gdt: [RS] (#5) Rangers at Pittsburgh Penguins // Jack Johnson Revenge Game #2

[siddious]

a few more performances like this and it will be getting late early.

 

Goaltending needs to be better. top guys need to get going. All of a sudden the blueline with miller and fox seems to be in better hands. holding cros and company to 19 shots is not bad.

 

Jury is way the hell out on Quinn. Not impressed at all with him.

 

On the plus side they?re putting themselves in the running for another lottery pick [emoji30]

 

 

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[Ozzy]

It's still only been 5 games, and yeah I realize that this is a sprint of a season, but I don't really expect this to be a playoff team....especially in the division the way it's set up this year. I figured I'd give them 10 games before I could really get a solid idea of what this team is this season, but a couple of observations so far to me:

 

The extra pass(es) bypassing a shot attempt from a good or high % scoring area is maddening

Miller looking to be very promising, and I think he's going to be even better

Pete's evaluation of Kakko and Laffy are correct...so far

Shesterkin plays ok, but can turn into Mr Softie at any moment...not the guy I saw last season...yet

Fox is our best/smartest player thus far...and can be a lethal PP1 QB

Strome played his best game of the season so far last night (I counted his faceoffs at 9-4...not sure if that's exact though)

 

Even after the game Mika said he isn't suffering from any after effects of his bout with Covid, but I think that's bullshit. He hasn't looked like himself just yet....glimpses of it, but not 100%...but that's just what I'm seeing.

 

...and there was this guy we had on the team, I forget his name....he used to be touted as a really tough forward, a north/south skater that was really good around the net and had great speed and size....what's his name??? Shit, I forgot....I haven't seen this guy in a while....oh, you know...one of the "team leaders"... he wore an "A".

 

What's his name, again???

 

Oh that's right Chris Kreider!!! ...Oh wait I found him!!! ...he's right here on the side of my milk carton!!! It says, "If found please return to 4 Pennsylvania Plaza, New York, NY 10001".

[Vodka Drunkenski]

Youth is not an excuse for what's happening right now. Some people didn't even expect Miller to make the team, he's been their second best defenseman.

 

Kakko and Lafreniere (especially) were advertised to be able to step in and contribute immediately. Kakko is still struggling with foot speed and Lafreniere has hovered between invisible and completely disengaged.

 

Obviously they're not busts, but neither one of them are living up to the hype.

 

I give Lafreniere a pass right now all thingsconsidering but I expected more from Kakko coming into this season, hopefully it?s just a slow start for him but judging what we?ve seen over last year, he has a very long way to good he wants to become a force in this league. Is that on him, the coach or both?

[lefty9]

Coach sucks

 

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Have we not been in a full rebuild since DQ be here ,and he is still above hive hundred,plus its his first NHL job in NYC ,I think he is doing just fine ,I don't agree with every move he makes ,but overall I think he's been fine

[Dunny]

Kakko is what he is, but Lafreniere looks like a guy who had the physical maturity of an overage in major junior and produced accordingly. Now, he's lost that advantage entirely, and is going to have to figure out how to produce in this league, because his physical stature, skating, and puck skills aren't particularly remarkable.

 

No bust label by any stretch, obviously, but once again the bill of goods sold to us by every talking head in the biz does not match the product.

[Pete]

Kakko is what he is, but Lafreniere looks like a guy who had the physical maturity of an overage in major junior and produced accordingly. Now, he's lost that advantage entirely, and is going to have to figure out how to produce in this league, because his physical stature, skating, and puck skills aren't particularly remarkable.

 

No bust label by any stretch, obviously, but once again the bill of goods sold to us by every talking head in the biz does not match the product.

 

[Dunny]

 

I get it, they were spoiled with McDavid and then Matthews, and Laine. But there seems to be some concerted attempt to portray all these #1's as "generational", or game changing.

 

It's not just Kakko/Hughes/Lafreniere either, they started it with Dahlin, who isn't even remotely as impactful as the guy taken after him.

 

All in all, it just sucks for the individuals who get hung with these labels and expectations.

[Valriera]

i mean this just sounds like people complaining that they got tricked into thinking these guys were going to be crosbys or mcdavids. Those players are special for a reason - that doesn't mean these two are anywhere remotely close to busts. Look, of course right now they're not producing how one might consider a first or second overall pick to play, but if your bar of comparison is the special players in the league, that's not realistic and you're going to be disappointed. Look at the list of number one draft picks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_NHL_draft_picks. More often than not, these players are not lighting the world on fire in their first two seasons. MacKinnon is a great comparison, won Rookie of the Year his first season, 68, 38, 52, and 53 points in his first few seasons. Look at him now.

