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Shane Falco
05-16-2018, 09:00 PM
Off-Season Game Plan looks at a Rangers team that could take the time to build through the draft – they have five picks in the first two rounds this year – but to do that they will have to resist temptation to do a quick rebuild.


Where this gets more challenging is when it comes to whether GM Jeff Gorton can hold the picks that he acquired when embarking on the rebuilding effort. If the Rangers stock their system this year, that really should pay off down the road. It just requires some patience, which isn’t a trait for which this franchise is famous.

https://www.tsn.ca/off-season-game-plan-new-york-rangers-1.1087432

He goes on to give some interesting suggestions in regards to drafting and what the roster could look like next year.

Phil in Absentia
05-16-2018, 09:11 PM
His projected roster is everything internal plus Cam Ward and Kovalchuk. If the goal is traditional rebuild, I'm down.


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Shane Falco
05-16-2018, 09:15 PM
His projected roster is everything internal plus Cam Ward and Kovalchuk. If the goal is traditional rebuild, I'm down.


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Yea, can't say I disagree with his approach. But that would take patience from Rangers brass. I'm okay with doing it right instead of rushing to be competitive again. This franchise was "competitive" for years without being able to get the job done. Take a different approach this time around.

Pete
05-16-2018, 09:56 PM
Article is trash. Not well thought out.

Phil in Absentia
05-16-2018, 11:36 PM
Well, he rides the fence the entire time based on the fact he can't project whether they're legitimately rebuilding or not.

Sod16
05-17-2018, 01:23 AM
Article is trash. Not well thought out.

Correct. A very disappointing article from someone who obviously did not watch this team very much and relies too heavily on stats in general and advanced stats in particular. He says Shattenkirk didn't play well and then got hurt, obviously ignorant of the fact that he was hurt to begin with and eventually opted for surgery when he just couldn't do it anymore. He touts the now outdated 2016-17 view of Staal, when everyone who watches the team agrees that he was better than expected and not the problem in 2017-18. He rattles through the roster and has guys like Holland, Gilmour and Nieves battling for spots next year when we all know they are simply not in the picture. He doesn't know Pionk from Randy Moeller and casts doubt on him on the basis of... possession stats. Your average regular poster on this forum has a more informed perspective.

RangersIn7
05-17-2018, 02:35 AM
Really not worth reading. No real insight and no keen observation.

Future
05-17-2018, 10:55 AM
His projected roster is everything internal plus Cam Ward and Kovalchuk. If the goal is traditional rebuild, I'm down.


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But...why do you sign either of those guys if you don't plan on being good next year?

Kovalchuk only makes sense if you also get Tavares/EK/Gretzky. Cam Ward only makes sense if you don't think Georgiev is ready to be a backup on a competitive team (which, compared to Cam Ward...lol).

Future
05-17-2018, 10:56 AM
Really not worth reading. No real insight and no keen observation.
This is meant for the fans of the 30 other teams, not Rangers fans.

It's a lot more palatable if you keep that context in mind lol

Phil in Absentia
05-17-2018, 11:56 AM
But...why do you sign either of those guys if you don't plan on being good next year?

Kovalchuk only makes sense if you also get Tavares/EK/Gretzky. Cam Ward only makes sense if you don't think Georgiev is ready to be a backup on a competitive team (which, compared to Cam Ward...lol).

Because you can't ice a team of teenagers and you probably want to have some veteran scoring on the roster to help bring the young guys along in a losing environment. Takes a special type to handle that role without poisoning the well.

Ward would also make sense if you know you'll lose but want to build the most competitive AHL roster you can to bring along a bunch of guys who you think will be part of your future that you want learning to win while the big club sorts itself out.

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josh
05-17-2018, 12:03 PM
fuck cam ward

Giacomin
05-17-2018, 01:54 PM
cam ward?




































is he russian?

Future
05-17-2018, 02:15 PM
Because you can't ice a team of teenagers and you probably want to have some veteran scoring on the roster to help bring the young guys along in a losing environment. Takes a special type to handle that role without poisoning the well.

Ward would also make sense if you know you'll lose but want to build the most competitive AHL roster you can to bring along a bunch of guys who you think will be part of your future that you want learning to win while the big club sorts itself out.

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If you're not trying to win, why can't you?

Also...Kreider, Zib, Zucc? Hayes? Fast? Namestnikov/Spooner? Vesey and Buch are going into their third year. You could ice nearly an entire top-9 of guys who are all in at least their third year. How many veterans do you need? Chytil and Andersson are the only teenagers and, depending on the draft, might be the only rookies in the lineup. Maybe one more on D. The Rangers would have to do impossible offloading to ice a team of teenagers.

