Fatfrancesa

No we aren’t. 30 games is an unworkable number. He’s getting that all day long. 50 or 60 could have been managed

Yet a 2nd and a 3 was traded for fox. So I guess teams do value them.

My eyes

Well, I clearly said mine was hypothetical.

 

Based on all of your responses we have to believe that you were serious. If you weren't being serious and you were only being hypothetical, then now is your chance to say so instead of getting an attitude.

 

Serious about what that he’s not their 3rd best player or best defenseman? Yes I’m serious. That’s he’s been ok, yes I’m serious. That I’m complaining about fox? That’s made up shit. Fox being here or not makes zero difference to this team. They suck with or without him. What is better for his development? I admittedly don’t know. If there is little difference for development sake I’d rather keep the higher draft pick. If sending him to Hartford here and there say because the condition was 50-60 games it would have been doable. 30 games is not. Which is why I backed off.

I specifically asked what the condition was about his trade and dependibg on the condition if it made sense to send him down. Is that not hypothetical? I never said anything negative about the guy. I said he’s ok. I guess this is the political shit that destroys threads

I (hypothetically)sent him down to shield him from a shit ton of losing. You're (realistically) sending him down because you don't think he's worth a 2nd rounder, that's not at all the same conversation.

 

Oh your posts aren’t serious they are hypothetical while mine are realistic. I got it.

Deangelo has been good offensively, but he has been awful in his own zone. There is no way he is better than Fox right now. Planarian and Zib have been better players, but I wouldn't say that any of the rest of the guys in that list have been better. Trouba is getting better now that he is away from Skjei. IMO, Fox is close t being the 3rd best because he has been consistent in his play, and his stats don't lie.

 

His stats? 2 points? He plays sheltered minutes. That matters. I’m not arguing he’s awful. You think he’s the best defenseman. That’s great. I don’t agree. Move on.

As for any player, sending them down to the minors when they are playing well will only kill their confidence. Thats the main reason you don't do it. The guy is playing well, and sending him down to just send him down will kill that confidence and can set back his development.

 

Ok I’m fine with that

And for what it’s worth I thought Lindgren was there best defenseman in camp and looked pretty good last game

I've been thoroughly impressed with his transition. Although he is playing a limitted role, and sheltered minutes, he's still surpassed my expectations of his play in his own zone. I thought he was going to struggle - but hes been good so far.

 

I agree with this. But he’s also underwhelmed offensively. It’s been 10 games. That all can change. He’s obviously a nhl player. This is a conversation about what’s best for development and the future of the team. My take all along has always been every decision should be made towards years later not this year. Fox should be here because it’s good for him not because he’s better than Marc Staal. I don’t know what’s good for him being here or not. Fact is he’s playing shelter minutes here. Is that better than him playing all the important minutes in Hartford? I don’t know.

He’s asking you who’s better, not about sending him down. He’s already admitted in this thread that he’s willing to send him down.

 

Ok. Panarin, Zibanejad, buchnevich, strome, trouba, deangelo, Georgiev, Hajek, even Smith have all been as good or even better. I view fox like lemieux. Both have been ok. Neither are a problem neither are standing out.

 

What’s curious to me. Is that I don’t think fox has been great and I’m ok with sending him down. Other think he’s been there best defenseman and 3rd best player on the roster and they want to send him down. But it’s me that needs to explain? Funny

I’m trying to get my head around the idea of “agreeing to disagree” on the stats.

I mean, they are what they are. That’s the main concept of stats. In Fox’s case they’re very good.

Unless we’re questioning the data source or imply that someone cooked the books there isn’t really all that much to disagree with.

Because I have nothing to say. My eye test says he’s been ok. I’m not demanding they send him down. I asked a question how many games the condition was. The answer was 30. Obviously he’s playing those games here at some point this year so there is no reason to send him down. I don’t hate fox, I actually think he has a nice future ahead of him. To say he’s been their best defender and 3rd best player is just false. Not worth arguing just to argue. Up until the last game he’s been playing sheltered minutes. Trouba while not living up to his contract, surprise surprise, is better if you take money out. Deangelo has 8 points including 4 goals in 10 games. Yet he’s been labeled easily replaceable on here. Hajek has been playing the tough matchups and has faired ok for a rookie. The others are trash and comparing him with them is pointless. My take is that fox, Hajek, and deangelo have all been ok. Not bad not great. All have different roles but it’s hard to compare them not in that context. Hajek sees the top lines every night paired with trouba. Fox has not. That doesn’t mean he would fair better or succeed it just means it hasn’t happened.

