torontonyr Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I don't buy the whole "alienating players" idea. They sent a player they just signed to the AHL and are keeping him there while the likes of Pionk and Gilmour play. I'm not sure Smith is a marquee UFA nor did he ever take a discount to be here. Moreover, they gave him nearly a year to figure this out despite not having either of those qualities. I stand by what I said tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I'm not sure Smith is a marquee UFA nor did he ever take a discount to be here. Moreover, they gave him nearly a year to figure this out despite not having either of those qualities. I stand by what I said tbh. It's hard to say whether it influences other FAs or not but it's hard to imagine that they wouldn't consider that when signing. It would be the same if the Rangers traded Vesey or Hayes in just a year or two. College FAs would see that and think about it before signing in NY. Whether there's a tangible consequence to burying a first-year signee is doubtful. But it's a bad optic, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I don't buy the whole "alienating players" idea. They sent a player they just signed to the AHL and are keeping him there while the likes of Pionk and Gilmour play. That would be a good point had everyone around the league not been privy to his performance this year. But, if they plan on sucking for the foreseeable future they could simply make Shattenkirk aware of that and ask what he'd like to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 Most free agents have high enough opinions of their own abilities that they wouldn't worry about flopping and being sent to the minors. I am more concerned that the Stepan and McDonagh trades promote a perception that this team will tend to get rid of a 27 year old player if he is due for a pricey contract extension or has a no trade clause becoming effective. Hayes is far enough away from his initial signing that collegians will probably not look at anything that happens to him hereinafter as particularly relevant, but a poor experience here for Vesey might have some impact on their thinking. I'll be curious to see the Smith that shows up at camp. Will he come in highly motivated, in great shape with something to prove, or will whatever personal or personality issues lead to what we saw last September linger. I would caution regarding a rush to judgment in this regard. If he seems changed for the better the first two weeks, many will declare that there is a New Inspiring Brendan Smith, while if he's guilty of a couple of turnovers in an preseason game, others will declare him unredeemable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 That would be a good point had everyone around the league not been privy to his performance this year. But, if they plan on sucking for the foreseeable future they could simply make Shattenkirk aware of that and ask what he'd like to do. I think that's the only way you can realistically go about it. You dont want to push away top end talent who'd be willing to stick through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 I'm not sure Smith is a marquee UFA nor did he ever take a discount to be here. Moreover, they gave him nearly a year to figure this out despite not having either of those qualities. I stand by what I said tbh. OK, well go back and look at the marquee free agents we've signed here over the past few years, and then look at the players who ask to come here (Nash/MSL/Shatty). Drury: buyout Gomez: Traded Shanahan: Run off the team by Renney Redden: Bought out Richards: Bought out Who am I forgetting? I actually don't care if UFA's come here. I'd rather not be a destination for players on the back 9 of their careers. That might be the only way to build this team properly, scare "marquee" players ~30 away. New York will never have trouble attracting players, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 OK, well go back and look at the marquee free agents we've signed here over the past few years, and then look at the players who ask to come here (Nash/MSL/Shatty). Drury: buyout Gomez: Traded Shanahan: Run off the team by Renney Redden: Bought out Richards: Bought out Who am I forgetting? I actually don't care if UFA's come here. I'd rather not be a destination for players on the back 9 of their careers. That might be the only way to build this team properly, scare "marquee" players ~30 away. New York will never have trouble attracting players, IMO. Drury - became captain and played for us for several years until his body deteriorated. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Gomez - played for us for 2 years until being traded. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Redden - Played for us for 2 years until being burried. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Richards - Played with us for several years. Fought in many playoff wars. Nearly won a cup with us. Was signed to a market contract which *may* be considered a hometown discount. Was near the end of his career and was (likely) promised a post-hockey career with the organization. Nobody forgotten. None of them are a 1 year contract prime age player who played injured for you most of the season on a below market value contract at a hometown discount. All of them had opportunities to sink, swim or hang themselves. Shattenkirk hasn't even been given that, has been a good soldier, took less at UFA to play with you, and you trade him? The fact you can't see it being different seems like you're Pete'ing to Pete for Pete's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Drury - became captain and played for us for several years until his body deteriorated. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Gomez - played for us for 2 years until being traded. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Redden - Played for us for 2 years until being burried. Was signed to a massive contract that nobody would call a (hometown) discount. Richards - Played with us for several years. Fought in many playoff wars. Nearly won a cup with us. Was signed to a market contract which *may* be considered a hometown discount. Was near the end of his career and was (likely) promised a post-hockey career with the organization.And they all ended bought out or traded. So why can't we trade Shattenkirk? Nobody forgotten. None of them are a 1 year contract prime age player who played injured for you most of the season on a below market value contract at a hometown discount. All of them had opportunities to sink, swim or hang themselves. Shattenkirk hasn't even been given that, has been a good soldier, took less at UFA to play with you, and you trade him? #1 is that he's not very good, and #2 is that maybe he doesn't want to wait 2-3 years for the team to be competitive? BTW, those are just 2 reasons to explore trading him. I'm not suggesting he has to be traded. I'm simply saying that trading his doesn't scare anyone away. We trade, buy out and waive UFA players all the time. They still keep coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Shattenkirk will be given every chance to stay here. If his play doesn’t improve he will untradeable anyway. Regardless I don’t think any player is going to hold it against the rangers if he continues to suck and they move on from him. It is common knowledge amongst players and anybody who cares to pay attention to the players that the rangers treat their players top notch. The rangers are constantly referred to as a first class organization. That is not a misquote from every former player who’s played here. Playing time and other factors can always come into play but the rangers will never be accused of mistreating their players. If anything they may get accused of pampering them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torontonyr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 And they all ended bought out or traded. So why can't we trade Shattenkirk? #1 is that he's not very good, and #2 is that maybe he doesn't want to wait 2-3 years for the team to be competitive? BTW, those are just 2 reasons to explore trading him. I'm not suggesting he has to be traded. I'm simply saying that trading his doesn't scare anyone away. We trade, buy out and waive UFA players all the time. They still keep coming. Reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Reading comprehension.Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Honestly, what is JT expected to get on this next contract? I’ve had this discussion with friends and we can’t out a number on it? 10 million? 12 million? What’s reasonable per year for JT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 10,5x7 years with full NMC the first 5 years is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosenvold Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 10,5x7 years with full NMC the first 5 years is my guess. I say go for it. He fits perfectly with a quick rebuild and the needs of the Rangers. Where else are we gonna find a true 1C to lead the rebuilt Rangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveByRichter35 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I don't see it happening but it would be great it Tavares leads Snow into thinking there is no worry about him resigning with the Islanders, and then come July 1st he thanks Snow for wasting his career by never getting him the necessary parts to help him and then signs with us as a fuck you to Garth Snow, thus, signing Snow's pink slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 JT is a superstar who has perennially finished in the top ten in scoring. Oh wait a minute, he has finished in the top 10... once (2014-15). Maybe he's undeniably a star player but not worth something close to what McDavid is being paid. And what the heck will will he be in the last three (or maybe last five) years of a ten year contract? I'll be curious to see how overheated the market gets if he goes UFA. I'll also be interested to see if the Islanders award him with a McDavid contract in a desperate effort to maintain credibility as a franchise and end up with a player who, however good, lacks real superstar status. Both healthy, I'd take Karlsson over JT in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 JT is a superstar who has perennially finished in the top ten in scoring. Oh wait a minute, he has finished in the top 10... once (2014-15). Maybe he's undeniably a star player but not worth something close to what McDavid is being paid. And what the heck will will he be in the last three (or maybe last five) years of a ten year contract? I'll be curious to see how overheated the market gets if he goes UFA. I'll also be interested to see if the Islanders award him with a McDavid contract in a desperate effort to maintain credibility as a franchise and end up with a player who, however good, lacks real superstar status. Both healthy, I'd take Karlsson over JT in a flash. He's averaged almost a ppg on a shitty team over the last 4 seasons, ofcourse he is a superstar. He's undeniably a top 10 center, you could argue he is a top 5 aswell. JT over any D-man, easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryBiv Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 In answer to the OP, he would be a bigger fool to sign with the Rangers. And vice versa. Just sign with any of his hometown Canada teams (probably Canadians) and call it a career. When Ralph Kiner wanted a raise, Branch Rickey said; "no, son......we could've finished in last place without you". Kind of relevant here. If the Rangers go ahead and overpay for Taveras, does that really help the rebuild? Or, would it be a promotions move while NOT really going full throttle with the original plan? He would instantly bring us back to mediocrity, with an aging goalie and a horrible defense. Is that really that much different from where he is leaving? Stay away John, for the good of both parties. Simply put......you don't put the new roof on, until you have laid the groundwork and the 4 solid walls. You add the roof (John or the likes) AFTER the team is pretty much constructed. Imo. It would be very different than when we added Nasher. At least Nasher was being brought into an "already PO bound team and was supposed to be the missing piece", Taveras wouldn't be that. