BrooksBurner

Highly disagree, the had the most points in the division, yet they were dead last in the division. It doesn't matter how many points you score if your constantly losing games. Again, look at the overall against the league in points for, teams don't just play division teams. They are at the bottom of the pack in regards to league wide scoring, thats more important than the division.

So you highly disagree that scoring more points than other teams helps win more games, and thus helps win the division? OK lol.

I think most didn't watch the 2nd half since the Giants were basically out of it, so I get it. Maybe some of the guys they brought in will help defensively, but it will probably be more of the same on that end.

Was it really 90% likely? It was a poorly kept secret he liked New York, but so did Kovalchuk. Everyone had he and the Rangers married for months before even left Russia.

Just going based off all of the reports that were out about it. Obviously I am just throwing a percentage out there. Probably depends how much he wanted to turn pro versus go back to college for another year. Rangers might have been choice A, but if he wanted to turn pro that badly he might have been willing to go with choice B (insert team here) instead of wait a year to sign with NYR.

I think if the Rangers drafted Adam Fox in the 2nd round this year, everyone would be thrilled.

 

I don't understand some of these complaints. The 2nd round has something like a

 

Well if it wasn't 90% likely he was going to sign here for free in 12 months everyone would be ecstatic about the trade. I'm happy with the trade, but it's buying a year and I suppose a guarantee to get him instead of the off chance he would have changed his mind.

Scoring the most in the division means absolutely nothing. Look at where they are in the league, they were 16th in the league. The entire division sucked putting up points. Tate is at the end of his career, Shepard is decent, but he isn't a number 1 WR. The OL was terrible last year, they got better as the season went on, but were still horrible. They went 5-11 which isn't anything to brag about.

The OL was much improved the 2nd half and they've added a probowl quality RG.

Scoring the most points in the division generally helps win the division, so it does matter. I didn't see people bitching about the Eagles or Cowboys offense even though they scored less. The defense was horrid and thats why the Giants were horrid.

First of all, I fucking hate the Giants lol

That's a relief. There is still a faction of Giants fans that sound just like you. You can rip the Giants all you want heh, but you're wrong ;)

Well on their way to being respectable again.

I thought the Jets fan base was embarrassing and the Giants fanbase was classy

I guess a few losing seasons changes things pretty fast.

Tate + Shepard is one of the worst 1-2 WR combos in the NFL lol. Engram is good, but Saquon is the whole offense.

 

"Consistently" They only did it against Indy, Tampa (JV squad) and the Cowboys backups...those weren't legit NFL defenses. The offense didn't do much in the others you're referring to...Against WAS they had a defensive TD and a 10-yard TD drive. Against Chicago, they had a defensive TD and a -6 yard FG drive that started at the Chicago 13.

 

The offense sucks as bad as the defense.

You can do far worse than Tate, Shephard, Engram, and Barkley out of the backfield. Coleman also has potential as a former 1st rounder. This isn't fantasy football. Not everyone needs 1200/10 to make up a good receiving core. The Pats are a shining example of this.

I get it though. There's a Giants fan faction out there that requires bitching and moaning about everything. It's the hip thing. This fan base is embarrassing.

If you saw a strong-armed QB in Daniel Jones, then I have no idea what you're watching. It is unanimous that he doesn't have a strong arm.

You didn't read anything I wrote if that is your summation.

Not to mention, everyone keeps saying he played on a bad team that had no talent in college, yet what does everyone think he is stepping into here? The Giants have no OL, no WR, only a running back. If OBJ was still here, the argument can be made that he has some talent between OBJ and Barkely, so he had some offensive options. Now, what does he have? If Eli can't get anything done with them, what is Jones going to do thats different?

Run lol .. but really though, Tate and Shepherd is no WR? The OL has been essentially completely rebuilt, aside from RT. Though there's a rumor that they will be signing Remmers for that. This seems like a false narrative for a team that scored the most points in their division, and consistently scored 27+ points per game in the 2nd half. I am not very concerned about the offense personally. The defense on the other hand...

This one?

https://youtu.be/11Y7hpvrppA?t=50

 

Every QB in the league can do this when they're able to step up and use their whole body. But even this ball floats.

 

Compare that to this, which travels 70 after movement in the pocket:

 

But just compare the zip that Allen has with such minimal effort. These guys aren't even in the same class as passers, and Allen wasn't even considered the top QB. That's why Jones at 6 is a huge reach.

