Long live the King

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I mean, it's a small sample size. The third line looks great right now, but I find it hard to buy the idea that a journeyman center with 4 goals and 15 points in nearly 40 games this season can't be upgraded on. So, vote of confidence? Feels like a step too far. That's what the two-year security/term is for.

I used to feel this way too, but honestly, I don't think the C matters much.  Cuylle is gonna Cuylle no matter what.  The difference maker is Kakko.

I was posted that the Rangers 3rd in GA/G (2.45) when Kakko was healthy, and dropped to 21st (3.29) when he was out.  I was told one player doesn't make that big of a difference, but since he's been healthy they are back to 4th (2.47).  On top of that Kakko has the 3rd line scoring just as much as the Trochek line at EV strength.  

RW is a much bigger need.

stopped 69 out of the last 70 indoors.  definitely had a rocky start to the season, but i wouldn't put a ton of stock in the outdoor game.  weird backdrops, wind, shadows, super bouncy boards.

7 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

For Trouba to say that leads me to believe this was as bad as it looked. My guess is Wheeler went into this likely thinking he had a year or 2 left to play. And for this to happen now, at this stage and where he is at, is the rehab to get back even worth it at this point? Not many elite teams are going to be looking to sign a player at his age coming off a major leg injury. So if he is looking to win, this may have been his last chance. So I do have a lot of sympathy for him, because if that’s how he goes, it’s a very brutal and unfair way to go.

He can still get his name on the cup this year...

2 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I don't get the point of hanging on to him (my desire for the Rangers to acquire aside). He's 30, they are absolute dogshit on the ice and they don't exactly have a roster that screams "lets hang on to a team leader whose played his best hockey already". 

Because Jenner doesn't want to leave.

4 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

It does indeed. And can you really blame them? Vesey went up and Bromance immediately lit the Garden up.

 

Also, to @Br4d's point - that's probably why they're content to let Berard and Othmann hang out in Hartford for longer. Lots of movement up and down, but leave the most key guys there if possible.

I'm not mad at it at all.  It would be cool to throw Othmann on the top line just for the outdoor game though.

53 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

With the way BCK has been playing, looks line first line Vesey.

17 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

I don’t see home going anywhere this summer. But I don’t want another guy on dead cap for 6 seasons. That’s not palatable. 
 

As for having to pay for his replacement, I hear you. 
But if you’re replacing him with a guy from the minors, it’s cheap. 
Just depends. 

 

Sure it's cheap, but in the end, after retention, you're only saving about a million bucks, while losing the pick you have to staple to Goodrow to get a team to take him.  

3 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

If you’re talking about moving on from Goodrow, I’d prefer a trade and retain as opposed to a buyout.

 

 

Retaining doesn't help.  If you retain 50%, you only get $1.8 million in cap space.  You then have to pay for Goodrow's replacement.  At that point it's not worth it.  Better to either keep him or buy him out.  Unless they find someone to take him without retention, I'd keep him for next year and buy him out in the summer of 2025.

I just can't unsee it.. 

His play has been admirable, but let's be honest.. 

When he first became a regular he had 6 points in 6 games.  During this win streak he has 5 points in 5 games.

In the middle he had 3 assists in 22 games.

Odds are there's another long drought coming and that's not good enough for your 3C.  I'm not mad at Edstrom's play but ideally Brodz is you 4th line LW.

Reverse hits happen all the time.

10 minutes ago, Br4d said:

Sergachev was definitely trying to run Laf and got the worst of it.  The injury was not the leg that got tied up with Laf but the left leg when he hit the ice.  Must have been a lot of weight landing on a very small part of the leg to break both bones.

 

I don't think anybody is going to try to run Laf again in that way any time soon.

It was just a freak accident.  His leg came down and the toe of his blade get stuck in the ice as his body kept going.

1. Artemi Panarin

2. Chris Kreider

3. Adam Fox

4. Vincent Trocheck

5. Mika Zibanejad

6. Alexis Lafrenière +1

7. Jacob Trouba

8. Ryan Lindgren 

9. Igor Shesterkin

10. Will Cuylle 

11. Jonathan Quick 

12. Jimmy Vesey

13. K'Andre Miller

14. Kaapo Kakko

15. Erik Gustafsson -1

16. Blake Wheeler

17. Braden Schneider 

18. Jonny Brodzinski

19. Barclay Goodrow

20. Zac Jones 

21. Tyler Pitlick

27 minutes ago, Br4d said:

 

The Rangers are never going to get backup goalie after backup goalie in the playoffs again.  That's why '21-'22 went so well.

 

Copp and Vatrano cost the Rangers a 1st, a 2nd, a 4th and a 5th.  They got back a 6th in exchange alongside Copp and Vatrano.

 

If they could find a Vatrano level player for a 4th I guess that's fine.  Odds they can do that?  Close to zero.

Now you're changing the parameters.  What does any of this have to do with how Copp and Vatrano fit in?

16 minutes ago, Br4d said:

The problem is the Rangers keep renting RW's and then they're gone the next season.  No point at all in doing that this year.  We saw what happens to the vet core when they get reinforcements last season.  They all stand around waiting for the new guy(s) to do something.

 

If Wheeler can't get it done in the playoffs put Jimmy Vesey up on RW with CK-MZ.  Fill the 4th line vacancy with a callup from Hartford, not necessarily Othmann.

 

At some point you have to make your stand and artificially pumping again with a rental is like punting instead.

You keep saying this, yet never mention the previous year when Copp and Vatrano came in just fine.

2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Stamkos broke his right tibia when he had that gruesome injury in Boston a few years back. 

