paddynyc Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 If the Rangers have another dismal performance tonight, good chance AV gets the boot. Most likely, the staff stays (late in the season), and Ruff takes over. If that happens, it will be Ruff's offseason. If they were to fire AV then the new coach would have a fews days to implement his system with all the time off. Would it be Ruff or Arniel who has been with the team longer and knows the players better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY Chief Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 ... by outside the box I don?t mean Mark Messier. Why do many feel that way? I'm asking honestly because I really don't know much about his potential coaching talent. To me and I'm sure many others it would definitely be a great sentimental move. And if he was successful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Alaire stays! Guy is gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Why do many feel that way? I'm asking honestly because I really don't know much about his potential coaching talent. To me and I'm sure many others it would definitely be a great sentimental move. And if he was successful... He could have but he's essentially refused to pay his dues. I know the family a bit and if he's anything like the rest of the Messiers there's no fucking way he's smart enough to walk in to a GM position in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Why do many feel that way? I'm asking honestly because I really don't know much about his potential coaching talent. To me and I'm sure many others it would definitely be a great sentimental move. And if he was successful... That' why. It's a sentimental move and nothing else. He has no experience. The Rangers as a whole need to stop living in 1994. It's pathetic at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 That's like holding up a big sign saying "I'VE NEVER PLAYED HOCKEY BEFORE!" That's on the players, not the coach. Do you really think the coaches are in the lockerroom telling them to NOT shoot and to just pass around? Actually Josh, It's on Arniel. He's the power play guy. They play HIS system variation of the "umbrella". It's a system that worked for the old Sabres team back when Gil Perreault and Danny Gare played with a certain 50 goal scorer, Rick Martin. It's based on quick movement of the puck to hit an off wing with a pass, for a high percentage shot, catching a goalie moving or not in position. The problem with this is that: A. The Rangers don't have a Rick Martin B. The Rangers don't have a Gil Perreault C. The Current NHL is quicker, and can defend this style, and quicker defenders deflect passes much better than 1977 D. Goalies move way faster and see the puck easier with this style Arniel puts a man in front to try and alleviate that, but all the other teams do is put quick pressure on the puck carrier/holder in the zone and give them nowhere to pass and eventually they'll cough it up...or it gets deflected out of the zone. But the fact is the system they have in place is the coach's responsibility...I didn't play pro hockey man, but one thing I'll say is this: When you shy away from playing the system the coach implements, your ass makes a sucking noise when you get up, from being sat so long! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Actually Josh, It's on Arniel. He's the power play guy. They play HIS system variation of the "umbrella". It's a system that worked for the old Sabres team back when Gil Perreault and Danny Gare played with a certain 50 goal scorer, Rick Martin. It's based on quick movement of the puck to hit an off wing with a pass, for a high percentage shot, catching a goalie moving or not in position. The problem with this is that: A. The Rangers don't have a Rick Martin B. The Rangers don't have a Gil Perreault C. The Current NHL is quicker, and can defend this style, and quicker defenders deflect passes much better than 1977 D. Goalies move way faster and see the puck easier with this style Arniel puts a man in front to try and alleviate that, but all the other teams do is put quick pressure on the puck carrier/holder in the zone and give them nowhere to pass and eventually they'll cough it up...or it gets deflected out of the zone. But the fact is the system they have in place is the coach's responsibility...I didn't play pro hockey man, but one thing I'll say is this: When you shy away from playing the system the coach implements, your ass makes a sucking noise when you get up, from being sat so long! ;) While neither has had a lot of PP time, it's refreshing to see Lettieri and D'Angelo to get the puck and let her rip forthwith. Nobody else does that on the NYR. Get the sense teams have seen enough of the Rangers on tape generally in the offensive zone prioritize setting things up rather than simply shooting and hoping to create quick chaos.And especially on the PP you give defenders and goalies even more of chance to get set. Problem with all the passing is not only does either team know it's coming, with each pass there's a greater chance for a turnover.Whether it's a errant pass or a breaking up by defenders,each pass increases the chance of things going bad. Players are too fast. For a team based on speed, doesn't appear the NYR's coaches grasp this.No NHL team has that big slow lunk of a defenseman any more. Most every defenseman is instead a good skater with decent stick skills instead.If that big ass defenseman was still the model