There are plenty of vet goalies capable of being competitive in the AHL, I don't see how Georgiev is going to get any better there.

josh
05-17-2018, 02:18 PM
Kreider, Zib, Zucc? Hayes? Fast? Namestnikov/Spooner? Vesey and Buch are going into their third year. You could ice nearly an entire top-9 of guys who are all in at least their third year. How many veterans do you need? Chytil and Andersson are the only teenagers and, depending on the draft, might be the only rookies in the lineup. Maybe one more on D. The Rangers would have to do impossible offloading to ice a team of teenagers.
It didnt seem to work last season. How do you think it works to success with an even younger roster?

culture matters.



There are plenty of vet goalies capable of being competitive in the AHL, I don't see how Georgiev is going to get any better there.

obviously - more playing time.

Future
05-17-2018, 02:28 PM
It didnt seem to work last season. How do you think it works to success with an even younger roster?

culture matters.



obviously - more playing time.
If they're not trying to win, then success isn't the point.

Kovalchuk doesn't add anything to the culture that Zucc and Kreider don't.

50 games in the AHL < 25 games in the NHL. And if they aren't really trying to win, 25 should be the minimum number of games he plays.

josh
05-17-2018, 02:38 PM
riiiiiight...

Giacomin
05-17-2018, 03:31 PM
efff that, ya gotta earn a spot. Georgie earned the right to earn the backup spot in camp. He'll learn plenty here in the pros behind Hank, with Allaire. This is a rebuild fellas, time to develop players when they are ready to take the next step. Don't want to rush or stunt development for any other agenda.

BTW, Georgie is probably more ready than Lias. Have any of the kids shown they are done in the AHL except Pionk and maybe Chytil and Georgie?

josh
05-17-2018, 04:16 PM
efff that, ya gotta earn a spot. Georgie earned the right to earn the backup spot in camp. He'll learn plenty here in the pros behind Hank, with Allaire. This is a rebuild fellas, time to develop players when they are ready to take the next step. Don't want to rush or stunt development for any other agenda.

BTW, Georgie is probably more ready than Lias. Have any of the kids shown they are done in the AHL except Pionk and maybe Chytil and Georgie?
first off, I don't want Cam Ward. I'm fine with Georgie porgie, but throwing him to the wolves behind a shit defense rarely helps the development of young goaltenders (Not that this situation would be any different in Hartford)

And the bolded contradicts itself and everything you hated about AV.

I think our main prospects are ready to take the next step.
This doesnt mean throwing Chytil on the top line and expecting 70 points. Don't need to throw them to the wolves, or set the up for failure, but, as you mentioned, I think a lot of these guys will develop more at the NHL level, than in the AHL. (which is why you have vets to take those minutes, pressure, assignments, etc... ease them in)
But, Hartford is horrible. Keep guys away, if possible.

Giacomin
05-17-2018, 04:54 PM
first off, I don't want Cam Ward. I'm fine with Georgie porgie, but throwing him to the wolves behind a shit defense rarely helps the development of young goaltenders (Not that this situation would be any different in Hartford)

And the bolded contradicts itself and everything you hated about AV.

I think our main prospects are ready to take the next step.
This doesnt mean throwing Chytil on the top line and expecting 70 points. Don't need to throw them to the wolves, or set the up for failure, but, as you mentioned, I think a lot of these guys will develop more at the NHL level, than in the AHL. (which is why you have vets to take those minutes, pressure, assignments, etc... ease them in)
But, Hartford is horrible. Keep guys away, if possible.

Interesting comments. First, let's hope Gorton, Drury and Co make drastic steps forward with Hartford this year. We should have Howden, Hajek, Lindgren, Ronning and other young talent and a couple of new picks. They'll get decent support from Belesky, Gilmour, O'Gara among a few others.

Second, I can see how it seems contradictory, but I am specifically talking about Lias and his specific development. Plus there is no reason paint everyone's development path and timeframe with the same brush. Lias needs to develop his skating and offensive skills more. If that is better done in Hartford and he does not outright earn a job where the new coach can get him 15-16 minutes per, then he can start the year in Hartford with goals in mind.

Chytil is probably ready for a shot and Georgie looked ready. Georgie will be even better with some stability beginning the year in NY with Allaire. And some D structure in front of him. And Hank.

Pionk (btw, older) has nothing to learn in the A and needs to now develop into a reliable Ranger.

ThirtyONE
05-17-2018, 07:06 PM
Pionk has plenty to learn. He's only been a pro for less than a year. All the guys have shit to learn. It's weather or not they're skilled enough to be competitive in the NHL. I think Pionk is, but on a good team, he's not an NHL player yet.

jsrangers
05-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Pionk has plenty to learn. He's only been a pro for less than a year. All the guys have shit to learn. It's weather or not they're skilled enough to be competitive in the NHL. I think Pionk is, but on a good team, he's not an NHL player yet.

Agreed! a lot of people in my opinion banking on half the roster magically being drastically better just by rolling in a new coach. I don't see it from most of the marginally talented guys on this roster. We have way too many middle of the road and below here currently.

