DeAngelo Reclamation Project: Close to Complete?

[lefty9]

If we are in this situation with a young roster ,so should every other team,every team should taking advantages other teams misfortunes

[Long live the King]

If we are in this situation with a young roster ,so should every other team,every team should taking advantages other teams misfortunes

 

I don't know what that means but Girardi, Staal, Hank, Smith, and Shatty were all signed before the rebuild started. Those contracts are creating any cap problems, and they are all done after next season.

[Sod16]

ADA is a good offensive defenseman and not very good defensively. Everyone agrees on that. I don't think there is an argument for either signing him without getting an idea of what he might bring in a trade or, on the other hand, simply putting him on the market and getting as much as can be had for him. The middle ground is sensible: acknowledge that he has both limitations and value for us, take a gander at what we might get for him, and then decide whether to sign him.

[Pete]

Not for nothing, but people say they shouldn't have signed Trouba because of ADA. Trouba is playing nearly 23 minutes a night against the opponent's top players. ADA Starts 57% of his shifts in the OZ compared to Trouba starting 59% of his shifts in the DZ. Despite those zone starts, ADA has only 6 more points at even strength. ADA gets :40 seconds more pp time per game, on the 1st unit, and has 2 more pp points. ADA has gotten better, but Trouba being here is what is enabling ADA's favorable deployment and even with that favorable deployment he's barely out producing Trouba.

 

Trade ADA for a young LW to replace Kreider, and save that money on D for Fox.

Not that they shouldn't have signed Trouba, but if they knew what they had in Fox, they probably don't need Trouba (not what it cost in picks and money).

 

And Frankly, this is just a really generous assessment for Trouba. You note the deployment, but is Troiuba successful in his role? He's -3 with a CFrel% of -1.3. ADA is +3 and CFrel% of +1.5. Trouba also has more GvA than ADA, which was shocking to me.

 

You note current point totals, but Trouba is pacing ~40 and ADA ~60. He's not "barely" outproducing Trouba.

 

You note PP time, but that looks like it's based on the year's average. Trouba started on the #1 PP unit and was removed from it. Since ADA's been on the #1 unit, Fox has more PPP than both Trouba and ADA. ADA has 8 PPP to Trouba 4, Fox has 10.

 

Point is that we paid Trouba $2-$3 million more than what he's being asked to do, and that's money we'll need later. Across the board other players are getting the time and zone starts because they're better offensive players by a pretty decent margin and Trouba isn't even a stand-out defensive player. And you can draw attention to Skjei and Hajek being his partner and there's something to that, but an $8 million D man should be stabilizing his partner, not using him as an excuse for his middling play.

 

TL;DR, Trouba isn't bad but he's also not $8 million + 1RD pick good.

[Long live the King]

Not that they shouldn't have signed Trouba, but if they knew what they had in Fox, they probably don't need Trouba (not what it cost in picks and money).

 

And Frankly, this is just a really generous assessment for Trouba. You note the deployment, but is Troiuba successful in his role? He's -3 with a CFrel% of -1.3. ADA is +3 and CFrel% of +1.5. Trouba also has more GvA than ADA, which was shocking to me.

 

You note current point totals, but Trouba is pacing ~40 and ADA ~60. He's not "barely" outproducing Trouba.

 

You note PP time, but that looks like it's based on the year's average. Trouba started on the #1 PP unit and was removed from it. Since ADA's been on the #1 unit, Fox has more PPP than both Trouba and ADA. ADA has 8 PPP to Trouba 4, Fox has 10.

 

Point is that we paid Trouba $2-$3 million more than what he's being asked to do, and that's money we'll need later. Across the board other players are getting the time and zone starts because they're better offensive players by a pretty decent margin and Trouba isn't even a stand-out defensive player. And you can draw attention to Skjei and Hajek being his partner and there's something to that, but an $8 million D man should be stabilizing his partner, not using him as an excuse for his middling play.

 

TL;DR, Trouba isn't bad but he's also not $8 million + 1RD pick good.

 

I guess my point was that, without Trouba, who's taking those match ups? Its either ADA, Fox, or Brendan Smith. Holy shit everyone complains about the D now, it'd be 10x worse without Trouba. I'm also willing to give Trouba more time to adjust to New York and a new system. My money is on a Rykov/Touba 1st pairing being very good next year. Had Rykov not been injured during camp, he'd be here now instead of Lindgren.