McIlrath gets as 12+ year career and his number retired instead of getting passed around like a social disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 While neither has had a lot of PP time, it's refreshing to see Lettieri and D'Angelo to get the puck and let her rip forthwith. Nobody else does that on the NYR. YUP...refreshing is the word!!! Those kids have nothing to lose and aren't probably expected to "know" the System...so they just let 'er rip....especially Lettieri. I love that fucking kid! I hope this jack off doesn't ruin him with his benching bullshit. They really should unload this rocket scientist after we go 1-7-2 over the next 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 How about this option for a coach... Jaromir Jagr He did a great job coaching some young guys after the one lockout. Probably saw more growth from young guys that season than any other season. Had a ton of overachievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Actually Josh, It's on Arniel. He's the power play guy. They play HIS system variation of the "umbrella". It's a system that worked for the old Sabres team back when Gil Perreault and Danny Gare played with a certain 50 goal scorer, Rick Martin. It's based on quick movement of the puck to hit an off wing with a pass, for a high percentage shot, catching a goalie moving or not in position. Quick correction on this one: (Sorry, getting old has it's quirks!) Rene Robert was the third member of the French Connection line.....Danny Gare played the second unit with Don Luce and Craig Ramsay.....ahhhh, the old Aud in Buffalo!!! what a dump! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Rumors that Joel Quinnville might be in trouble in Chicago. Forgot about this thread, missed this post. Missed a conversation about the great Gilbert Perreault who'd combine skating, stick-handling and passing the way Scorcese edited the Godfather. After the Hawks and Rangers miss the playoffs Joey Q comes here as the best available experienced coach. I like the more progressive Keefe as an option, Phil suggested. Keenan sucks. Little known fact. We were lucky Keenan did not get his way with Neil Smith on trading Zubov for some Keenan goon. Forget who, at the moment. He threw a shit fit in Neil's office, when Smith drew the line. Keenan also wanted Kovalev traded, which caused issues. He also forced Smith to trade Amonte for Noonan and Matteau. Neil mentioned that he hated that he was forced to make that trade. Left to his own devices, Keenan could kill a team quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Kovalev was an idiot. I've heard him described as, and I quote: "The dumbest man I've ever seen in or out of hockey" I also heard some great stories about Healey and Keenan, mostly how Healey didn't give a shit and just laid in to Keenan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddynyc Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Forgot about this thread, missed this post. Missed a conversation about the great Gilbert Perreault who'd combine skating, stick-handling and passing the way Scorcese edited the Godfather. After the Hawks and Rangers miss the playoffs Joey Q comes here as the best available experienced coach. I like the more progressive Keefe as an option, Phil suggested. Keenan sucks. Little known fact. We were lucky Keenan did not get his way with Neil Smith on trading Zubov for some Keenan goon. Forget who, at the moment. He threw a shit fit in Neil's office, when Smith drew the line. Keenan also wanted Kovalev traded, which caused issues. He also forced Smith to trade Amonte for Noonan and Matteau. Neil mentioned that he hated that he was forced to make that trade. Left to his own devices, Keenan could kill a team quick. Or his own career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty9 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Forgot about this thread, missed this post. Missed a conversation about the great Gilbert Perreault who'd combine skating, stick-handling and passing the way Scorcese edited the Godfather. After the Hawks and Rangers miss the playoffs Joey Q comes here as the best available experienced coach. I like the more progressive Keefe as an option, Phil suggested. Keenan sucks. Little known fact. We were lucky Keenan did not get his way with Neil Smith on trading Zubov for some Keenan goon. Forget who, at the moment. He threw a shit fit in Neil's office, when Smith drew the line. Keenan also wanted Kovalev traded, which caused issues. He also forced Smith to trade Amonte for Noonan and Matteau. Neil mentioned that he hated that he was forced to make that trade. Left to his own devices, Keenan could kill a team quick.so did i,we gave those young players away,fucking rangers system,i know we won the cup,we would of won no matter what ,but we gambled and gave up the future, and sucked for quite a few years, thats just the rangers way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 so did i,we gave those young players away,fucking rangers system,i know we won the cup,we would of won no matter what ,but we gambled and gave up the future, and sucked for quite a few years, thats just the rangers way Yeah, the trades that started in the 90s that jettisoned the talent Craig Patrick drafted for big name older players were disgusting. I also believe we would have won the Cup (maybe more than 1) had we valued our own talent, self-scouted better and were flat-out smarter. The idiocy started with trading Tomas Sandstrom and Tony