2021-22 Interactive Power Rankings

[Cash or Czech]

1. Chris Kreider

2. Igor Shesterkin

3. Artemi Panarin

4. Mika Zibanejad

5. Adam Fox

6. Jacob Trouba

7. K'Andre Miller

8. Barclay Goodrow 

9. Frank Vatrano

10. Andrew Copp +1

11. Alexis Lafrenière

12. Ryan Strome

13. Ryan Lindgren

14. Filip Chytil

15. Braden Schneider

16. Tyler Motte

17. Jonny Brodzinski

18. Dryden Hunt

19. Ryan Reaves

20. Alexandar Georgiev

21. Patrik Nemeth

22. Libor Hajek

23. Justin Braun

24. Greg McKegg

25. Julien Gauthier -1

 

I really feel like things are out of whack here. Strome is too low (can't undo RMC's choice). Goodrow is too high but I don't think Vatrano should be above him either. I'd literally copy and paste Strome and Copp above Goodrow and Vatrano if I could, hence the Copp move. Lindgren is still a minute cruncher too that should be much higher.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

I really feel like things are out of whack here

Because they are, and people keep pumping Copp's tires...He was terrible last night, outside the fluke tip goal. He was directly responsible for 2 goals, one by cleanly losing a D zone draw and then by getting completely walked on the rush.

 

But you and others +1'd him for some reason. Moving up two spots for last night's game is comical.

 

It's almost like there's a narrative that he should replace Strome and people are using the rankings to will it into existence LOL.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Pete

[Cash or Czech]

Just now, Pete said:

Because they are, and people keep pumping Copp's tires...He was terrible last night, outside the fluke tip goal. He was directly responsible for 2 goals, one by cleanly losing a D zone draw and then by getting completely walked on the rush.

 

But you and RMC both +1'd him for some reason.

 

I pumped him up because I do believe he is more valuable right now than the players above him. I wanted to move up Strome, but the rules say that I can't undo the previous person's move. So I upped one of the two that I believe should be higher.

 

I also made the most important move at the bottom.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

I pumped him up because I do believe he is more valuable right now than the players above him. I wanted to move up Strome, but the rules say that I can't undo the previous person's move. So I upped one of the two that I believe should be higher.

 

I also made the most important move at the bottom.

Well Strome is hurt so you can't move him up and it's even sillier to move him down, but he shouldn't be at 12 any more than Vatrano should be 9 or Copp 10. These guys have been here for 5 minutes.

 

I think people just decide to plus up a player regardless of where there are, and aren't looking at the list in context.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Pete

[BrooksBurner]

Copp deserves his spot. He was a 50 point player up in Winnipeg. He has 8 points in 7 games playing largely with Panarin. He goes to the middle of the ice. He’s won some big faceoffs already. He’s defensively responsible.

 

He’s played better in this stretch than Strome has all year.

[Cash or Czech]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Well Strome is hurt so you can't move him up and it's even sillier to move him down, but he shouldn't be at 12 any more than Vatrano should be 9 or Copp 10. These guys have been here for 5 minutes.

 

I think people just decide to plus up a player regardless of where there are, and aren't looking at the list in context.

 

I mean, feel free to move Vatrano down or some of the lower guys up to reflect your thoughts? I agree with you, but I only have two moves.

[Pete]

7 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

I mean, feel free to move Vatrano down or some of the lower guys up to reflect your thoughts? I agree with you, but I only have two moves.

When I'm at my computer, too annoying to do on phone.

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Copp deserves his spot. He was a 50 point player up in Winnipeg. He has 8 points in 7 games playing largely with Panarin. He goes to the middle of the ice. He’s won some big faceoffs already. He’s defensively responsible.

 

He’s played better in this stretch than Strome has all year.

What he did in Winnipeg is irrelevant to his rank here.

 

The last line is is fiction, but it aligns with your 3 year narrative so it's unsurprising.

[Phil]

1. Chris Kreider

2. Igor Shesterkin

3. Artemi Panarin

4. Mika Zibanejad

5. Adam Fox

6. Jacob Trouba

7. K'Andre Miller

8. Barclay Goodrow 

9. Frank Vatrano

10. Andrew Copp

11. Ryan Strome

12. Ryan Lindgren

13. Alexis Lafrenière -2

14. Filip Chytil

15. Braden Schneider

16. Tyler Motte

17. Jonny Brodzinski

18. Dryden Hunt

19. Ryan Reaves

20. Alexandar Georgiev

21. Patrik Nemeth

22. Libor Hajek

23. Justin Braun

24. Greg McKegg

25. Julien Gauthier

[BrooksBurner]

25 minutes ago, Pete said:

What he did in Winnipeg is irrelevant to his rank here.

 

The last line is is fiction, but it aligns with your 3 year narrative so it's unsurprising.

I already covered why I thought a player’s previous stops matter. I don’t think it’s irrelevant.