 

Even (1st overall)Stamkos had 46 points in his first season.

 

(2 overall)Eichel is 56, 57, 64 in his first couple of seasons.

 

(2 overall)Jordan Staal hovers around the 40-50 point mark his whole career.

 

These players need time. It's not an opinion, its a statistical fact based on every player to ever enter the league, outside of your truly, truly exceptional cases, most of these players need time to get going, even the best ones in the league. It's not sunshine and rainbows, of course not, it's just a fact. Crosbys and McDavids are uniquely special players, and you're really not going to get those guys outside of unique circumstances. And look, even when you do, you still need to do other stuff to win. Look at the oilers, with four firsts overall in a short window, still nothing to show for it.

 

These players need time to learn their place in the league, and learn how to do the things they've been used to doing. Making the playoffs last season was great, but let's be honest, that was almost entirely due to a pair of MVP seasons from Panarin and Mika, and we're not winning a stanley cup on the backs of two players. No team does. We're going to need to expose the outstanding young core as much as we can so that they can learn, and learn, and learn, and then make our move when we think they're ready. That's not this year, it's probably not next year, but maybe the year after that it will be time to start thinking about it.

[Pete]

It's always the people accusing others who use the word "bust" first LOL.

 

No one thinks these players are busts. They were wold as being able to be impactful NHL players in their first season. Kakko actually made a negative impact his first season, and Lafreniere is completely lost.

 

Today, that's not good. In 5 years, might be a "who cares"?

[Keirik]

These poor poor pro athletes that are being labeled as can’t misses because growing up their whole lives they dominated wherever they went, had media attention that they thrived in, and did tons of interviews making sure their Gatorade sponsorship bottle was pointed in the right direction for the camera to see. God I feel so so so bad for them.

[Ozzy]

It's always the people accusing others who use the word "bust" first LOL.

 

No one thinks these players are busts. They were wold as being able to be impactful NHL players in their first season. Kakko actually made a negative impact his first season, and Lafreniere is completely lost.

 

Today, that's not good. In 5 years, might be a "who cares"?

 

Is it me fellas, or did Kakko seem to have more speed in junior? Not so much this year, but last season, didn't he always seem to be chasing the play? I'm not sure if it's his foot speed, or his "burst". It's like he seemed to have no anticipation of the play, or wasn't anticipating the acceptance of the puck.

 

He's got 2 goals this year, and both were good finishes; one off nice a pass, and the other going hard to the net. The latter is the value I see for Kakko. He's 6' 3" and only 200 lbs right now, but he's still a baby. This kid could very well turn into the power forward we miss by playing Kreider. If Kakko could bulk up a little, he may just fit the bill down the road in a few seasons. He's got super hands, and moves better than average for a "power type Forward". He simply lacks the weight/muscle, but that can be acquired...(just gotta slip a few 'roids in his OJ!!) :rofl: Of course we would need to have the rest of the team shoot the damn puck at the net, instead of trying make the 11 o' clock highlight reel with all those extra damn passes.

 

Kreider is what he is...and I wasn't feeling that resigning of him last year, and I still don't. He's our next B.O.C., and I think Kreider should be the guy on the 3rd line. Shit, I'd rather have a player that gives Blackwell's effort on a nightly basis, than Kreider's shell of whatever the hell he's doing out there....looked like the fucking Ice Follies! LOL

[siddious]

Kakko is def quicker this season and I hope he gets even quicker in the next season or two. I don?t know if he?s going to be a power forward, he has the build for it but I don?t see him playing that game.

 

Laf is not a great skater and it shows. Kid need to work on his endurance too he looks slower as games go on.

 

 

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[Ozzy]

Kakko is def quicker this season and I hope he gets even quicker in the next season or two. I don’t know if he’s going to be a power forward, he has the build for it but I don’t see him playing that game.

 

Laf is not a great skater and it shows. Kid need to work on his endurance too he looks slower as games go on.

 

 

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Here's a scouting report I had on Laffy from a little over a year ago, Nashty: http://puckprose.com/2019/11/07/2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-alex-lafreniere-scouting-report/

 

Scouting Report

 

First, let’s look at Lafreni?re’s tendencies. One of the most common things he does is park himself right in front of the opposing goalie. This shows his understanding of his own size and strength to take away the other goalie’s vision while battling for that net-front presence.