[Pete]

I guess my point was that, without Trouba, who's taking those match ups? Its either ADA, Fox, or Brendan Smith. Holy shit everyone complains about the D now, it'd be 10x worse without Trouba. I'm also willing to give Trouba more time to adjust to New York and a new system. My money is on a Rykov/Touba 1st pairing being very good next year. Had Rykov not been injured during camp, he'd be here now instead of Lindgren.

 

I don't necessarily diagree with you but you're paying a lot of money for a mediocre player.

 

You look a year down the line and see Rykov/Trouba and that's fine, but I look 3 years down the line and see that as a third pair, with Miller and Fox as the #1 pair. And that's the problem.

[BrooksBurner]

Not that they shouldn't have signed Trouba, but if they knew what they had in Fox, they probably don't need Trouba (not what it cost in picks and money).

 

And Frankly, this is just a really generous assessment for Trouba. You note the deployment, but is Troiuba successful in his role? He's -3 with a CFrel% of -1.3. ADA is +3 and CFrel% of +1.5. Trouba also has more GvA than ADA, which was shocking to me.

 

You note current point totals, but Trouba is pacing ~40 and ADA ~60. He's not "barely" outproducing Trouba.

 

You note PP time, but that looks like it's based on the year's average. Trouba started on the #1 PP unit and was removed from it. Since ADA's been on the #1 unit, Fox has more PPP than both Trouba and ADA. ADA has 8 PPP to Trouba 4, Fox has 10.

 

Point is that we paid Trouba $2-$3 million more than what he's being asked to do, and that's money we'll need later. Across the board other players are getting the time and zone starts because they're better offensive players by a pretty decent margin and Trouba isn't even a stand-out defensive player. And you can draw attention to Skjei and Hajek being his partner and there's something to that, but an $8 million D man should be stabilizing his partner, not using him as an excuse for his middling play.

 

TL;DR, Trouba isn't bad but he's also not $8 million + 1RD pick good.

 

Agreed with that currently. In 2-3 years as salaries continue to elevate, it'll have to be revisited. It was overpayment now with the hope that it turns into average or underpayment later.

 

I'm still trying to understand why trade protection was left off in the first year of the contract. That seems like an odd thing to have accepted from Trouba's side, essentially letting the Rangers have an "out" and, really, control over where he'd spend the last 6 years of his contract if they actually chose to trade him. I still wonder if there's something to that. Cap wise, it makes the most sense to trade Trouba and keep Fox/DeAngelo given how both have played, but the optics are horrible to sign a guy to a 7 year deal and trade him less than a year later. I don't think they'd ever do it, but at the same time, no trade protection on the first year was put in the contract for a reason.

[josh]

Trouba is a top pair dman, so I’m not worried about the salary. It’s overpaying the Smiths and Skjeis that come back to hurt you. Stay out of the danger zone!

[Long live the King]

I don't necessarily diagree with you but you're paying a lot of money for a mediocre player.

 

You look a year down the line and see Rykov/Trouba and that's fine, but I look 3 years down the line and see that as a third pair, with Miller and Fox as the #1 pair. And that's the problem.

 

That's fine because 3 years down the road when you have

 

Miller/Fox

Rykov/Trouba

Robertson/Lundkvist

 

half those dudes are on ELC's.

 

Seriously though at the end of the day ADA's best contribution to the Rangers is being flipped in a hockey trade for a young LW to replace Kreider next to Zib. Give me Roope Hintz (a Finn) to put with Zib and Kakko next year.

[Long live the King]

Agreed with that currently. In 2-3 years as salaries continue to elevate, it'll have to be revisited. It was overpayment now with the hope that it turns into average or underpayment later.

 

I'm still trying to understand why trade protection was left off in the first year of the contract. That seems like an odd thing to have accepted from Trouba's side, essentially letting the Rangers have an "out" and, really, control over where he'd spend the last 6 years of his contract if they actually chose to trade him. I still wonder if there's something to that. Cap wise, it makes the most sense to trade Trouba and keep Fox/DeAngelo given how both have played, but the optics are horrible to sign a guy to a 7 year deal and trade him less than a year later. I don't think they'd ever do it, but at the same time, no trade protection on the first year was put in the contract for a reason.

 

No, it doesn't make the most sense. They are asked to do completely different things and ADA and Fox would look much different if tasked with playing against the opponent's top line.

[Pete]

That's fine because 3 years down the road when you have

 

Miller/Fox

Rykov/Trouba

Robertson/Lundkvist

 

half those dudes are on ELC's.

