Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Exact deal they need to avoid. Why the f would they overpay middle 6 forwards during a rebuild???? What do you pay 26 year old centers who score 25 goals? Who are the rangers rolling out as their centers next year? Is it just throw chytil in the deep end and hope he swims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Fatfrancesa, we don?t have to actually give an offersheet just threaten them by saying we will give him an offersheet but should we give Laine an offersheet it would be between $8,118,642 - $10,148,302 which would cost 2-1st Round picks, 1-2nd rd pick and 1-3rd Rd pick according to capfriendly.com. We would have to weigh the fact that Laine, a 20 yr old righthanded forward who was a 3rd overall pick and has already shown what he can to against men vs. what our scouting department can do with what, 2-1st Rd picks which will likely be in the 20?s (since an offersheet would come after this years draft and next year we will have a full year of Laine on our team). Laine as an 18 yr old had 64 pts, our last 2 1st Rd picks had 5 pts in 16 gms combined. As far as spending big money for a middle six forward, why?? We might as well put Chytil, Kravtsov or whomever we draft this year into that spot, throw them in the deep end?let?s just stop being a middling team who is good enough to make the playoffs but never good enough to win the cup. Spend the money on a superstar or don?t spend it at all. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Why would the picks be in the 20’s? Laine makes them a playoff team. How does a team with 1 reliable nhl center and maybe 2 decent nhl defenseman become a playoff team without addressing those issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 If we offersheet Laine. they would get 2-1st Rd picks, a 2nd and a 3rd from us. So it would be in the 20?s because we would have added Laine to our team. Laine added to our team would easily make us a playoff team so therefore they would receive that comp from us. That?s why I said we threaten them with an offersheet?they would much rather make a deal that would keep them competitive now then take draft picks that are not gonna help anytime soon. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 If we offersheet Laine. they would get 2-1st Rd picks, a 2nd and a 3rd from us. So it would be in the 20’s because we would have added Laine to our team. Laine added to our team would easily make us a playoff team so therefore they would receive that comp from us. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Haha. I give up are you watching this shit? This is not the nba. One player, not Mcdavid makes them a playoff team. Certainly not a one dimensional goal scorer who disappears for a month. Come on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I don?t know what team you?ve been watching but our team was in the playoff hunt up until 2weeks ago, clearly we are 1 or 2 players away from making the playoffs. Laine is a 20 yr old right handed forward who?s 6?3? and give us size and has scored 36, 44 & 29 goals( so far the year) in his 3 yrs. in the NHL. You can easily see that Laine on this team would have put us in the playoffs. But wait you rather pay a soon to be 27 year old who?s career best is 23 goals, 6 mil per than to spend the extra 3 mil on a 20 yr old who already has 109 career goals?your boy Dzingel only has 63 career goals btw. ?A 20 yr old is not killing the rebuild either?-he?d only be older than Chtyil and Andersson on our team. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I don’t know what team you’ve been watching but our team was in the playoff hunt up until 2weeks ago, clearly we are 1 or 2 players away from making the playoffs. Laine is a 20 yr old right handed forward who’s 6’3” and give us size and has scored 36, 44 & 29 goals( so far the year) in his 3 yrs. in the NHL. You can easily see that Laine on this team would have put us in the playoffs. But wait you rather pay a soon to be 27 year old who’s career best is 23 goals, 6 mil per than to spend the extra 3 mil on a 20 yr old who already has 109 career goals—year boy Dzingel only has 63 career goals btw. —A 20 yr old is not killing the rebuild either. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Haven’t really gotten into who I rather have. It’s not equal. A lot of picks to sign him. I really don’t want Dzingel I’m just answering the question of what another direction could be. One direction is do nothing. Or sign the big ticket guy or two. Or another is adding multiple veteran guys to shorter deals to help deepen the team. You’ve added another which is to offer sheet someone, laine. I would think Marner would be the better option if you went that route but this is your thing. All things equal I’d want Marner Karlsson Panarin Duchene Laine I don’t think Dzingel would even come up. Of course all things being equal means age, term, cap hit, injury history, compensation etc. all being the same. which of course it is not. But yet people still want to argue one player versus another when it isn’t that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 FatFrancesa, you are TOTALLY RIGHT, Marner should be 1st and foremost. I totally forgot he?s a RFA. I totally agree Marner first, Laine second as far as RFA. But I would put Panarin and Duchene ahead strictly because they would only cost money. So for me Panarin, Duchene, Marner then Laine as far as forwards go. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Dzingel 4-5 years at $5-6. If it’s more than you pass it up. It maybe. Just curious what does your lineup look like signing panarin? Is it just him into this dumpster fire? Without doing anything else, and just adding Panarin, I don't see it as a dumpster fire. I would see it as a young team capable of surprising next year, but most likely not until the following year when more defensive changes could be made and our young forwards get another year under their belt. Based on the cap being raised to 83m, the Rangers would have about 21m of space to work with. Let's assume: - Panarin at 11m. - Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Lemieux, Pionk at 2 year deals averaging ~2.75m per year = 11m total. - Smith buried to save 1.075m against the cap. This leaves you up against the cap. It's not necessarily what I would do, since I don't particularly want to bring Pionk back. Panarin Zibanejad Buchnevich Kreider Chytil Kravtsov Lemieux Strome Namestnikov Fast Howden Vesey Andersson Skjei DeAngelo Staal Shattenkirk Hajek Pionk The top 6 forwards do not need to dominate right away. After 1 year, maybe 2, is when you start expecting the kind of production that will give you the playoffs. But there could be some surprises there that could accelerate that. I think this is a lot to ask of Kravtsov, but I think he'll earn a spot with the team. It may be more realistic he starts out on the 3rd or 4th lines, but you get the idea. From here there are a bunch of things you can do. Don't re-sign Pionk. Trade Namestnikov/Strome. You can find money to get defensive help like you've suggested earlier (Stralman). EK is possible, but it does require some good maneuvering to make the space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I’ll pass on all but maybe use your idea in two or three years and offer sheet a young star when the rangers are a stronger team and he cupboards are stocked after two or three more years of picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 But like you’ve illustrated players will be available if you have cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Don't forget Point when it comes to offer sheets. I would have a tough time choosing between him and Marner. I would probably lean towards Point personally. Either way, I'd much rather have Panarin for nothing but money than any of the available RFAs when it costs that much in future draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Without doing anything else, and just adding Panarin, I don't see it as a dumpster fire. I would see it as a young team capable of surprising next year, but most likely not until the following year when more defensive changes could be made and our young forwards get another year under their belt. Based on the cap being raised to 83m, the Rangers would have about 21m of space to work with. Let's assume: - Panarin at 11m. - Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Lemieux, Pionk at 2 year deals averaging ~2.75m per year = 11m total. - Smith buried to save 1.075m against the cap. This leaves you up against the cap. It's not necessarily what I would do, since I don't particularly want to bring Pionk back. Panarin Zibanejad Buchnevich Kreider Chytil Kravtsov Lemieux Strome Namestnikov Fast Howden Vesey Andersson Skjei DeAngelo Staal Shattenkirk Hajek Pionk The top 6 forwards do not need to dominate right away. After 1 year, maybe 2, is when you start expecting the kind of production that will give you the playoffs. But there could be some surprises there that could accelerate that. I think this is a lot to ask of Kravtsov, but I think he'll earn a spot with the team. It may be more realistic he starts out on the 3rd or 4th lines, but you get the idea. From here there are a bunch of things you can do. Don't re-sign Pionk. Trade Namestnikov/Strome. You can find money to get defensive help like you've suggested earlier (Stralman). EK is possible, but it does require some good maneuvering to make the space. I see where you are coming from here. However it is not realistic at all to think that second line can handle those minutes and matchups without the possibility of destroying those kids. They are humans. There are pressures. They are literally kids. They have to be insulated. Has chytil even grown this year as a player? I’m not so sure. It’s a huge ask of them. I know you take the view that who cares if they struggle as long as they get the time poof the following year they will have developed. That’s not true. I don’t know if I’d even put chytil at centr. And worse to all of this is that the centers after him are kids too. Both who have struggled and would not fair well in the top 6 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Also you’re defense is the same dumpster fire as this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I see where you are coming from here. However it is not realistic at all to think that second line can handle those minutes and matchups without the possibility of destroying those kids. They are humans. There are pressures. They are literally kids. They have to be insulated. Has chytil even grown this year as a player? I’m not so sure. It’s a huge ask of them. I know you take the view that who cares if they struggle as long as they get the time poof the following year they will have developed. That’s not true. I don’t know if I’d even put chytil at centr. And worse to all of this is that the centers after him are kids too. Both who have struggled and would not fair well in the top 6 next year. You can move them down the lineup and others up as needed. None of those lines are really set in stone. They never are. Also you’re defense is the same dumpster fire as this year I feel like you're looking at this like it has to be a 1 year fix or it's a waste to sign Panarin. That's not how it would work. The first year is not when you should expect to see results, and that's because of the defense and the young age of a good portion of the forward group. Anyway, it isn't the same defense. Hajek is new and I even mentioned I would not re-sign Pionk as I would rather go after someone a lot more stable in their own zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Point?s size kind of, not bothers me so much as concerns me. Will he hold up at 5?10? 166 lbs. where as Marner is 6?0? 175 lbs. and Laine at 6?3? 