Capt

Miller's production is in line with Panarin's. If Miller is worth $8.5M and can play both center and wing. Kills penalties and power play, plays physical, drags his teammates into the fight, etc. How is he worth $8.5M while Panarin is worth $11.5M? I'm not judging Panarin's commitment or drive. I'm not questioning if he's a good player. I'm questioning the logic of having so much money invested in single players. Trouba is another one but he's not 31 and he didn't melt in the playoffs. It's Panarin or Kreider that will have to give at some point. Laff, Miller, and Chytil all need new contracts next year. How is that getting done? If Panarin was making $8.5M he'd be playing to his contract. Making an extra $3M AAV is a big deal even if no one here wants top admit it. It's a problem. It'

And if you wanted a shutdown line you could make your third line this Kreider Zib Chytil Laf Miller Kravtsov Goodrow Horvat Kakko Blais Rooney Motte

Sorry you brought up his age, which has no basis in this discussion

Ok fine. The team improved though and that is not debatable. You have finally brought up the cap in your discussion and that is a huge factor in all of this. Panarin is a great talent and in a precap league the Rangers could afford to wait to see if the playoffs were a fluke. But in a cap league the rangers wait and they lose other important roster pieces due to the cap. They fill in their roster with league minimum hacks because of the cap. They go bargain bin shopping for second line centers because of the cap. Panarin makes up 15% of the cap. He's the highest paid player in the league not named McDavid. He signed his contract 3-4 years ago and no-one other than McDavid has signed one since at a higher AAV. Nobody should have too guess if he will be better or if he will show up in the playoffs. At $11.5M that should be automatic. You're opinion is fair. You're point about him not going anywhere is fair and I agree with you there. The cap is the point here for me. Vancouver is supposedly shopping Miller and Horvat. The two of them make up $11.5M combined for this year. It may take more than Panarin to get both, maybe Panarin and Lundqvist. But with Strome off the books the Rangers are playing with $16M in cap to replace Strome and Panarin. Horvat and Miller would replace them and save them cap. Miller at $8M and Horvat at most at $7M. Saving $1m which could go to Motte. Lineup: Kredier Zib Blais Miller Horvat Kravtsov Laff Chytil Kakko Motte Rooney Goodrow To me that's a much better playoff team. Otthmann and Cuyille could both push themselves into that lineup as well

St. Louis at the time of the trade was a point per game player and a year removed in leading the league in scoring. Not sure how he's not considered an elite talent at the time of the trade.

How do you measure them being better? A better record would seem logical. You repeating they didn't doesn't make it true either. I have posted their record as evidence they got better. You have posted nothing that disputes them not being better other than opinion.

Seriously no one here would think about Panarin to the Jets for Schiffle plus?

And how did I not read other people's posts? I quoted your post referencing Cirelli. I wasn't even thinking Cirelli until you brought him up only making my point even better. Tampa traded a top 10 scorer and got better. It also help set them up for another decade of success. Stop with the bullshit. I read your posts along with every other post. I'm responding in good faith with my opinion. I'm not getting nasty with you. You know nothing about me yet constantly place labels or assumptions my way.

You're not interested in having a discussion. You are interested in assigning thoughts to people by putting words in their mouths. The St Louis trade is like this situation. The McD trade was not. The St. Louis trade is actually a good representation. Panarin for an established player like Miller plus a guy like Podkolzin or Hollander. (St. Louis for Callahan plus 2 1sts) The point is Tampa got better. You said they got worse, that's wrong. Who cares what Callahan did or didn't do. Tampa made the trade and got assets back and didn't skip a beat in fact it set them up for multiple cups and assets in the system that made it possible to make the McD trade in the future. Every move and every dollar spent affects every future move and future contract. Panarin at $11.5M is a contract he only lives up to when he's playing at Hart trophy levels. Patron is going to 31 by the start of next season. His best years are probably behind him. His best years don't match up with the rest of this roster. This team is in it's infancy of contending. The cap situation is only going to get worse year by year as these elc's end. If this year isn't the year that Panarin's contract is untenable than great. To me it's reached that point now.

They didn't? 2013-14 they finished with 101 points and lost in a first round sweep. The next year they had 108 points and lost in the Cup Final beating the their trade partner Rangers in the ECF. They acquired Cirelli in the same trade whose been a lynchpin in years of success and cups. The difference between the St. Louis trade and McD trade is that the McD trade was for pure rebuilding. Picks and prospects while the St' Louis trade was established players plus plus. Big difference. The idea of trading Panarin is nothing like trading McD. The Rangers would only be interested in acquiring NHL talent back as the main piece of a deal. Like the JT Miller plus Podkolzin or Hollander deal I put forth. I have never advocated for a Panarin for picks and prospects.

Tampa got better trading St Louis too

I agree they are not trading him. That doesn't menthe shouldn't listen to offers and see what's out there. Before this post season he was untouchable. After this post season and with the cap situation I would hope the Rangers are art least exploring what's the market for him. I actually think there is less interest in him than people think. He's carrying a $11.5M cap hit. Most teams aren't willing to tie that up in a player who's a shrinking violet no matter how talented they are. I know I'm alone in this thinking but I think now is time you can still trade him before his contract seriously neuters this team's window down the line. Here's a trade idea: Panarin to Vancouver JT Miller and either Podkolzin or Hollander to NY Rangers

