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Thread: NHL Lays Out Vision for 2021 Season in Private Call; Talks of January 13th Start Date

  1. #21
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    I guess Lafreniere will be at the WJC at this pace.

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    I don't think even a 50-50 revenue split under the circumstances is viable, because at 50% of a drastically reduced amount of revenue, the owners would not even be making up their fixed costs. If the players want to have a season and play in empty or nearly empty arenas, they have to take serious pay cuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sod16 View Post
    I don't think even a 50-50 revenue split under the circumstances is viable, because at 50% of a drastically reduced amount of revenue, the owners would not even be making up their fixed costs. If the players want to have a season and play in empty or nearly empty arenas, they have to take serious pay cuts.
    Probably true. But what's the long term costs of no season? Most but not all of the owners are wealthy enough to take the hit. But some aren't. That's how many less teams and jobs for players. Doubt any insurance policy is going to cover a full cancellation after last year's mess.

    If nothing else, would like to think Bettman and the NHL FINALLY move some weak sisters to markets that could work. First up; Coyotes should be in Quebec or KC or Houston. Enough of this charade.

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    Owners floating canceling 2020-21 Season

    Allan Walsh
    @walsha
    The NHL is soft floating the idea with media if no deal with the NHLPA is reached on the Return to Play, it can unilaterally invoke Force Majeure and cancel the 2020-21 season
    There are so many flaws to this, I donít know where to start. Does the NHL really think it can demand an additional $300M in concessions from players after negotiating the financial terms of the 20-21 season DURING the pandemic 4 months ago? 1h
    The Players agreed to accept 72% of their contracts due to the pandemic. NHL owners cannot now assert they donít like the deal, demand $300M more from the Players and if the Players donít give in, cancel the season by invoking Force Majeure
    1h
    In reality, if the NHL cancels the 20-21 season because the Players wonít give another $300M in concessions, that is a LOCKOUT, which is expressly prohibited by CBA Art. 7.1 (b) If the NHL lawyers are advising owners they have a winning case here, I suggest they go back to law school. Owners will be subjecting themselves to billions in potential damages if they falsely invoke Force Majeure to cancel the season. End


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    I’m calling bullshit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Al View Post
    Allan Walsh
    @walsha
    The NHL is soft floating the idea with media if no deal with the NHLPA is reached on the Return to Play, it can unilaterally invoke Force Majeure and cancel the 2020-21 season
    There are so many flaws to this, I don’t know where to start. Does the NHL really think it can demand an additional $300M in concessions from players after negotiating the financial terms of the 20-21 season DURING the pandemic 4 months ago? 1h
    The Players agreed to accept 72% of their contracts due to the pandemic. NHL owners cannot now assert they don’t like the deal, demand $300M more from the Players and if the Players don’t give in, cancel the season by invoking Force Majeure
    1h
    In reality, if the NHL cancels the 20-21 season because the Players won’t give another $300M in concessions, that is a LOCKOUT, which is expressly prohibited by CBA Art. 7.1 (b) If the NHL lawyers are advising owners they have a winning case here, I suggest they go back to law school. Owners will be subjecting themselves to billions in potential damages if they falsely invoke Force Majeure to cancel the season. End


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    Spoken as if he were a player agent.

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    Wouldn’t be a Jerry Bettman off-season if there wasn’t at least a hint of lockout.

    Hilarious that guy is in the hall of fame.
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    Doesn't appear to be anything in a google search about the NHL or any teams collecting on any insurance policy under some "force majeure" clause for last season. Highly doubtful even if they got a little $ under such policies last season any insurer would pay out again.

    Without games and TV money how do you keep things going? Reverse 3rd jerseys only create so much revenue. Would like to think with vaccines right there by sometime in early spring you could have fans in attendance.

    Best course of action for all; make the best of it and play a truncated season. Lots of industries are having a dog's breakfast. Dig in and shut up about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
    Doesn't appear to be anything in a google search about the NHL or any teams collecting on any insurance policy under some "force majeure" clause for last season. Highly doubtful even if they got a little $ under such policies last season any insurer would pay out again.

    Without games and TV money how do you keep things going? Reverse 3rd jerseys only create so much revenue. Would like to think with vaccines right there by sometime in early spring you could have fans in attendance.

    Best course of action for all; make the best of it and play a truncated season. Lots of industries are having a dog's breakfast. Dig in and shut up about it.
    The most interesting thing is how some of the owners - and there are quite a few (Dolan, Stan Kroenke, MLSE, Leonsis, the Pegulas) - who own multiple franchises could invoke a Force Majeure on the NHL when their other teams are playing. It's an almost comically bad legal argument.

    Regardless, this is the ultimate shot in the foot for the NHL if the owners go through with it. I believe Walsh is actually right here - this would be a massive legal case for the PA against the owners, and they'd probably win. Further, short term gain, sure, but fuckers, your TV contract is both horrible and up for renegotiation next year. Get your product out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    The most interesting thing is how some of the owners - and there are quite a few (Dolan, Stan Kroenke, MLSE, Leonsis, the Pegulas) - who own multiple franchises could invoke a Force Majeure on the NHL when their other teams are playing. It's an almost comically bad legal argument.