 

Besides here I was agreeing with Pete in saying if the season went south I would be ok with moving both fox and kakko down. Not as an indictment on them but to allow them to build chemistry with our future and have success in Hartford. Again I’m fine with keeping them here too. The team can make the best development decision. I just brought up that there is a condition to games played with fox. Take that as you may.

OK, who's been better? Happy to discuss how you came to your conclusion.

 

You have a thread on this site started by you playing the hypothetical gm. Point 1 is you sending fox and kakko down. Now your arguing with me about sending fox down?

No, by the eyeball test and by the Numbers he's been our best defenseman and third best player behind Z and Pan.

 

Well we can agree to disagree about that. He’s been neither good or bad to me. I’m not sure how official your rankings are but in my opinion he’s not the 3rd best player thus far. His future is bright though.

If parayko was on the table I would imagine there would be an actual bidding war and it wouldn’t be a soon to be ufa kreider as the winning bid, unless our first was involved.

He’s been ok.

30 games is a lock so no point in discussing

I guess, but I never said anything about him not being good enough or worth a 2nd.

 

A 2nd looks like a steal right now.

 

 

Nor did I. A 3rd would be better though

 

Does anyone know the condition? How many games?

It's also unlikely that anything taken with that second-round pick will be of equal or greater value than Fox himself.

 

 

In that case it’s unlikely what you get for kreider will amount to much either. It’s just more pieces or more lottery tickets so to speak.

If Zib is out for awhile, Kreider and Strome are moved, and we're real bad...I suggest shielding the kids from the abuse. That would be my only reason to send him down.

 

And that is more the reason I brought it up. We were talking hypothetically if the season went south. The 3rd becoming a 2 isn’t the end of the world. It neither would be fox playing 30-40 games here and the rest in Hartford getting 20 plus minutes a night and winning. Not a hill I’m willing to really argue either way just a thought really.

Wait? What?

Fox isn?t worth a 2nd??

 

 

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Not saying that? Asking a question. How many games is the threshold? If the season is a loss it?s something to think about. I?m not saying burry him down there. It depends on the threshold

Yeah but it’s pittsburgh. They will suck, their fake fans will disappear again and lemieux and ownership will threaten bankruptcy again. Then when the next lemieux/Crosby type comes up in the draft they will magically pick 1st again. Their rebuild will last five years or so to but they will literally try to lose for those years and hoard top 3 picks. They will cry for more revenue sharing and the like while they try to lose and have 8k people at their games.

Pitt no first in 2013, pick Kapanen 22 overall in 2014 and traded him, then no first in 15, 16, 17, or 18.

 

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Ok but they haven’t gone through their rebuild yet. That all happened after the rangers. Their time is coming. My point was there is no other team that has rebuilt that has done it with such an empty prospect base to start as of yet. The rangers have done a great job restocking but those players are all under 20.

If kakko figures it out great. But if he continues to struggle the answer isn’t just to let him figure it out. Being comfortable could also be removing him from the pressure of being anointed the next star in ny at 18. The rest of the team sucks. As the team struggles and continues to lose, the future is the point of focus. He’s the poster child of future hope. His success is being measured daily, as we are doing right now. I’m all for him figuring it out. If he’s -30 come Christmas with 10 points and giving interviews about how hockey isn’t fun for him anymore, I’m removing him from the pressure. He’s 18. His career will not be defined by whatever happens this year. Again he’s 18 playing for the ny rangers. Hockey should be a blast and he should be living a dream. He’s not right now. His struggles are effecting him personally. This isn’t about anyone’s expectation other than his own.

No team has ever traded their first four straight years while playing with a salary cap.