 

Though Lafreni?re can certainly score, he has a pass-first mentality. He has a very good pass with the vision to find opponents that most wouldn’t. However, Lafreni?re also holds a very strong shot. It would help him in a big way if he utilized it more often.

 

Another observation I made is how Lafreni?re skates. He very rarely stops on a dime when needed. Lafreni?re tends to take wide turns to change direction, which slows him down in the flow of the game. The good news is that it can be coached out of him. Skating coaches in the NHL are more than capable of working on that with him.

 

Lafreni?re is very good with the puck and does an excellent job of finding the best option for a pass. However, when two or more opponents pressure him and take away most or all of the passing lanes, he seemingly hesitates and bails out on the play, turning the puck over.

 

He can get really complacent at times. When his team has the puck and is moving around smoothly, Lafreni?re gets comfortable with the pace and makes bad passes and bad reads. That could be a problem at the next level, though that can be adjusted with maturity and experience.

 

On the power play, Lafreni?re plays at the high point area, where he facilitates the power play. He likes to drift down to the circles to get to an empty area on the ice, looking for a one-timer, like Ovechkin or Steven Stamkos.

 

However, I think he is misused on the power play. As mentioned earlier, Lafreni?re loves getting in front of the opposing goalie and setting a screen, using his big frame. Why isn’t he placed in the same role on the powerplay though? With his skill, big frame and physical abilities, he is best suited for the net-front role. Maybe that will be adjusted as the season wears on.

 

Lafreni?re is a very good transitional player. He is quick when moving through the neutral zone and threading the needle on passes to gain offensive zone entry. However, when in the defensive zone, Lafreni?re tends to jump up ice too quickly. It works sometimes and often leads to dangerous scoring chances. However, most of the time, it leads to his team being outnumbered in the defensive zone.

 

To stay in the d-zone, there are times where Lafreni?re gets sucked into a battle from across the ice. He gets caught puck watching a lot. It is not as though this is a rare occasion either, as there are several moments in the game where he glides towards the puck and loses his positioning.

[siddious]

Pretty accurate though I can?t say I?ve seen laf get in front of the net once so far this season.

 

His skating and and will improve, I?m not concerned about it. Seems like both him and kakko we?re surprised by the speed in the NHL

 

 

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[Ozzy]

Pretty accurate though I can’t say I’ve seen laf get in front of the net once so far this season.

 

His skating and and will improve, I’m not concerned about it. Seems like both him and kakko we’re surprised by the speed in the NHL

 

 

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I thought that was rather close as well. I'd LOVE for him to get in front, but this team is too busy playing perimeter hockey right now for him to go in front. I think they gotta stop passing up good percentage opportunities, and get the puck to the net, then he'd get a chance to do his thing a little better, or at least get some net front experience. :thumbs:

[siddious]

I thought that was rather close as well. I'd LOVE for him to get in front, but this team is too busy playing perimeter hockey right now for him to go in front. I think they gotta stop passing up good percentage opportunities, and get the puck to the net, then he'd get a chance to do his thing a little better, or at least get some net front experience. :thumbs:

 

He will settle in. He looks like a rookie now - losing battles, unsure of himself, passing shots up. But it will take time. I?m more concerned with the vets and goaltending.

 

 

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[Ozzy]

He will settle in. He looks like a rookie now - losing battles, unsure of himself, passing shots up. But it will take time. I’m more concerned with the vets and goaltending.

 

 

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I agree with you, man! The guys I'm concerned about the most are Trouba and Kreider; Although Trouba looked very comfortable with K'Andre "the Giant" paired with him last night. Kreider is looking like the next B.O.C. (Buy Out Candidate).

 

I'm not even worried about the goaltending. I think a contending playoff team could snag a good goalie at the deadline cheaply that could take them all the way if he gets hot.

[Keirik]

We need to keep in mind how stupidly young this team is. Yes, we have two exceptional players in their primes w/Zib and Panarin, but the rest of the lineup can count their pubes on two hands. Doubly so when you go down the line of the mission-critical players for the long-term success of this franchise. Kakko and Lafreniere are just 19. Chytil and Miller just turned 21. Shesterkin is still adjusting to the NHL. Adam Fox is the exception to the rule right now, and goddamn, he seems to be beyond special.