 

Strome was scoring at better than a PPG this year? What about the ridiculous 5v5 numbers Copp is posting? All of the ones the Rangers have been pretty bad in most of the year…xGF, Corsi, etc. Don’t think Strome was excelling at any of those this year? But Copp is doing all of that and it’s been 7 games. A decent sample size. There’s no narrative here. If he weren’t playing well he wouldn’t be moving up.

[Cash or Czech]

4 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I already covered why I thought a player’s previous stops matter. I don’t think it’s irrelevant.

 

Strome was scoring at better than a PPG this year? What about the ridiculous 5v5 numbers Copp is posting? All of the ones the Rangers have been pretty bad in most of the year…xGF, Corsi, etc. Don’t think Strome was excelling at any of those this year? But Copp is doing all of that and it’s been 7 games. A decent sample size. There’s no narrative here. If he weren’t playing well he wouldn’t be moving up.

 

Might wanna do some research.

 

Strome CF% rel is +13.2 and FF% rel is +11.7. Copp's since joining NYR is +5.3 and +6.4 respectively. The only place Copp is getting an advantage is having a lower PDO%, since the goaltending has been slacking lately. 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

1 minute ago, Cash or Czech said:

Strome CF% rel is +13.2 and FF% rel is +11.7.

Is that for this season alone? That seems really high compared to the bad numbers the team have in general.

 

I don't know why people are crying over who's 10,11,12 and 13 when the narrative all season has been that the team is only Igor + 3-4 players. Kreider is #3 in points for forwards with 65, #5 is Goodrow with 26(!). There's a huge gap between the top 5 (Igor, Fox, Panarin, Mika, Kreider) and then we have 3-4 players in the group below (Strome, Trouba, Lindgren, Goodrow) then its the young guys (Miller, Schneider, Laf, Chytil, Kakko) and after that it's a lot of mehhh.

 

I think we all can agree that Vatrano and Copp deserves to be in the "Strome/Trouba group", so that they've made the way to #9-10 shouldn't be a big deal really. Especially with Lindgren not being as good lately and Strome being out for a few games now.

[Cash or Czech]

8 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Is that for this season alone? That seems really high compared to the bad numbers the team have in general.

 

Yes, that's for this season as players of the NYR. The relative number shows the player's performance relative to the rest of the team. Strome is miles better than the rest of the team, and I feel it's apples to apples because Copp has been either on the same line or replacement for Strome when injured. 

 

Yes, Copp is putting up points and a hot start in a small sample size. This is not indicative that he's a point/game player over the course of an entire season. 

[BrooksBurner]

24 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

Might wanna do some research.

 

Strome CF% rel is +13.2 and FF% rel is +11.7. Copp's since joining NYR is +5.3 and +6.4 respectively. The only place Copp is getting an advantage is having a lower PDO%, since the goaltending has been slacking lately. 

Copp has a 67.24 xGF%, 62.39 CF% with the Rangers and Panarin. With the Jets and without Panarin, 50.38 xGF%, 52.87 CF%.

 

Strome this year has 48.58 xGF%, 49.44 CF% with Panarin.

 

And if we don’t geek out on those stats, Copp still has actual production with 8 pts in 7 games.

Edited April 4, 2022 by rmc51

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

3 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

 

Yes, that's for this season as players of the NYR. The relative number shows the player's performance relative to the rest of the team. Strome is miles better than the rest of the team, and I feel it's apples to apples because Copp has been either on the same line or replacement for Strome when injured. 

 

Yes, Copp is putting up points and a hot start in a small sample size. This is not indicative that he's a point/game player over the course of an entire season. 

That's interesting. Especially considering Strome is having his worst statistical season since pre-Panarin. It doesn't really add up to the eye-test either, but I'm no expert on the "relative to the team" numbers, so it could just be because most of the team throughout this season has played bad.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

26 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

Strome CF% rel is +13.2 and FF% rel is +11.7. Copp's since joining NYR is +5.3 and +6.4 respectively.

 

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Copp has a 67.24 xGF%, 62.39 CF% with the Rangers

 

2 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Strome this year has 48.58 xGF%, 49.44 CF% with Panarin.

 

I need to know how this adds up lol

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

 

 

 

I need to know how this adds up lol

What @Cash or Czech posted is on ice minus off ice corsi/xGF. A smaller number means they are closer to the rest of the team’s performance. A larger number means they are much better than the team’s performance. It’s useful, but more indicative of how the rest of the team is playing. And the team is currently playing much better than they previously were this season. So even though Strome’s numbers are far less than Copp’s, the team was terrible at 5v5 so the relative gap was large between Panarin/Strome and rest of team. Despite Panarin/Copp having much better numbers than Panarin/Strome, the rest of the team is playing significantly better than previously so the gap is smaller.

[Cash or Czech]

I think the team has been much better 5v5 with the recent acquisitions. Our depth has gotten much better overall with Vatrano, Copp, and Motte taking up significant roster spots and putting roster fodder like McKegg and Gauthier into the stands. I'm not sure we can truly compare Copp and Strome yet with Strome being hurt for the majority of Copp's tenure. It'll be interesting to see how they play either together or at least in the lineup during the team's current form. 