ThirtyONE
05-17-2018, 07:49 PM
Agreed! a lot of people in my opinion banking on half the roster magically being drastically better just by rolling in a new coach. I don't see it from most of the marginally talented guys on this roster. We have way too many middle of the road and below here currently.

We don't have an NHL roster at this point. I think there are 7 forwards with contracts. None are 1st line players. The defense is in even worse shape. So that said, the Rangers have work to do. If they want to ice a competitive team, that'll mean making a lot of trades and signing a lot of players. If they don't really care about the outcome and hope to finish anywhere from 8th - 13th then you'll see a lot of the young guys in the lineup. Pionk will probably make the team but that doesn't mean he doesn't have shit to learn. He's got plenty to learn.

Giacomin
05-17-2018, 08:47 PM
Pionk has plenty to learn. He's only been a pro for less than a year. All the guys have shit to learn. It's weather or not they're skilled enough to be competitive in the NHL. I think Pionk is, but on a good team, he's not an NHL player yet.

You misunderstood, I said in the A, as in AHL. He has nothing to gain going back to Hartford. He'll be 23 this summer. He has plenty to learn, but he needs to do it in NY, playing at NHL speed. Of all the young defenders, he earned a spot. I want to see what he can do with it.

Lias and Chytil are much younger and did not have a college career. The Rangers could determine that Hartford is the right learning environment for either to start the season. They won't do that will Pionk. That does not mean he is better or a finished product.

Pete
05-17-2018, 09:28 PM
It didnt seem to work last season. How do you think it works to success with an even younger roster?

culture matters.



obviously - more playing time.You're way over-blowing this culture of losing thing.

Culture of losing is created when losing is accepted with no consequence. Culture of losing is NOT created when young developing players who hate to lose (hey [emoji966] tosser...step up!) Go through growing pains.

ThirtyONE
05-17-2018, 09:44 PM
You misunderstood, I said in the A, as in AHL. He has nothing to gain going back to Hartford. He'll be 23 this summer. He has plenty to learn, but he needs to do it in NY, playing at NHL speed. Of all the young defenders, he earned a spot. I want to see what he can do with it.

Lias and Chytil are much younger and did not have a college career. The Rangers could determine that Hartford is the right learning environment for either to start the season. They won't do that will Pionk. That does not mean he is better or a finished product.

No. I understood. Assuming there's nothing to learn at the lower levels is a mistake. He needs to learn how to be a pro and could learn that in the A with less pressure, but because the Rangers suck he'll likely learn that in the spotlight which is never an easy thing.

Giacomin
05-18-2018, 09:19 AM
No. I understood. Assuming there's nothing to learn at the lower levels is a mistake. He needs to learn how to be a pro and could learn that in the A with less pressure, but because the Rangers suck he'll likely learn that in the spotlight which is never an easy thing.

I guess it is a judgement call, but Pionk isn't an 18 to 22 y/o kid, who is just getting used to being away from his parents and still growing out of his clothes. Pionk spent a few years in the USHL, then a few years at U of Minn, before playing the year at Hartford.

I'm not sure what you specifically mean by 'learning to be a pro' when it comes to Pionk. In my judgement he has the maturity, smarts, attitude, work ethic, skating and fundamental skills to be a pro now. What he needs to work on at this point is not something he is going to get enough of in the minors. Playing and making consistently good decisions at NHL speed. Working within an NHL team structure and system. Covering and defending very talented NHL forwards, gap control and when to take offensive chances.

Working on these things in the NHL will expedite his development. Besides his shot and shot accuracy, which he can work on anywhere, the other areas require a step-up in competition in order to make more than just marginal improvements.

Lastly, as of now he seems to be the only D prospect on the team that is ready to fill a spot and we have massive openings on D. The only vets are Skjei, Staal and Shatty. D'Angelo and Shatty are the only right handers, both coming off injuries. Pionk played 28 NHL games, showed visible improvement during that span and averaged .5 points per. Who else should be in the mix for a roster spot on D? I'm sure you don't want to rush the younger Hajek or even Lindgren, neither have even played a minute in the A. Adding a vet in the off season still leaves 2 openings on D.

RJWantsTheCup
05-18-2018, 09:41 AM
Sadly barring any off season acquisitions the d next season would be Skjei, Staal, Smith, Pionk, Shattenkirk and D'Angelo.

Giacomin
05-18-2018, 11:17 AM
Sadly barring any off season acquisitions the d next season would be Skjei, Staal, Smith, Pionk, Shattenkirk and D'Angelo.

And Smith hasn't earned the right to assume a spot in camp. He has something to prove and has to grab it by the balls. He needs to be in the best shape of his life, demonstrate extensive effort and discipline and ingratiate himself with the new staff. Show me. Until he does that I'm not penciling him in. And I loved Smith's play in the playoffs.