Sod16 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 So the Wild is retiring his jersey. He was a good defensive oriented center over a long period who had a total of two, yes two, twenty goal seasons. He was selected for the all star game precisely once. He never was on a post-season all start team. He didn't play on a cup winner, or for a team that won more than one round in the playoffs, for that matter. He'll never step on the same block in Toronto as the Hall of Fame. Should a relatively new team lower the bar for this? It's getting ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 He was the only player anyone knew on the Wild until Gaborik. Yes. Jerseys don't get retired because of how they stack up against other retired jerseys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Too many numbers get retired these days, especially compared to previous players. And this includes the Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Also inB4 @Phil comes and says "They shouldn't retire numbers, they should just honor them" and then I have to remind him that has nothing to do with this thread because we'd just be debating if Koivu should have his number "honored". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Jersey retirements are stupid. Honor them. Let future players ask permission to wear honored numbers. Problem solved. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 hours ago, Pete said: He was the only player anyone knew on the Wild until Gaborik. Yes. Gaborik was well established long before Koivu played for the Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, Sod16 said: Gaborik was well established long before Koivu played for the Wild. How does that change the point? Name another memorable Wild player... And I mean memorable for the right reasons. I mean maybe you can because you live there, but the rest of us pretty much associate the wild with Koivu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Pretty soon were gonna see them wearing letters!! LOL "GOAL SCORED BY NUMBER 99A, WAYNE WANNABE....ASSISTED BY #23C ADAM HOUND"!!!! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 "New York Rangers goal scored by Fire Emoji Eggplant Emoji, Alexis Loaf! Assisted by <unintelligible sounds>, Argo Fargo and Chinese symbol for purity, Wi Fi!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I like the way European Football does it. Become one of the many 'famous' players to get to wear the prestigious number for the team, like Manchester United with Beckham, Ronaldo and others in the Number 7. I think that builds on history much better than a jersey retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlairBettsBlocksEverything Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I don't see the harm in it or why anyone cares so much. 15 years and over 1000 games with them, he's an important player in their history, the fans love him. Why not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Also, what's being said a lot here is right — jersey retirements (dumb as they are!) are for fans of a franchise. They're not supposed to "make sense" to everyone everywhere. Koivu means nothing to you or me. He means everything to young fans who grew up watching the Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Pete said: How does that change the point? Name another memorable Wild player... And I mean memorable for the right reasons. So a good chunk of the teams are relatively new. Should they lower the bar and start retiring jerseys of players who aren't even close to HOF if that's all they've got? The trouble is that there is a snowballing effect. Next, some team will retire the sweater of some guy not quite as worthy as Koviu, etc. Well, I shouldn't expect much from a team with a dumb name and logo who retired #1, in honor of their fans (who failed to support the North Stars), on opening night of their first year. As for us, I love Graves, Richter and Hadfield, but they are questionable. Park is more deserving. Only seven years and change with the Rangers but the only post-war Ranger with three first team all star selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Sod16 said: So a good chunk of the teams are relatively new. Should they lower the bar and start retiring jerseys of players who aren't even close to HOF if that's all they've got? The trouble is that there is a snowballing effect. Next, some team will retire the sweater of some guy not quite as worthy as Koviu, etc. Well, I shouldn't expect much from a team with a dumb name and logo who retired #1, in honor of their fans (who failed to support the North Stars), on opening night of their first year. As for us, I love Graves, Richter and Hadfield, but they are questionable. Park is more deserving. Only seven years and change with the Rangers but the only post-war Ranger with three first team all star selections. Who do you think nostalgia and legacies get created? Should you just not create moments for the fans because the franchise is new and doesn't have the legacy of the Leafs? I dunno about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphinity 2.0 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Cash or Czech said: I like the way European Football does it. Become one of the many 'famous' players to get to wear the prestigious number for the team, like Manchester United with Beckham, Ronaldo and others in the Number 7. I think that builds on history much better than a jersey retirement. Would never work in hockey - players are too deferential. Example: 66 isn't retired anywhere except Pittsburgh, yet no one (except Josh Ho Sang) dares wear the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Morphinity said: Would never work in hockey - players are too deferential. Example: 66 isn't retired anywhere except Pittsburgh, yet no one (except Josh Ho Sang) dares wear the number. Because they're cowards. Fuck this stupid unwritten law. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsm7302 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete said: Who do you think nostalgia and legacies get created? Should you just not create moments for the fans because the franchise is new and doesn't have the legacy of the Leafs? I dunno about that one. I'm sticking with Pete. This is about the franchise and not the league as a whole. It builds the story of the franchise. He may not be an all time leader in anything other than leadership for the franchise but that means a lot to that generation of fans. Im all for honoring the players and at this point the only standing process to do that is jersey retirement. It stands to solidify in franchise history what that player did to establish the franchise. It isnt about stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Phil said: Because they're cowards. Fuck this stupid unwritten law. Why are they cowards? Because they choose to show their respect to a great player in a way that you don't agree with? Like @Morphinity said, there's no rule that they can't wear it, they are choosing not to. And also let's not act like this is a widespread problem, players wear 77 and 68, 9, etc. There was literally one example given, 66. Edited March 10, 2022 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Dreamer Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 On 3/10/2022 at 4:37 PM, Cash or Czech said: I like the way European Football does it. Become one of the many 'famous' players to get to wear the prestigious number for the team, like Manchester United with Beckham, Ronaldo and others in the Number 7. I think that builds on history much better than a jersey retirement. History is a bit different as usual, I remember the days when soccer players didn't even have their own numbers to begin with. Instead numbers were tied (roughly) to positions. With lower numbers going to the Defense, 9 and 11 usually being forwards and 10 the guy who drove the play. We switched to personal numbers in the Mid-90s, England a bit earlier I think. And apparently numbers in general don't appear until after WW2, by that time the Leafs had already started retiring numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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