205lbs. Plus we also have to look at age Point is 23, Marner is 21 and Laine is 20. And Laine and Marner are 1st line players Point is on 2nd line behind Stamkos. So, for me, I agree with FatFancesa and go Marner 1, Laine 2, and go Point 3. But that?s me. But then again they are all pretty close may have to come down to who?s team is closest to the cap ceiling because that me be the guy we steal. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Come to think of it, I think the guy who we can get the easiest and cheapest is the guy we should threaten to offersheet?and scare their respective team into a trade to get. Thanks my final answer. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 FatFrancesa, you are right about the defense being a dumpster fire but there?s nothing we can do about that other than to go after Karlsson. At least we know Karlsson and Claesson as a 1st pair defense works. That would take a lot of pressure off the rest of the defense. Karlsson/Claesson. Skjei/Shattenkirk. Hajek/Staal. Smith & Lindgren as the extras, but that?s more because Staal & Smith will be hard to deal and DeAngelo has been so much of a headache we will deal him. But if we are not able to bring in Karlsson, we are screwed. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Why is Karlsson the only solution there? There are good defenseman that are ufas. They may not be sexy but they would stabilize the group. Besides there are guys coming you just need to buy some time until then. I don’t get why the only fixes has to be the best most expensive guy available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Why is Karlsson the only solution there? There are good defenseman that are ufas. They may not be sexy but they would stabilize the group. Besides there are guys coming you just need to buy some time until then. I don’t get why the only fixes has to be the best most expensive guy available? Man I dunno...it's thin after EK. Stralman is a good find for a couple of years. The list is rough: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2020/caphit/all/defense/ufa&hide=clauses,salary,caphit,skater-stats,goalie-stats It may have to be via trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.wiskers Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 There really isn?t anyone in the UFA besides Karlsson. Going the offersheet route you could look at a lot of options like Ceci, Trouba, Butcher, Murray, Provorov, Werenski, Sanhiem etc... but looking at that list stat wise it makes Pionk & DeAngelo look very good for that matter too, so.....But UFA for me only Karlsson looks enticing. Thanks for the on going conversation guys, otherwise this would have been a very uneventful Saturday night for me, I mean a 5-2 loss, it?s depressing, granted I want the losses because it helps our draft but it really would have been a shitty Saturday without this conversation. Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I just think that the thought that whomever they pick up has to be a long term solution is wrong. I get it but it’s not realistic. Stralman and chiarot would be good stabilizing players on the back end. Could there be a better guy than stralman to pair Hajek up with to help him develop? So stralman won’t be here in 5 years, do what. He can have an impact for the time he is here. Tyler Myers is another guy. Probably to expensive and to much term for my liking but he’d be the rangers best defenseman immediately. For the lineups that were posted the one I posted is a much better team than the one with panarin. I know I’m a little biased to my roster but seriously? Would love to see some other lineups especially from those promoting the panarin idea. Rangers have holes at center and defense, the position in which good teams are built. Not sure who signing a wing fills those holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I just think that the thought that whomever they pick up has to be a long term solution is wrong. I get it but it’s not realistic. Stralman and chiarot would be good stabilizing players on the back end. Could there be a better guy than stralman to pair Hajek up with to help him develop? So stralman won’t be here in 5 years, do what. He can have an impact for the time he is here. Tyler Myers is another guy. Probably to expensive and to much term for my liking but he’d be the rangers best defenseman immediately. For the lineups that were posted the one I posted is a much better team than the one with panarin. I know I’m a little biased to my roster but seriously? Would love to see some other lineups especially from those promoting the panarin idea. Rangers have holes at center and defense, the position in which good teams are built. Not sure who signing a wing fills those holes. I think defensively someone like Stralman is perfectly fine to add to the roster. I'm good with stabilizing the defense on short term deals for the next couple of years until all of our bloated defensemen contracts expire. In regards to the roster, Panarin is a better add than Dzingel and Stralman. Panarin and Stralman is an even better add than Dzingel and Stralman (I mentioned how to move money for Stralman). That's the difference between your roster and the one I put up. Why do you think Dzingel makes this a better team than Panarin? Also, you put Chytil and Kravtsov on your 2nd line and then in response to my roster you talk about the risk of having Chytil and Kravtsov on the 2nd line and destroying the kids. Bias much? And yet again, you skirt past the fact that it's not about next year. Why don't you give me your planned roster 1-2 years from now? You roster will still be stuck with middle/bottom 6 players, mine will have a legitimate top line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Stralman isn't the same player anymore. I'm not sure I'd have any interest there anymore. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Stralman isn't the same player anymore. I'm not sure I'd have any interest there anymore. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk He's better than Pionk lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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