Staple Drury Not Happy With Panarin's Performance in Playoffs

[josh]

I think we can assume part of this conversation asked Panarin his wants and needs for a more impactful playoff run next season.  

[BrooksBurner]

7 minutes ago, josh said:

I think we can assume part of this conversation asked Panarin his wants and needs for a more impactful playoff run next season.  

“Re-sign Stromer” at the top of both of those lists for Panarin.

 

[Pete]

39 minutes ago, Capt said:

They didn't?  2013-14 they finished with 101 points and lost in a first round sweep.  The next year they had 108 points and lost in the Cup Final beating the their trade partner Rangers in the ECF.  They acquired Cirelli in the same trade whose been a lynchpin in years of success and cups.  

 

The difference between the St. Louis trade and McD trade is that the McD trade was for pure rebuilding.  Picks and prospects while the St' Louis trade was established players plus plus.  Big difference.

 

The idea of trading Panarin is nothing like trading McD.  The Rangers would only be interested in acquiring NHL talent back as the main piece of a deal.  Like the JT Miller plus Podkolzin or Hollander deal I put forth.  I have never advocated for a Panarin for picks and prospects.  

If the idea of trading Panarin is nothing like trading St louis, then why did you reference St Louis? 

 

Remind me what Callahan did with all that success Tampa had? He had eight points in the playoffs and was a fourth liner by his second season. 

 

And yes I referenced Cirelli which only proves that you don't read other people's posts. You're not interested in having a discussion you're just interested in spouting your opinion. 

[Capt]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

If the idea of trading Panarin is nothing like trading St louis, then why did you reference St Louis? 

 

Remind me what Callahan did with all that success Tampa had? He had eight points in the playoffs and was a fourth liner by his second season. 

 

And yes I referenced Cirelli which only proves that you don't read other people's posts. You're not interested in having a discussion you're just interested in spouting your opinion. 

You're not interested in having a discussion.  You are interested in assigning thoughts to people by putting words in their mouths.  The St Louis trade is like this situation.  The McD trade was not.  The St. Louis trade is actually a good representation.  Panarin for an established player like Miller plus a guy like Podkolzin or Hollander.  (St. Louis for Callahan plus 2 1sts)

 

The point is Tampa got better.  You said they got worse, that's wrong.  Who cares what Callahan did or didn't do.  Tampa made the trade and got assets back and didn't skip a beat in fact it set them up for multiple cups and assets in the system that made it possible to make the McD trade in the future.  Every move and every dollar spent affects every future move and future contract.  Panarin at $11.5M is a contract he only lives up to when he's playing at Hart trophy levels.  Patron is going to 31 by the start of next season.  His best years are probably behind him.  His best years don't match up with the rest of this roster.  This team is in it's infancy of contending.  The cap situation is only going to get worse year by year as these elc's end.  If this year isn't the year that Panarin's contract is untenable than great.  To me it's reached that point now.

[Capt]

And how did I not read other people's posts?  I quoted your post referencing Cirelli.  I wasn't even thinking Cirelli until you brought him up only making my point even better.  Tampa traded a top 10 scorer and got better.  It also help set them up for another decade of success.  

 

Stop with the bullshit.  I read your posts along with every other post.  I'm responding in good faith with my opinion.  I'm not getting nasty with you.  You know nothing about me yet constantly place labels or assumptions my way.  

[Capt]

Seriously no one here would think about Panarin to the Jets for Schiffle plus?

[BrooksBurner]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

Seriously no one here would think about Panarin to the Jets for Schiffle plus?

 

Why waste your time? Panarin would never in a million years entertain going to Winnipeg. At least pick a realistic destination 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

You're not interested in having a discussion.  You are interested in assigning thoughts to people by putting words in their mouths.  The St Louis trade is like this situation.  The McD trade was not.  The St. Louis trade is actually a good representation.  Panarin for an established player like Miller plus a guy like Podkolzin or Hollander.  (St. Louis for Callahan plus 2 1sts)

 

The point is Tampa got better.  You said they got worse, that's wrong.  Who cares what Callahan did or didn't do.  Tampa made the trade and got assets back and didn't skip a beat in fact it set them up for multiple cups and assets in the system that made it possible to make the McD trade in the future.  Every move and every dollar spent affects every future move and future contract.  Panarin at $11.5M is a contract he only lives up to when he's playing at Hart trophy levels.  Patron is going to 31 by the start of next season.  His best years are probably behind him.  His best years don't match up with the rest of this roster.  This team is in it's infancy of contending.  The cap situation is only going to get worse year by year as these elc's end.  If this year isn't the year that Panarin's contract is untenable than great.  To me it's reached that point now.

They didn't get better in the immediate because they moved MSL and got a great package back.

 

The best piece of the package was Cirelli who didn't arrive until years later. 

 

So again are you willing to wait years to get better?

 

How is Vancouver affording Panarin with their cap? 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Capt said:

And how did I not read other people's posts?  I quoted your post referencing Cirelli.  I wasn't even thinking Cirelli until you brought him up only making my point even better.  Tampa traded a top 10 scorer and got better.  It also help set them up for another decade of success.  

 

Stop with the bullshit.  I read your posts along with every other post.  I'm responding in good faith with my opinion.  I'm not getting nasty with you.  You know nothing about me yet constantly place labels or assumptions my way.  

But they didn't get better LOL. You repeating it doesn't make it true. 

 

MSL was fucking 39 not 29.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Pete

[NEKRanger]

Why do Rangers fans do this to ourselves? - Trading Panarin is not a good idea and shouldn't even be considered.   

