MuddyInTheMiddle

As you are the Oracle(mean that as a sincere compliment) when it comes to prospects, was about to ask you how you sized him up compared to Ryan Graves at this point in his development? He is another one that we flipped for peanuts, and has gone on to have a career as a middle pair defenseman. I will understand if they move on from Robertson as the Rangers are reasonably deep at the NHL level, but don't have much behind him below it and need to restock.

I'll go a step farther(and this is pure speculation); but I think if his contract demands were more reasonably in line with the marketplace(like say 1.1 million for a 1 year deal), I would think he might have even gotten that. You have to think that a 28 year old Tyler Motte @ 1.1 million is > than a 32 year old Alex Bezile or 34 year old Riley Nash at 775K. It's not that he was delusional for holding out for that 2 million as Larry asserts; it that he is delusional for doing it in this kind of a marketplace. Bonino and Wheeler figured that out and signed within hours of free agency opening. Would not surprise me to see him get close to that 2 million next Summer when the cap goes up if he stays consistent and injury free.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment above, but who are these elite finishers that he played with in juniors?

OK. So what was the trade that was supposed to happen?

Yes. Still don't buy it though. It goes w/o saying that top tier players are going to produce w/ elite players. Kreider will simply score more this upcoming season if he has Zibenejad as his center instead of Trochek. However, draw me a straight line that shows where if Zuc gets dropped down to that 2nd line Minnesota RW spot his production falls off of a cliff skating with Boldy and Erikson Ek.

Plural not singular; holes. I don't buy the entire "because because he plays with Kaprizov that is why he puts up the numbers he does" argument. He put up this kind of production before he arrived in Minnesota, so you can't draw a straight line like you could to someone like Ryan Strome whose production was heavily affected by playing with Panarin.

I know that Zucc was always a fan favorite. Saw a post on IG mentioning that he is entering his 15th season and coming off his two most productive years, so I had to go take a look and sure enough he has only gotten better with age. When the Rangers parted company with him it bummed me out, but knew it was the right move as players with his size and stature tend to break down as they get into their 30's and he was looking for term. When he signed that 6M deal with Minnesota, I thought "wow they are going to regret that deal". Looking up those stats, has me second guessing that now. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but considering all of the problems that the Rangers have had at right wing, did they make a mistake letting him go and not trying to negotiate a home town discount?

Probably the biggest stain on Drury's record imo. If there was no market for him that Summer, I completely get it; but you need to get more for a 26 year old point per game player than a 4th liner and a 2nd round pick. If I recall this pick was not an immediate cap crunch, but more an impending one for the following season. Don't want to go through all of the old threads; but I believe there was a scenario that they could have signed him to the similar/same deal St. Louis did, and then flip him at the trade deadline. The optics of that would have been horrible as a contending team, but they would have realized serious value for what they could have gotten for him. At the very least it would have given them options when Lafrenaire & Kaako fizzled that season. Lost opportunity.

Even that 93-94 team had alot of talented youth on it after trading Amonte(23) at the deadline: Zubov(23) Graves(25) Kovalev(20) Matteau(23) Leetch(25) Karpotsev(23) Norstrom(21)

Didn't look at it that way, but you are correct. I was looking at it through the lends of if they were overpaid when they signed the deal, of which Trouba's absolutely was. That cuts both ways too; if the Rangers had any idea they were getting three 30+ extrapolated goal seasons out of Krieder with one of them being a 52 goal campaign, they would have done cartwheels.

I looked at Cap Friendly to make sure that I wasn't missing anything, but I think probably the cap hit that you could be most critical of would be Trouba. It should probably be 6.75-7 million if you consider the season that he was coming off in Winnipeg, and what top 4 defenseman who are on the verge of free agency go for. Goodrow's is probably also about 1 million too high. If you look at a single contract or two that is off by ~1 million when you compare the value they are getting in the Kreider, Chytil, Vesey, Wheeler, Lingdren, and Shesterkin contracts; the article is asinine to be critical of that.

If you read my post, I was replying to to Pete's comments regarding fan expectations; what does that have to do with the team?

100% agree on the myopic expectations.

So that makes my point even stronger that even though he has been there for the majority of Dolan's tenure, he is NOT the difference maker even though I don't think anyone can doubt that he was definitely a contributor to their success.