[BrooksBurner]

3 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

I think the team has been much better 5v5 with the recent acquisitions. Our depth has gotten much better overall with Vatrano, Copp, and Motte taking up significant roster spots and putting roster fodder like McKegg and Gauthier into the stands. I'm not sure we can truly compare Copp and Strome yet with Strome being hurt for the majority of Copp's tenure. It'll be interesting to see how they play either together or at least in the lineup during the team's current form. 

 

For sure they have been. Ironically picking up the goaltending now. If we were getting the level of goaltending we had previously, I’m not sure we would have lost any games yet post deadline, other than the Islanders one

[Pete]

22 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

Despite Panarin/Copp having much better numbers than Panarin/Strome,

LOL What? Come on dude. You're trying to compare 3 years of production to 2 weeks. This is why these takes can't be taken seriously.

[BrooksBurner]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

LOL What? Come on dude. You're trying to compare 3 years of production to 2 weeks. This is why these takes can't be taken seriously.

No, I was just looking at this season. I treat these power rankings in a much more of a “what have you done for me lately” view. If we didn’t, I’d probably keep Panarin’s name stapled at the top in perpetuity. Is there any doubt he’s the “best player” on the team based on how long he has been doing it and how good he is currently? Not really. Do you really think Kreider is the best player on the team? Or is he just playing the best “right now” (which is still debatable)? Has Igor been doing it long enough to say he’s a better player than Panarin? Probably not. But you don’t complain about these rankings. Yet you use these arguments to complain about Strome. Why’s that?

 

Not that it needs clarification, but I moved Strome down 2 last week while hurt because others were playing better and he had 2 points in his past 7 games before injury. It was inevitable he was getting passed up and just because he’s hurt doesn’t make him immune to fluctuation. If he wasn’t slumping prior to injury, I probably wouldn’t have moved him down. But he was looking like shit. Thems the breaks. If he performs well coming back then he’ll pass a few of these guys up in no time. Should be no problem for him, right?

[Pete]

1 minute ago, rmc51 said:

No, I was just looking at this season. I treat these power rankings in a much more of a “what have you done for me lately” view. If we didn’t, I’d probably keep Panarin’s name stapled at the top in perpetuity. Is there any doubt he’s the “best player” on the team based on how long he has been doing it and how good he is currently? Not really. Do you really think Kreider is the best player on the team? Or is he just playing the best “right now” (which is still debatable)? Has Igor been doing it long enough to say he’s a better player than Panarin? Probably not. But you don’t complain about these rankings. Yet you use these arguments to complain about Strome. Why’s that?

 

Not that it needs clarification, but I moved Strome down 2 last week while hurt because others were playing better and he had 2 points in his past 7 games before injury. It was inevitable he was getting passed up and just because he’s hurt doesn’t make him immune to fluctuation. If he wasn’t slumping prior to injury, I probably wouldn’t have moved him down. But he was looking like shit. Thems the breaks. If he performs well coming back then he’ll pass a few of these guys up in no time. Should be no problem for him, right?

RE: the bolded, I totally get that. I think if you look at the movement, it's just not viewed holistically by all. For example, it looks to me like more people are saying "I'm going to bump Vatrano up +2" and then they go and do that even though 3 other people already did, after the same game.

 

I don't think there's many people asking themselves if the list just looks right. I just don't see how Vatrano jumps 20 places for 2-3 hot games. Seems off, to me.

[Pete]

1. Chris Kreider

2. Igor Shesterkin

3. Artemi Panarin

4. Mika Zibanejad

5. Jacob Trouba

6. Adam Fox - 1

7. K'Andre Miller

8. Barclay Goodrow 

10. Andrew Copp

9. Frank Vatrano -1

11. Ryan Strome

12. Ryan Lindgren

13. Alexis Lafrenière

14. Filip Chytil

15. Braden Schneider

16. Tyler Motte

17. Jonny Brodzinski

18. Dryden Hunt

19. Ryan Reaves

20. Alexandar Georgiev

21. Patrik Nemeth

22. Libor Hajek

23. Justin Braun

24. Greg McKegg

25. Julien Gauthier

[LindG1000]

I think the Copp/Strome thing is rooted in immediacy and future thinking more than it is in objectivity. Which is fair, seeing as there's a pretty reasonable chance that it's an either-or proposition in the offseason, but not something that should show in spades in the power rankings.

[BrooksBurner]

14 minutes ago, Pete said:

RE: the bolded, I totally get that. I think if you look at the movement, it's just not viewed holistically by all. For example, it looks to me like more people are saying "I'm going to bump Vatrano up +2" and then they go and do that even though 3 other people already did, after the same game.

 

I don't think there's many people asking themselves if the list just looks right. I just don't see how Vatrano jumps 20 places for 2-3 hot games. Seems off, to me.

 

Yeah I mean if Vatrano doesn't wind up getting knocked down a bunch of slots over the next couple of weeks, that's probably going to be great news for us because it should still mean he's scoring. I've read he's a pretty streaky player though, and just glancing through his game logs that appears to be the case. It's likely to be short lived, but if he gets consistent opportunity on the top line....who knows?