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Honestly, what is JT expected to get on this next contract? I?ve had this discussion with friends and we can?t out a number on it? 10 million? 12 million? What?s reasonable per year for JT? Before this year I would have thought that, if he wanted term, it was going to be $9.5-10. But with his production this year, he's going to get up around 12. 8x$12, something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 In answer to the OP, he would be a bigger fool to sign with the Rangers. And vice versa. Just sign with any of his hometown Canada teams (probably Canadians) and call it a career. When Ralph Kiner wanted a raise, Branch Rickey said; "no, son......we could've finished in last place without you". Kind of relevant here. If the Rangers go ahead and overpay for Taveras, does that really help the rebuild? Or, would it be a promotions move while NOT really going full throttle with the original plan? He would instantly bring us back to mediocrity, with an aging goalie and a horrible defense. Is that really that much different from where he is leaving? Stay away John, for the good of both parties. Simply put......you don't put the new roof on, until you have laid the groundwork and the 4 solid walls. You add the roof (John or the likes) AFTER the team is pretty much constructed. Imo.It would be very different than when we added Nasher. At least Nasher was being brought into an "already PO bound team and was supposed to be the missing piece", Taveras wouldn't be that. Just saying. Or you could put it the other way. You get the most important piece (groundwork in a house, a legit #1C on a hockey team) first, and then get the rest along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 He's not worth 12/year. I don't see many teams with the ability to pay 12/year even if they want to. What team has both the space and the finances to do this? 10/year for 8 years is probably insane, too, but I would go that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 He's not worth 12/year. I don't see many teams with the ability to pay 12/year even if they want to. What team has both the space and the finances to do this? 10/year for 8 years is probably insane, too, but I would go that high. Almost any team can make space, especially if the cap goes up to $80m. I don't think he's worth it, but someone will. He'll a 28 year old PPG center. With things as they are right now, there are only 3 teams in the league who couldn't afford $12m next year at an $80m cap (LAK, Tampa, PIT). That doesn't mean it's realistic for 28 teams to make a pitch, but there will be a lot of teams who can give the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Sure, but 2/3 of the teams make no sense at all. He's not going to: Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit, Dallas, Tampa, Nashville, Ottawa, LA, Anaheim, Columbus, Edmonton, Carolina, Arizona, Vegas, Buffalo, Calgary There's another few that he's almost certainly not going to: Montreal, Winnipeg, Vancouver What does that leave? NYR NJD NYI Leafs Blues Sharks Avs I'm missing a couple somewhere, but I like those odds for the NYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Sure, but 2/3 of the teams make no sense at all. He's not going to: Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit, Dallas, Tampa, Nashville, Ottawa, LA, Anaheim, Columbus, Edmonton, Carolina, Arizona, Vegas, Buffalo, Calgary There's another few that he's almost certainly not going to: Montreal, Winnipeg, Vancouver What does that leave? NYR NJD NYI Leafs Blues Sharks Avs I'm missing a couple somewhere, but I like those odds for the NYR. Why are you ruling out some of these teams? I think the smartest place for him to go is Dallas, and I don't see why he wouldn't. I think Boston, Detroit and Vegas also make a ton of sense. Who knows how he feels about living in specific places like Carolina, Buffalo or Columbus, but it seems like you're kind of arbitrarily eliminating teams. Just in the case of Dallas, given an $80m cap, they can take on a $12m salary next year and give Seguin $11m the following year without having to do much (I don't think any) maneuvering at all, and a Spezza buyout saves you $5m. They'd be a bit top heavy, but that wins in this league. However you split them, Seguin-Benn-Tavares-Radulov gives you the best top-6 in the league and I don't think it's even close. But even still, the 7 teams you have listed is plenty to start a bidding war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 They aren't putting 23 million in to two centers as well as paying Jamie Benn and Radulov. He's not going to Dallas. That would leave them with nothing on the blueline. I stand by the teams I noted. Unless he really doesn't give a fuck about winning, or the teams are interested in a 10 million dollar 2C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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