In my research, they say Stamkos may have just fractured his tibia when he hit the post and then made it worse by trying to stand.  With the fracture, it would have been put in a cast for weeks, which would have the end result of muscle atrophy from not using the leg.  Trying to stand displaced the fracture, requiring a rod to be placed in the bone.  Although the surgery to place the rod is more invasive they say it actually has a quicker recovery time since you can walk on it sooner than the cast route, thus not needing to rebuild the leg's strength.  

With the way Sergahev's foot bent the wrong way, I'd guess he'll get rods placed in the tib and fib.  My sister had this done after a skiing injury.  My brother in law says when he got to her she was lying on her back and her foot was flopped to the side flat on the ground.  All that said, probably a similar timeline to Stamkos.

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Heard, chef, on all points. However, I'll caveat with this:

 

This isn't the same get as the Tarasenko/Kane's of the world who were brought in to play top line roles and expected to produce right out of the gate. This is a third-line center who would be brought in for his style of play, veteran presence, leadership qualities and scoring upside. If he comes in and doesn't score for the first half dozen games, it's really no harm, no foul. They just need to get him acclimated in time for the playoffs.

 

Also, this isn't a rental the way Tarasenko/Kane were. This is a three-year buy (well, two and change, but whatever).

True, I'm still skeptical of a guy that didn't even attempt to leave Columbus though.

41 minutes ago, Phil said:

Chris Johnston from latest Steve Dangle Podcast on Jenner:

 

"he's in demand because he's useful, doesn't make too much money and there's not a lot of players. They're going to keep getting calls and someone might push it over the line."

 

BOONE JENNYR. Let's goooooooooo.

Didn't we decide last year not to go after guys that spent their whole life with one team?  This is a dude that chose to resign in Columbus a year before he could have tested free agency.  He doesn't want to leave Columbus.  Is that really the guy to target?  Plus he's been banged up a lot the last 4 years.

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

I hear you, and I see your logic, I've said the same thing regarding blowing it it up, culture, and CK.

 

I just don't see the Rangers doing that. If they are moving a guy like Kreider, it's not going to be for a 30 year old IMO.

That's relative.  They're using the money now for a 30 yo, but they're able to get youth back in the actual trade.    If you envision a lineup next year of...

Panarin - Lindholm - Laf

Othmann - Zib - X

Cuylle - Tro - Vesey

Then the question is can you get a young cost-controlled RW back in the Kreider trade to fill in X?  Maybe they move Miller in the offseason to fill in for X and replace Miller in the Kreider trade.  Lots of possibilities.  

5 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

I also don't know if there'd be a huge market for Kreider, who gets a 15 team no trade clause starting july 1st

 

$6.5 mil for a 32 year old who will still have 3 years left on his deal won't be easy to move/get good value for. 

 

Also i wouldn't label Kreider as one of 'Gorton's Guys' as he's been a career Ranger for 12+ years or whatever it is. 

Gorton's guys are all the dudes he gave NMC's to that Drury has been stuck with.

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Guys at the end of their careers. That's not the same as trading a guy who's producing more than he ever has, to sign a 30 year old.

Yes, but guys you 'expected' to be career Rangers.  That's the only reason I brought them up.  McD was 28 and the captain.  As you've stated, if Drury wants a culture shift and to start moving away from Gorton's guys Kreider is the first to go.  

48 minutes ago, Pete said:

I would do this but I'm not sure the Rangers would. 

I don't think that's true.  Organizationally, they traded Leetch and bought out Hank.  For Drury, this would be his version of the letter and trading McD.  He'd be clearing the path for his 1st 1st round pick and sending a message to the remaining vets.  At the same time, he could recoup many of the assets he'll have to give up for Lindholm.  

50 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

I agree that it likely comes down to playing style. For the role in visioned for the third line, you probably want Trocheck there.

 

I would definitely try Elias with Bread to start.  You can always move it back. I'd be wondering about the chemistry between Elias and KK as well. I don't think trading KK is the answer, I think fixing him is. The problem is when he's not playing with Zib, he's playing with the scrubs. Hard to imagine anybody having much success with Brodzinski. What would Laf be doing on that line? Or anybody without an elite skill set? 

It's this.  Tro has been great....but we know what Lavi envisioned.  Chyitl was 2C until he got hurt and Tro started on the 3rd line because of their desired usage.  Additionally, Panarin is what's working there's not some untouchable chemistry going on.  While Tro has 46 points he's been incredibly streaky.   18 points in his first 13 games there.  Then 7 points in the next 11 games (which included 3 assists in 1 game so 4 points in the 10 others).  Then he went nuts again with 14 points in 9 games.  Now 3 points in the last 6.  Also, add in the fact that Tro leads forwards in TOI because he's used frequently for DZ draws.  

Now if you add Lindholm, you get a guy that's still good on draws for Bread in the OZ and relieves some of that burden on Tro.  You get an actual C that can win a draw for PP2.  You get a guy that's proven he can score with talented players.  Lavi can go back to his desired role for a 3rd line.  Cuylle and Tro would terrorize teams, always looking over your shoulder for Cuylle coming to cremate you and if you get past him Tro is there to annoy the everliving shit out of you.  I'd love Kakko on that line and really don't want to move him, but if it's required to get Lindholm so be it.

2 hours ago, Pete said:

You have to assume he's going to be a rental for us. They just don't have the cap. Even if you moved the players everybody suggests, goody, Miller, etc... You would have to move them and not take back any salary, but then of course you have to replace them... And someone is going to give Lindholm more than Trocheck got... Too rich for this team's blood.

 

Their solution at Center needs to come in at the same price point as Chytil, or less.... And frankly that would even be tough because if he ever becomes healthy enough to play over the next three seasons, they're going to have to take him off LTIR. 

If they sputter out of the playoffs again, trade Kreider give is money to Lindholm. 

https://www.ksl.com/article/50860077/utah-senate-throws-support-behind-effort-to-land-nhl-team