 

We should expect some level of inconsistency - perhaps almost maddening inconsistency at times. We're seeing that - we did not play excellent hockey against Pittsburgh by any stretch, but we absolutely deserved better than 1 point from those games. What's upsetting is that the inconsistency is coming from players who should not be inconsistent. We should expect better from Kreider, Zib, Trouba, Strome, and to an extent Panarin. What's worse is that when you have half your top 6 playing with that kind of inconsistency, you're going to have a domino effect down the lineup with matchups - doubly so on the road.

 

I do agree about the age sort of. However, I think it’s also important to keep in mind that the third, fourth, and fifth youngest teams in the league are Columbus, Colorado, and Philadelphia. There is only so much of a leash we can give because of the age and have to start figuring out where is it we are going wrong from. The only things those other teams performing much better with their youth is are a better more experienced coach and or better leadership.

 

Experience doesn’t just mean you progress. It’s not a direct vertical graph. There needs to be positive experience. Personally I think playoffs is a must this year and I don’t understand why it’s not looked at as a must. At some point there has to be positive progression and experience and this team has been gifted a lot of boosters that should have catapulted progression a lot more than it has. We cannot regress this year and a fringe playoff team last year should be a playoff team this year, not toiling amid the bottom and flirting with lottery picks.

[siddious]

I agree with you, man! The guys I'm concerned about the most are Trouba and Kreider; Although Trouba looked very comfortable with K'Andre "the Giant" paired with him last night. Kreider is looking like the next B.O.C. (Buy Out Candidate).

 

I'm not even worried about the goaltending. I think a contending playoff team could snag a good goalie at the deadline cheaply that could take them all the way if he gets hot.

 

Hated the Trouba trade/signing when it happened. Can?t wait until he?s not a ranger. His defensive game is atrocious and he does nothing to forgive it (deangelo at least helps the offense). At this point it might be even irrational how much I dislike him as a player.

 

I think the goaltending will be fine in the long run. But it needs to return quick if they want any chance at the playoffs. Kreider isn?t doing anything he normally doesn?t do. He?s always been hot and cold. It was one of the major reasons people wanted to trade him at the deadline if I remember correctly.

 

 

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[Ozzy]

Hated the Trouba trade/signing when it happened. Can’t wait until he’s not a ranger. His defensive game is atrocious and he does nothing to forgive it (deangelo at least helps the offense). At this point it might be even irrational how much I dislike him as a player.

 

I think the goaltending will be fine in the long run. But it needs to return quick if they want any chance at the playoffs. Kreider isn’t doing anything he normally doesn’t do. He’s always been hot and cold. It was one of the major reasons people wanted to trade him at the deadline if I remember correctly.

 

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I was one of them, but that ship's sailed. For some reason Nashty, I think Trouba's gonna find his game with Miller. Yeah he whiffed on a few shots but they did shut Sid down pretty much and they were very effective against one of the games best. I just have a gut feeling about Trouba, and that he'll find his happy place here...I don't with Kreider, and I find it difficult to come to grips we're going to be paying $6.5 mil to a third liner that's Jeckyl and Hyde.

 

Let's see what happens over the next 5 games, because I said I'd give it 10....It's hard sticking to that though!! ;)

[siddious]

I was one of them, but that ship's sailed. For some reason Nashty, I think Trouba's gonna find his game with Miller. Yeah he whiffed on a few shots but they did shut Sid down pretty much and they were very effective against one of the games best. I just have a gut feeling about Trouba, and that he'll find his happy place here...I don't with Kreider, and I find it difficult to come to grips we're going to be paying $6.5 mil to a third liner that's Jeckyl and Hyde.

 

Let's see what happens over the next 5 games, because I said I'd give it 10....It's hard sticking to that though!! ;)

 

I hope you're right. I still root for the guy but I just havent seen anything I like. He goes for the physical play too often which usually puts him in a bad position. It wouldnt be so bad if his defensive timing and positioning was better but hes not his strong suit. On top of that he doesnt do much offensively.

 

Ill be the first to admit I was wrong if/when he gets better. Miller is a good partner for him for sure though, steady and sound.

[CBrowningPI]

I hope Quinn rewards PDG for his efforts every shift he's given. This team lacks identity, enthusiasm, emotion or whatever name you want to put on it. Quinn needs to get their attention somehow. Bench a vet for a period or two for doing the DuBois coast around. The young guys seeing the vets "conserving energy" or just playing good enough will rub off on the whole gang, with a few exceptions.