Granato for partyboy Bernie Nichols. We all came to live with that trade once the team realized what they did and shipped Bernie out for Messier. Unfortunately Messier was coming to NY, regardless. Yet, in 93 asset madness kicked-in, starting with trading Kevin Miller for no damn reason. Then using Doug Weight to get Esa, when Edmonton would have taken less. Next was Beezer! Then Patrick and Turcotte. Capped off by the Amonte trade, which also saw Todd Marchant and Gartner (likely a Messier influenced deal) traded the same day in other massive overpays. Let's not forget that offseason, Zubov, one of the key pieces to winning the Cup, was sent to the Pens. For those too young, it'd sorta be the equivalent of Winnipeg trading Ehlers, Laine, Scheifele, Morrissey and Trouba for Marleau, Thornton, Boumeister, Hartnell and Sharp. No cap implications back then, but still it's a jumbo mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giacomin Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 BTW, I recognize a few of the pieces we got back played an important role in winning that awesome year. However, in the rush to either get rid of players Keenan did not like or often bring in a vet we were obsessed with, the other team raked us over the coals. Also, had we not made some of the trades earlier, guys like Miller, Mullen and Turcotte may have been the assets used to acquire MacTavish or Esa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Yeah, the trades that started in the 90s that jettisoned the talent Craig Patrick drafted for big name older players were disgusting. I also believe we would have won the Cup (maybe more than 1) had we valued our own talent, self-scouted better and were flat-out smarter. The idiocy started with trading Tomas Sandstrom and Tony Granato for partyboy Bernie Nichols. We all came to live with that trade once the team realized what they did and shipped Bernie out for Messier. Unfortunately Messier was coming to NY, regardless. Yet, in 93 asset madness kicked-in, starting with trading Kevin Miller for no damn reason. Then using Doug Weight to get Esa, when Edmonton would have taken less. Next was Beezer! Then Patrick and Turcotte. Capped off by the Amonte trade, which also saw Todd Marchant and Gartner (likely a Messier influenced deal) traded the same day in other massive overpays. Let's not forget that offseason, Zubov, one of the key pieces to winning the Cup, was sent to the Pens. For those too young, it'd sorta be the equivalent of Winnipeg trading Ehlers, Laine, Scheifele, Morrissey and Trouba for Marleau, Thornton, Boumeister, Hartnell and Sharp. No cap implications back then, but still it's a jumbo mortgage. The Zubov trade was idiocy. Guy had a great career. Gartner and Messier apparently hated each other back to Messier's 1st season in the WHA and that never changed. Got worse under Nielsen here, where Messier's line played one balls to the wall style and the rest of the team played Nielsen's defense first style. But for some injuries the 1991/92 team would have won it all. That and Richter giving up a garbage goal on a dump pass. https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/NYR/1992.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 That and Richter giving up a garbage goal on a dump pass. https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/NYR/1992.html I still see that play when I close my eyes.... to this day!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Not really a dump in. Slap shot from 100ft. Awful goal but for people that didn’t see it, calling it a dump in doesn’t describe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Ron Francis! 5 Hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Not really a dump in. Slap shot from 100ft. Awful goal but for people that didn’t see it, calling it a dump in doesn’t describe it Was sitting in next to last row of MSG; it may have been a slapper, but wasn't moving 100mph and wasn't like he was even much trying to put it on goal. Arguably worst goal given up in a playoff game, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Forgot about this thread, missed this post. Missed a conversation about the great Gilbert Perreault who'd combine skating, stick-handling and passing the way Scorcese edited the Godfather. After the Hawks and Rangers miss the playoffs Joey Q comes here as the best available experienced coach. I like the more progressive Keefe as an option, Phil suggested. Yeah Giac, I miss those days of the big lines: The French Connection, The Triple Crown The GAG Line...and so on =) I wonder if Joel would be a decent fit here as well. I'd really like to see a different type approach; maybe an unproven coach or one that's been on the sideline a while that wants to return in a big way, like a Crawford-type. I just haven't followed it as closely of late to know who's available or who's out there looking. I think we're going to have to "dance with the chick we brought to the party" so to speak for the rest of this season though. It's even hard to get mad at him because he's a nice guy and he's so good with the media. Hell, he's even good on those MSG Rangers shows! But he is a "Situational Spaz" when it comes to being behind the bench to me. I hope they give him a job in the front office doing PR or something. He's probably a good dude, but just keep him away from Lettieri, the other kids and JT Miller!! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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