    Regardless, this is the ultimate shot in the foot for the NHL if the owners go through with it. I believe Walsh is actually right here - this would be a massive legal case for the PA against the owners, and they'd probably win. Further, short term gain, sure, but fuckers, your TV contract is both horrible and up for renegotiation next year. Get your product out.
    the NHL is obsessed with 1) trying wayyyyy to hard to appeal to new fans that won't watch or if they do, won't stay that they will ruin it for their existing fans, and 2) destroying all posibilities of growing their game
    __________________________________

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    I was wondering about the season being a loss. The NBA ended after the NHL, and they are already having training camp and are starting around Christmas. The NHL is no where near ready to start camps, there is no way they have a season at this point. The NHL has screwed up in so many ways dealing with the players. Worst part is, they bout out Hank and now didn't have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    The most interesting thing is how some of the owners - and there are quite a few (Dolan, Stan Kroenke, MLSE, Leonsis, the Pegulas) - who own multiple franchises could invoke a Force Majeure on the NHL when their other teams are playing. It's an almost comically bad legal argument.

    Regardless, this is the ultimate shot in the foot for the NHL if the owners go through with it. I believe Walsh is actually right here - this would be a massive legal case for the PA against the owners, and they'd probably win. Further, short term gain, sure, but fuckers, your TV contract is both horrible and up for renegotiation next year. Get your product out.
    When it comes to a CBA, if you dont have the money, you dont have the money. NHL Owners would be required to open their books and show a loss.

    You cant force a company to operate when they are losing money.
    Courts dont usually rule against companies that have to make financial decisions based on 'acts of god'. The NHL went and said, "we cant successfully function unless ____ ." Players said no. Ok, no season.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    I was wondering about the season being a loss. The NBA ended after the NHL, and they are already having training camp and are starting around Christmas. The NHL is no where near ready to start camps, there is no way they have a season at this point. The NHL has screwed up in so many ways dealing with the players. Worst part is, they bout out Hank and now didn't have to.
    Blame Canada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    When it comes to a CBA, if you dont have the money, you dont have the money. NHL Owners would be required to open their books and show a loss.

    You cant force a company to operate when they are losing money.
    Courts dont usually rule against companies that have to make financial decisions based on 'acts of god'. The NHL went and said, "we cant successfully function unless ____ ." Players said no. Ok, no season.
    They also came to an agreement 4 months ago, and the owners now are demanding they change that agreement. Legally, they can't do it, and I also wonder what that does to the CBA because this would technically be a breach of contract by the owners.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    They also came to an agreement 4 months ago, and the owners now are demanding they change that agreement. Legally, they can't do it, and I also wonder what that does to the CBA because this would technically be a breach of contract by the owners.
    Yes, four months ago, when their data was different. The league is operating on new data now that shows it can't operate under these conditions or the agreement they signed four months ago. I'm normally extremely pro player in these scenarios, but in this one, I'm not. It's as simple as this: we know we agreed, but things have changed, and we can't honor it. We need additional deferrals if you want to play this year, and if you can't agree to that in good faith, we very likely will not play at all. So, you can either agree to reductions so you can earn some portion of what you are owed with a promise to pay back the rest at a later date, or you can earn nothing at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Yes, four months ago, when their data was different. The league is operating on new data now that shows it can't operate under these conditions or the agreement they signed four months ago. I'm normally extremely pro player in these scenarios, but in this one, I'm not. It's as simple as this: we know we agreed, but things have changed, and we can't honor it. We need additional deferrals if you want to play this year, and if you can't agree to that in good faith, we very likely will not play at all. So, you can either agree to reductions so you can earn some portion of what you are owed with a promise to pay back the rest at a later date, or you can earn nothing at all.
    But what has changed in 4 months? We are still in the same position we were 8 months ago. These owners should have known that back then, if not, then they were ignorant. I don't see saying either you give us this much back, or we are shutting it all down for the season as bargaining in good faith. Seems like the players are being asked to give up more than the owners are willing to concede.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    They also came to an agreement 4 months ago, and the owners now are demanding they change that agreement. Legally, they can't do it, and I also wonder what that does to the CBA because this would technically be a breach of contract by the owners.
    They cant do it unilaterally or arbitrarily.

    If theres an "act of god" that forces changes, in this case, mostly financial, they can go back to the PA and say, "here's the situation...." They did. Players said no. Ok, then theres no hockey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But what has changed in 4 months? We are still in the same position we were 8 months ago. These owners should have known that back then, if not, then they were ignorant. I don't see saying either you give us this much back, or we are shutting it all down for the season as bargaining in good faith. Seems like the players are being asked to give up more than the owners are willing to concede.
    That's why I said the NHL & owners would be required to support this, usually by 'opening their books'.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But what has changed in 4 months? We are still in the same position we were 8 months ago. These owners should have known that back then, if not, then they were ignorant. I don't see saying either you give us this much back, or we are shutting it all down for the season as bargaining in good faith. Seems like the players are being asked to give up more than the owners are willing to concede.
    Their projections, most likely, but as Josh indicated, they'd need to prove this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    They cant do it unilaterally or arbitrarily.

    If theres an "act of god" that forces changes, in this case, mostly financial, they can go back to the PA and say, "here's the situation...." They did. Players said no. Ok, then theres no hockey.
    The problem is that the “act of god” was happening when they signed onto this. They knew then what was going on. It would be like if you booked something at the beginning of the year and it was cancelled because of the pandemic and you got your money back. You can’t book it again for now, and then say you want all your money back because the pandemic is still going on, that was the decision you made knowing things weren’t getting better and knowing that there was a second round coming.

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