I don't want to take anything away from Benoit Allaire, because he is far and widely regarded as the best in the business. Having said that, 2 Hall of Fame goalies named Richter and Lunqvist with a crap ton of mediocre goaltending in between might have had something to do with that. As for the 5 guys(I can only think of 4); two of them(Smith & Sather) had the gig for 20+ of the last 28 years of Dolan's tenure. The third guy(Gorton) who had the gig for another 6 of those years was very committed to drafting & development and did an OK job at it. He did do the walking and chewing gum thing(drafting and free agents) that I mentioned above. Finally Drury has had the job for about 2 years. Way too soon to comment on his ability to draft, and that he didn't even really have any draft picks in 2022, you probably won't get a realistic read on his and his scouting department's acumen until at least 2025.

Don't buy that one either. Lafrenaire, Kaako, Chytil, Miller, Schneider, Lingdren are all entrenched on the NHL roster. Kravtsov played 28 games in the NHL last sesason; there is not a nicer way to say it other than he sucked. Jones also played in a handful of NHL games and his lack of size & strength was exposed quickly. Hoping that he is able to stick this season, as I really like his creativity. As for your example of Cuyllle and Othman; they both have opportunities this season. Othman was returned to juniors after a great camp last year because they felt his development would be better served there playing 50-60 games at 18+ minutes per night rather than on the 4th line at 8 minutes a night and having to work up from there. There was no option to send him to the AHL. It's fair to disagree with the decision, but it's not like he was knocking Panarin or Kreider of of LW1 & LW2. Cuyllye needed another year to develop in the AHL after a very "meh" camp and at 21 has the path cleared for him this year. All that he needs to do is push Tyler Pitlick and Alex Bezille(as well as everyone on the depth chart below them) out of the way during training camp. If he can't do that, how do you justify a spot for him on the NHL roster?

I don't buy that thought process. Why couldn't any or all of those 5 guys you mentioned pursue free agents and develop draft talent? It's not a binary choice. To me the real rationalization is simply that he had the wrong 5 guys in charge. Even though I am not entirely sold on either Gorton being the wrong guy(what he is doing in Montreal is starting to change my mind though), and/or Drury being the right guy(I do get more confidence with him as the months go on). Both have warts, but also have made some very solid moves.

Great post and research! To me the draft is really like a casino game. There is definitely skill involved, but alot of it is dumb luck; see picks like Cherneski, Cherepanov, or even Cloutier as a prime example of that. You could even argue what a year in the AHL would have done for Kaako or Lafrenaire(no way to tell if management would have parked them there), but there wasn't even really that option due to Covid. This analysis tells that the drafts that they pooped the bed on were 2003 and 2010; it's just unforgivable the talent that was passed over picking that high. To a lesser extent, 2017 & 2018 were saved because they got value out of their other first round picks; but equally unforgivable in that Anderson and Kravtsov were just as much about being head cases, than prospects that simply didn't cut it. Seems to me that it would be much easier to me to be able to scout whether someone doesn't have the right mindset, than whether they can keep up with NHL speed at this level.

https://www.blueshirtsbrotherhood.com/topic/20359-carp-expect-rangers-to-target-blake-coleman/page/3/#comment-832929 Sorry; it was the Rye whiskey that made me do it. Still find it hilarious 3 years later.

Keep it down Shayna; fat shaming isn't cool.

My issue is the contract vs. the sample size. Please give me a comparable where that same 6.5 million cap hit would not have been more justified on a 4-5 year cap hit. While they are definitely buying his prime years, they are also buying 2-3 post prime years as he turns 25 in 3 days.

I just tried to look at it from who were the best 5 from every team that met my criteria outlined above vs. the best 5 from that Rangers group. If I had to rank the Rangers: 1. Chris Kreider 2. JT Miller 3. Marc Staal 4. Niklas Sundstrom 5. Michael Del Zotto/Brady Skjei When you are debating whetherMichael Del Zotto is better Brady Skjei, you are grasping at straws.

I am not sure what pulling the chute involves. Getting a high second round draft pick(or other change of scenery prospect) which is kind of what he is worth right now vs. what they got for Kravtsov which was a little more than a bag of used pucks. A high 2nd round draft pick isn't worth that much much more than used pucks. I say let it ride for 2 years. #sunkcost

You are severely undervaluing Michael Del Zotto! All kidding aside; ouch! To try and debunk this, I went through every NHL team that I could think of to try and find a weaker drafting record that fit the following criteria: 1. Had been around for 30+ years 2. Has not been perennially drafting in the top 10 for a large chuck of that period https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00004919.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005763.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006664.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00006929.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007066.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007439.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008187.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008871.html https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html Without clicking any those links above, know what I found no matter how much anyone may want to argue that JT Miller may have had a better career than Kreider at the end of the day? Absolutely nobody(maybe the Florida Panthers). Scary.

He puts up another season like last season and he is getting 11-12 million X 8 easily. Smart on his part; unless Vancouver's offers look like that plus, why would he consider when they are not even close to being competitive.