 

Jones has plenty of arm for the NFL if you want him to be Chad Pennington. Your interpretation of the film is based on what you want him to be, not what he actually is. He's got a slow, manufactured release that only generates power when surrounding factors are perfect. That's what Christian Hackenberg was like lol.

That was my interpretation of the film before the draft, so no, it's not what I want to see. It's simply what I see. Your interpretation of what you see is based off other's interpretations.

Yes, this is another over payment, but not close to the ridiculously rich MSL package when he would only accept a trade to the Rangers or not getting Tampa's top rated prospect for an elite D-Man. I agree that a 2d round pick has about a 20% chance of becoming a decent NHL player. Of course, I don't know what Fox's chances are. The way he's getting played up by some, he'd be a mid to late first round pick if eligible for the draft this year.

I think he would be higher than that.

Probably paid more for Fox than we got for Zuccarello lol

Unless he makes an instant and sizeable impact it wasn't worth it.

This is...awfully generous. He went early because of his physical limitations, its disingenuous to act like they aren't there.

 

His deep ball floats and his delivery is awfully slow - which are both a product of a weak arm and a lack of natural throwing talent. The best quarterbacks just throw with that little flick of the wrist, Jones can't get any mustard without being able to step up and throw with perfect mechanics. That doesn't get exposed in the college game, it will in the pros. What he does have is good vision and mechanics...but that means he doesn't have a whole lot of developing to do. He's Chad Pennington, Josh McCown, Case Keenum, etc.

I just don't see that on tape.

On phone right now so can't dig for in game footage, but on pro day he flung it 50 yards in a quick smooth motion...looks like he barely tried: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap3000001024325/Daniel-Jones-dials-long-distance-on-deep-ball-at-pro-day

Plenty of arm for the NFL. You don't need to be upper echelon arm strength amongst NFL QBs to be elite. Brady and Brees are not in the upper echelon when it comes to arm strength.

I think the thing with...

 

Murray

Haskins

Jones

 

All have their deficiencies. Honestly at 6 I’d have concerns with all 3. Haskins could turn out to be a 300 lb mess. Murray may be too small or injury prone for the league and Jones while smart could be nothing more than average. Was it worth passing on a defensive star for any of these 3? Who knows. Guys like Bosa, White and Allen look like future pro bowlers for sure.

 

 

 

 

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Would have loved Murray. He's a special player. I'd absolutely roll the dice on his size.

Not taking Allen is a very tough pill to swallow. By all accounts, the Giants had an excellent value draft once disregarding the Jones pick. It would have been a homerun with Allen, and the defense would be that much more improved. You win with the big boys on DL/OL. They should have stuck to that. QB could have been solved next draft. With all that said, I still think Jones has the ability to make Gettleman eventually look like a genius. It was a career defining decision and it took massive balls to do it. I hope it works out.

Saw on a hfboards a preds fan who had been arguing on a Preds board about a potential trade. Do anyone here take it?

 

To NYR:

Fabbro, Tolvanen, 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2020 2nd.

 

To Preds:

2019 2nd OA.

 

I would say no because the 1st is most likely very high, but would love to have Fabbro.

No for both sides. Nashville loses basically all flexibility to improve roster for the playoffs at deadline. Rangers get a drawerful of unproven talent, but nothing worth the #2. The picks will be low.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/28/draft-recap-dolphins-rosen-trade-giants-fans-daniel-jones-steve-keim-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-social

Good stuff!

The other most annoying thing about NFL draft fandom is that everyone forgets that teams can not only trade their draft picks, but can trade them in exchange for another team's draft picks. Which brings us to Giants fans, who at some point over the past 18 months… I’m not really sure how to put this, but it seems like they collectively decided to do an Improv Everywhere-style mass impersonation of Jets fans.

 

If you don’t like the Daniel Jones pick, then don’t like the Daniel Jones pick. He was in a trio of uninspiring second-tier QBs in an uninspiring draft class. Some NFL teams thought he was better than Dwayne Haskins, and some did not. At Duke, Jones played behind a terrible offensive line with receivers who were not only unable separate consistently but struggled to catch the ball when they did. At Ohio State, Haskins played in an offense where almost every one of his teammates, in every game, was better than the man they lined up against. Haskins has a better arm. Jones is a better athlete. (I’d have thought Giants fans would have terror-induced diarrhea at the thought of Haskins standing like a statue behind an offensive line that hasn’t been good for years, but seems I'm mistaken.)

