harpur/ Jones/ Robertson as the depth guys.
 

But between now and the trade deadline, they need 2 things:

1) Top-6 RW

2) Bottom-4 LD

 

Necessities. 
 

I believe they can find and fit both without cutting a tendon. 

[RangersIn7]

Matthew Robertson needs a real look at this point. 

[Phil]

42 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

Basically every team has a less than ideal third pair.  It the Devils can get by with Brendan Smith there, we can live with Hajek or whoever.  If we feel compelled to do something in this regard, it can wait until the deadline.

 

The gap between Smith and Hajek is significant, though. No team has an excellent third pairing, because if they did, those players would be higher in their lineup, but a playoff team choosing to play below replacement level players like Hajek, Tinordi, and Harpur is objectively bad decision making.

 

 

Take it with whatever sized grain of salt you need, but one of these players is serviceable and the other is not an NHL-caliber player. Full stop.

[BrooksBurner]

13 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Matthew Robertson needs a real look at this point. 

This. Call him up and see what’s going on. Who is to say he can’t be immediately successful ala Schneider, even if Schneider had some bumps along the way?

 

The Rangers would still need a good depth defenseman, but it would answer the question of how good of a defenseman do they need to trade for and if it’s a problem they need to address for next year.

[RangersIn7]

Who isn’t shopping for some form and level of help on D at the deadline.

 

Depth on D is so important for a March to War and a playoff run.

 

Love their top-5. Fox-Lindgren-Trouba-Miller-Schneider are a very good group.

Trouba and Miller have elevated since a VERY POOR 1/3 of the season. 
Add a veteran, bottom-pair, LH D, give Robertson a real look, and I’m ok with Harpur/Hajek/Jones as a 7/8/9 option. 
 

 

 

[LindG1000]

Phil nailed this imo - it's one thing to have an unremarkable third pair, it's another entirely to play below replacement players simply because they're there. We should be doing our due diligence on guys like Edmundson and Gavrikov, and in cases like Edmundson, work out the financial scenario that makes it work.

 

I'm not necessarily advocating for overspending for it, but a double-retained Edmundson is less than an ELC cap hit for us next season. That's theft, and it's worth exploring the cost to make that or a similar move happen.

[Valriera]

The real gas to me about literally all of this is we let Brandon Smith walk for absolutely no reason two seasons ago and that decision continues to fucking haunt us. I love what Drury has done with the team so far but that was a real mistake. He's always a versatile, servicable defenseman not worth 4M a year but absolutely worth 1, and we let him go to create a hole in our lineup that we're simply unable to fill. 

 

I remember when this post was made I made the first comment and it remains exactly correct. Even the next one, about the price, exactly correct, because he signed an 800k 1 yr and now a 1.1M AAV 2 year deal with the devils. We were clearly all wrong in the thread that the team shouldn't have trouble finding depth options, because we do, and have ever since this silly, silly move. You can't possibly look at our 3D situation and say someone like smith playing with a rotating roster of Schneider/hajek/whomever is the ideal situation and we can't have that because...well I still have no idea why. Boils my shit that one. 

 

[Ozzy]

I have no problem with Edmundson either, but I would like to see a good 10 games or so with Robertson in there.  Harpur hasn't been bad at all, but that was also against non contending teams.  I think if we can see Robertson for a spell and see what he's got under the hood....who knows, we have have the solution without having to go out and take on another contract.

[RangersIn7]

55 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

This. Call him up and see what’s going on. Who is to say he can’t be immediately successful ala Schneider, even if Schneider had some bumps along the way?

 

The Rangers would still need a good depth defenseman, but it would answer the question of how good of a defenseman do they need to trade for and if it’s a problem they need to address for next year.

Yup

 

Its not as if you’re replacing a solid player there. And no one who has filled that role has run away with it.

Bring him up. See what he does.

 

At the very least…you got his feet wet.

 

He’s 21 going on 22. Has close to 100 pro games. Gives you size.

Range.

Pretty physical.

And has skating ability to boot.

 

He is, I’ll mention, -15 thus far as a pro.

But Hartford is bad right now. 
 

I’ve seen a bit of him playing. Pretty limited. So I’m no expert. And this kid will need time. He CAN potentially round into an NHL defenseman. But it’s not coming all at once. But I think he’s probably as good as what you’ve got.

 

But who knows?

 

He might just gel with Schneider. VERY similar styles and potentially together, those 2 are exactly what you want as a 3rd D pair.

 

Fuck it. Why not?

At least till you get a veteran LD.

[Ozzy]

@Uncle Larry....there you go man!!  You too Molly!  I know you and Merc are both out there!

 

Maybe make a ploy to see what we have in Robertson! 

[Pete]

Robertson would have gotten a callup instead of Harpur, if we was ready. IIRC he was one of the first cuts in camps.

 

I don't want to trade for a D at the deadline, you pay an outsized cost because everyone wants defense. Unless you can grab a Braun-type 20-game rental. Coincidentally, he should be available.

 

But he stinks.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, LindG1000 said:

Phil nailed this imo - it's one thing to have an unremarkable third pair, it's another entirely to play below replacement players simply because they're there. We should be doing our due diligence on guys like Edmundson and Gavrikov, and in cases like Edmundson, work out the financial scenario that makes it work.

 

I'm not necessarily advocating for overspending for it, but a double-retained Edmundson is less than an ELC cap hit for us next season. That's theft, and it's worth exploring the cost to make that or a similar move happen.

 

I don't know that it's worth it to try for double retention, but maybe he's a retained trade now at 50% and then traded a second time this draft to recoup some of the losses? They probably can't afford him even with retention going into next season.

[LindG1000]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

I don't know that it's worth it to try for double retention, but maybe he's a retained trade now at 50% and then traded a second time this draft to recoup some of the losses? They probably can't afford him even with retention going into next season.

Oh, they totally could. 3.5M with double retention is 875K. For Edmundson, that's robbery.