I didn't say trade him for prospects. I didn't even say trade him absolutely. I said explore it. The reason it's him and not Zib or anyone else is because of two main reasons. His contract is the largest and it would free up the most money. Second he's a wing and the Rangers are best positioned on the wing. Gaborik had a good cup run while being the what 8 most impactful player on that team. He was not the focal point of any opponent. Panarin is the second highest paid player in the sport. He is paid to be a lead player. 5on5 play is not all his fault but he's a big part of it. Erik Karlsson at the time of the trade was considered the best defenseman in hockey. Multiple Norris trophies already in the bank. The key to making any of these trades is to make them before the player is not worth his contract. Finally all I read on this board was how the playoffs would determine a lot in judgement of players and their future here. It was mainly reserved for Laff, Kakko, and Chytil. Nobody ever thought it would revolve around a guy like Panarin. If any of those kids had struggled the threads here would be how big of a bust they are and how quickly the Rangers could move them. These are kids all 21 or under carrying little to minimum cap hits. They all played great. Panarin was awful and the excuse of injury is pathetic. The team nor the player is saying that. Injuries to every other player was listed after the season was over. Panarin was not on it. So at the very least maybe it's time to stop the injury excuse. He shit the bed. Argue that he needs another chance that's understandable. To just make up excuses for the guy with no basis of fact or proof was something I thought was frowned upon on here. Own it, he has, he's looking forward to karaoke.

You are not trading him and replacing him with nothing. Comments of it being short sighted is actually far from the truth. The salary cap is going to force other players out of here. It's also going to stop the Rangers from being able to afford to address their other holes. The same people who call exploring trading Panarin shortsighted, also rightly point out that 5on5 scoring and overall play as the biggest problem facing this team in the playoffs. That is a direct result from a complete no show from Panarin. The guy takes up 15% of the cap. He's a great talent who admittedly produces at a great pace during the regular season. This season though he was not exactly good outside his numbers to those who watched the games. He was a turnover machine and had stretches of being disinterested. At $11.5M that's not good enough. I could careless how much money anybody makes. It only matters in a cap world where every dollar one player gets is a dollar taken from the rest of the team you are able to build. The Rangers have plenty of talented wings in the system and at the NHL level. What they need is talented centers. They have no cap space to address that. Next year they are going to have issues signing Laff and Miller no less others.

I'd trade him if I could. His contract is going to be a problem if it isn't already. He sucked in the playoffs. You cannot have $11.5M disappearing acts in the playoffs and expect to ever win. The kids are still kids, might as well get rid of the dead weight now and take a step back than have an anchor tied around their neck for their careers.

I'm a little confused to why the Blues are considering trading O'Reilly. I'm hoping the Rangers don't resign either of them. Either of those two as the Rangers #2 center is not good enough and I don't see the thought in locking in someone there for term that doesn't get you closer to winning the Cup. In fact it makes it harder to do so with the cap implications. The Rangers are an awful 5 on 5 team. Not sure what resigning them does to change that. The only option is to try find a trade partner. That will probably mean robbing Peter to pay Paul. The Rangers will have to trade something we don't want to part with to fill that #2 center hole. The Rangers are loaded with defensive and wing assets. To me nobody on the roster other than Igor is off limits. What about Matt Duchene in Nashville? They are looking at a rebuild. Would they take some retention to get some young talent?

People will try to pass credit around. Igor is the reason this team did what it did. Period. Coaching had nothing to do with it.

Unfortunately for Strome the Rangers need a different kind of center following Zib. I would seriously consider putting Panarin with Zib and building a tougher more straight line second line. The Rangers have to start to become a team that can forecheck and possess the puck. Can't play Ice Capades 3 out of 4 lines. The other problem for Strome here is that he's not suited to play outside the top 6. He's not good defensively, can't win a face-off, bad possession numbers, isn't physical, etc. etc. What he does well is produce points when paired with talent. Teams pay for that. I have a sneaky suspicion that other teams don't value him as high as we think. I think he has a hard time getting anything over $4.5 with term. I have a hard time thinking anyone gives him more than 3 years. The Rangers should just wait and see if he falls back into their laps at a reasonable term.

Thinking the same thing. Injury was thrown around everyday all post season as the reason for his awful play. So if it's not an injury than what?

I'd take a look at Lazar for the 4th line

Andreas Athanisiu?

Trying to win a hockey game is dressing Dryden Hunt? Why not dress McKegg? If GG truly believes that Hunt is an upgrade over KK then something is drastically wrong here

Yeah when he's a no show for 20 playoff games that happens

Yes but the goal is to win the cup not make the playoffs. At $11.6M cap hit, it's not enough to be one of the guys that gets you to the playoffs and than disappear come playoff time. He's the second highest paid player in the league. He didn't get that money to be a bystander come playoff time. The Rangers aren't lost without Panarin. $11.6M would afford you Schiflie and Strome or Copp. It would afford you any player in the league other than McDavid. You can't act like if the Rangers traded Panarin it would be him gone with nothing replacing him. There would in fact be quite a lot replacing him. You would theoretically be trading a star for depth. Ala Gaborik for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore. Panarin for say Lundell, Bennett, Goudas and Marchment would seem like a pretty good deal for the Rangers and one where Panarin would probably accept.

At an $11.6M cap hit, his line mates are a direct result of that cap hit. Sorry but you reap what you sow. He's paid to be the guy his line mates get better by playing with. In the regular season he's praised by all of hockey with how great he is. That praise is deserved. However when then game tightens and becomes more physical it is noticeable how his game changes. His production is only part of the problem. The turnovers and 2 minute lackluster shifts are just things that cannot happen. He has earned the criticism. There is no way his reputation didn't take a beating after this postseason. Fair or unfair that is true. This was a guy on people's Hart Trophy lists in. past years. Anyone looking at him as that player now? Copp and Strome aren't slouches, well Copp anyway. Both are considered top 6 forwards on almost any roster, well Copp is anyway. So what kind of linemate does Panarin need to produce in the playoffs?