 

Jones would not have made it to 17, a fact that for some reason has made the obnoxious new faction of woe-is-me Giants fans go after respected journalists who will forget more about football than these internet tough guys will ever know. But let’s step into a fictional world where Jones might have been available at 17. What are the odds that, say, taking Josh Allen (a fine player but another guy in that clump of not-Bosa-nor-Quinnen players in this draft), to play under a defensive coordinator who primarily generates pressure via the blitz, instead of Dexter Lawrence would make a difference? (That’s a rhetorical question, the answer is “very low.”)

 

Projecting a quarterback’s success is difficult, and there will be a number of factors both in and out of Jones’s control that will determine what he becomes in the NFL. But, in short, this Jones pick is fine. It certainly shouldn't be moving anyone emotionally. I’ve spent the bulk of my life in New York, and I haven’t heard the city freak out over a draft pick like this since the Knicks missed out on Jahlil Okafor.

His deep passes need a long build up and release to generate enough power to hit the target and they tend to hang for a long time

 

He has ability to move to evade pocket pressure, but he doesn’t move often to create windows which led to a high rate of batted balls at scrimmage in college

 

With that arm, when he tried to make NFL-caliber throws outside the hash-mark, he wasn't throwing at the same level as NFL elite level QBs in a tight window and at the same speed

 

He's also got a bit of a thin frame physically and doesn't tend to protect himself, he already had a collarbone injury last season and there is legit injury concern at the NFL level

Arm strength can be improved to a certain degree over time. Several examples exist of QBs improving their arm strength after reaching the pros. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, etc. The way this is mentioned in the media makes it seems like he has a noodle arm. It's not an absolute cannon like Kyler Murray, in fact it's a couple of notches below, but it's an NFL arm.

Neither batted balls or size concerns are natural talent. Batted balls is fixable. The size comment is inaccurate. Go take a look at NFL QBs and their height/weight/etc. He's also only 21.

The guy was 1st round pick quality. Probably more teens-20s, but that's just how it goes sometimes. Gettleman simply wanted him and didn't care if it was a value reach. In reality they should have been prepared for this scenario where a guy like Allen is available that you should absolutely take. That way they can have a trade lined up to get back up there for Jones. Perhaps they did and they couldn't work anything out for a trade up, but it didn't sound like it based on Gettleman's press conference the night of the draft. What people are doing right now is painting this picture that Jones is a mediocre or backup QB just because he was taken early.

I'm honestly just glad that at least it wasn't Haskins at 6. That guy is going to bust hard IMO.

The only way that's true is if the sum is greater than the parts. He doesn't have any natural elite tools. It's a huge reach to project he's even going to come close to Eli Manning. It's possible, but it's not likely.

Define natural elite tools. Is this just a cannon for an arm? That's not what makes QBs great.

Obviously the 'other' issue is Jones isn't anything special, somebody keep this guy away from the Senior Bowl

Oh really? What a glowing regurgitation of the ESPN talking heads.

I've watched Daniel Jones tape, and not just the highlights. I see a ton of potential and don't understand the incessant hating that's out there right now. I get the point that he was picked a little higher than some mock drafters thought he would, but I don't see on tape what the haters are saying. He doesn't have a weak arm. He doesn't have bad accuracy. He doesn't have a bad deep ball, though he didn't get to use it that much with the OL he had. He is probably the second most mobile QB behind Murray in this draft. He can really run and he posted a very good 40 time...something like 4.65. He makes smart decisions. Giants fans need to step away from the ledge and see how it pans out.

I'll add that I would have taken Allen in that spot, and don't think it was a prudent move at all to take Jones there. But if they feel it's their guy and they A) didn't want to lose Jones and B) didn't think they could work out a trade up from 17 to make sure they got him, then I understand. But it's done, and it's time to focus on the positives. It will be fun reading the Giants bashing league wide for probably a year and a half until Jones even gets a snap.

But WHY????? Will we ever know?? After all the seasons of set up??

I think they answered this. Because the three-eyed raven/Bran represented the memory of mankind.

The dothraki charge did piss me off. I even said to my wife when it happened, what are they doing? Why would they charge into the dark rather then use all of the barriers and defense mechanisms they set up? Don't they know they'll die out there and then just add themselves to the enemy after they are killed and raised up? I really hated that part.

In regards to the Arya bit. I look past this as the NK had ordered all of them to STOP as he approached Bran. Maybe this shut down their senses. I find that to be plausible, since every one of them is ultimately controlled by him. Additionally, the NK was laser focused on Bran. His ultimate target was finally in front of him.