 

Seriously though at the end of the day ADA's best contribution to the Rangers is being flipped in a hockey trade for a young LW to replace Kreider next to Zib. Give me Roope Hintz (a Finn) to put with Zib and Kakko next year.

You think that's the D we're going to have when competing for a Cup? I highly disagree.

 

No, it doesn't make the most sense. They are asked to do completely different things and ADA and Fox would look much different if tasked with playing against the opponent's top line.

 

They aren't being asked to do the same things, nor should they be. That said, ADA and Fox are doing what they're asked, and Trouba really isn't.

[Long live the King]

You think that's the D we're going to have when competing for a Cup? I highly disagree.

 

No, I, nor anyone else know how the D prospects are going to progress over the next 3 years.

 

They aren't being asked to do the same things, nor should they be. That said, ADA and Fox are doing what they're asked, and Trouba really isn't.

 

I agree they should be asked to do the same things, but without Trouba there one of them would.

[Pete]

Trouba is a top pair dman, so I’m not worried about the salary. It’s overpaying the Smiths and Skjeis that come back to hurt you. Stay out of the danger zone!

 

He's on our top pairing. He's not a top pairing D.

 

He is a danger zone contract.

[Pete]

No, I, nor anyone else know how the D prospects are going to progress over the next 3 years.

 

 

 

I agree they should be asked to do the same things, but without Trouba there one of them would.

 

I know your third pair will be rookies and half your first pair will be a rook or 2nd year player. So that's just highly unrealistic.

[Vodka Drunkenski]

You?re all naysayers, wait or is it yaysayers. H.F.

[josh]

He's on our top pairing. He's not a top pairing D.

 

He is a danger zone contract.

nah.

[Dunny]

That's fine because 3 years down the road when you have

 

Miller/Fox

Rykov/Trouba

Robertson/Lundkvist

 

half those dudes are on ELC's.

 

Seriously though at the end of the day ADA's best contribution to the Rangers is being flipped in a hockey trade for a young LW to replace Kreider next to Zib. Give me Roope Hintz (a Finn) to put with Zib and Kakko next year.

 

I see two proven commodities there and four lottery tickets.

 

Robertson, in particular, is playing like a 6th rounder at the moment.

[torontonyr]

We have an abundance of D prospects and ADA would net a decent return that would help bolster us where we're weak -- skilled wingers.

 

You have to give to get. It's that simple.

[Long live the King]

Guys, those "3 years from now" D pairs were a joke. No one knows how any of those kids will look in 3 years.

[Dunny]

We have an abundance of D prospects and ADA would net a decent return that would help bolster us where we're weak -- skilled wingers.

 

You have to give to get. It's that simple.

 

I'm fine with that when these guys start knocking down the door to get here. At this point we don't have a clue as to what any of them are.

[Pete]

Guys, those "3 years from now" D pairs were a joke. No one knows how any of those kids will look in 3 years.

 

All the more reason to keep ADA around. :)

[Long live the King]

I'm fine with that when these guys start knocking down the door to get here. At this point we don't have a clue as to what any of them are.

 

But they should have a clue to

 

Rykov/Trouba

Lindgren/Fox

Skjei or Staal/Keene

 

For next year.

 

I just don't see how you can have Trouba, ADA, and Fox making close to $20 million in a few years. Some of that $$$ needs to go to a guy on the left side.

[josh]

I'm fine with that when these guys start knocking down the door to get here. At this point we don't have a clue as to what any of them are.

 

fox exceeded my expectations so I assume all others will, as well

[BrooksBurner]

No, it doesn't make the most sense. They are asked to do completely different things and ADA and Fox would look much different if tasked with playing against the opponent's top line.

 

I think it does. I view Trouba's contract as a high risk zone just like I did for Skjei when he signed his and like I would for Kreider if the Rangers resign him. Trouba is a good player being paid somewhere in the very good realm, and only a couple mill shy of elite money. Don't get me wrong because I know the Rangers need a solid defender like Trouba. I like his game, but they really need it at 5-6M and not 8M. I think Fox will be a better top pairing defenseman than Trouba, and fairly soon. I don't want to pay a 2nd pairing defender 8M and I don't particularly want to lose DeAngelo over it either.

[LindG1000]

I'm fine with that when these guys start knocking down the door to get here. At this point we don't have a clue as to what any of them are.

 

Just throwing this around as a food for thought thing, but Lundkvist doesn't get us a - as an example - Roope Hintz or a Tyler Bertuzzi level player. ADA could.