Isn't it possible that (a) teams keyed on stopping him in particular during the playoffs and (b) his center playing hurt had a negative impact?

[BrooksBurner]

11 hours ago, Capt said:

I agree they are not trading him.  That doesn't menthe shouldn't listen to offers and see what's out there.  Before this post season he was untouchable.  After this post season and with the cap situation I would hope the Rangers are art least exploring what's the market for him.  I actually think there is less interest in him than people think.  He's carrying a $11.5M cap hit.  Most teams aren't willing to tie that up in a player who's a shrinking violet no matter how talented they are.

 

 I know I'm alone in this thinking but I think now is time you can still trade him before his contract seriously neuters this team's window down the line.  

 

Here's a trade idea:

Panarin to Vancouver

JT Miller and either Podkolzin or Hollander to NY Rangers 

 

Vancouver is actually one of the very few destinations I could see if it ever were to happen, but I don't think Panarin waives to go anywhere unless Strome signs at the same destination.

 

Panarin and Strome's rights (re-signed 6 yrs $6.5M) for JT Miller (re-signed 7 yrs $8.5M) and Connor Garland. Something like that.

Edited June 28, 2022 by rmc51

[Scott]

I would bet my sack and everybody else's here Strome could sign a lifetime deal with the Jets today and with a gun to his head and Putin at his front door Panarin isn't saying yes to going there, ever.

 

I think the odds of him being moved anywhere at this time are 0.0. I'm also not the least bit upset Drury called him out, I don't think it means anything other than a "we need you to be better next time around".

Edited June 28, 2022 by jsrangers

[RichieNextel305]

And if I’m Panarin, if my GM tells me that and it breaks me, I realize I’m a soft little pussy. I don’t think he is that. I think he is a proud player who will bounce back. Hopefully this is a swift kick in the balls for him to go wild next year.

 

Anyone who watches the Rangers consistently knows that he was off in the playoffs. 6 goals, 10 assists in 20

games isn’t a bad stat line to have. But for a player of Panarins caliber, it’s not good enough. And I think Panarin knows this, and hopefully that will fuel him for the next time around. We made it to within 2 games of a Final with Panarin playing ordinary hockey. 
 

Im confident he will bounce back. He had an off year and had 96 points. Again, to the naked eye, fantastic numbers. But we all watch game in and game out and we all know he wasn’t the same guy he was his first 2 years here. Hopefully this serves as a bit of fuel for a bounce back season.

Edited June 28, 2022 by RichieNextel305

[Pete]

4 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

6 goals, 10 assists in 20

games isn’t a bad stat line to have.

So imagine what his line is going to be if he's even marginally better. 

 

People also need to realize his first few years Fox wasn't what he is, Mika had long COVID, Kreider wasn't having a career year. There's gonna be another player getting the spotlight sometimes.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Pete

[Capt]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

But they didn't get better LOL. You repeating it doesn't make it true. 

 

MSL was fucking 39 not 29.

How do you measure them being  better?  A better record would seem logical.  You repeating they didn't doesn't make it true either.  I have posted their record as evidence they got better.  You have posted nothing that disputes them not being better other than opinion. 

[Capt]

St. Louis at the time of the trade was a point per game player and a year removed in leading the league in scoring.  Not sure how he's not considered an elite talent at the time of the trade.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Capt said:

How do you measure them being  better?  A better record would seem logical.  You repeating they didn't doesn't make it true either.  I have posted their record as evidence they got better.  You have posted nothing that disputes them not being better other than opinion. 

Because it's very clear that they didn't get better by replacing a 90 point player with a 50-point player and that there were many other factors involved that had nothing to do with the trade, because everything they got from the trade didn't come to fruition until many years later and we can't wait for that if we trade Panarin. 

 

At some point common sense needs to take over. 

 

You're also talking about a team that does way better with managing the cap and managing the draft then we do.

 

And even if I agreed with you, which I don't, okay cool we now have two trades where the team sending away the better player got better.. and even those two trades are highly debatable.

 

So yeah, I'm not about to send away the most talented scorer we've had in a decade because he had a mediocre playoff. 

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Capt said:

St. Louis at the time of the trade was a point per game player and a year removed in leading the league in scoring.  Not sure how he's not considered an elite talent at the time of the trade.

Show me who said he wasn't an elite talent at the time of the trade?

[Capt]

Just now, Pete said:

Because it's very clear that they didn't get better by replacing a 90 point player with a 50-point player and that there were many other factors involved that had nothing to do with the trade, because everything they got from the trade didn't come to fruition until many years later and we can't wait for that if we trade Panarin. 

 

At some point common sense needs to take over. 

 

You're also talking about a team that does way better with managing the cap and managing the draft then we do.

 

And even if I agreed with you, which I don't, okay cool we now have two trades where the team sending away the better player got better.. and even those two trades are highly debatable.

 

So yeah, I'm not about to send away the most talented scorer we've had in a decade because he had a mediocre playoff. 

Ok fine.  The team improved though and that is not debatable.  You have finally brought up the cap in your discussion and that is a huge factor in all of this.  Panarin is a great talent and in a precap league the Rangers could afford to wait to see if the playoffs were a fluke.  But in a cap league the rangers wait and they lose other important roster pieces due to the cap.  They fill in their roster with league minimum hacks because of the cap.  They go bargain bin shopping for second line centers because of the cap.  Panarin makes up 15% of the cap.  He's the highest paid player in the league not named McDavid.  He signed his contract 3-4 years ago and no-one other than McDavid has signed one since at a higher AAV. Nobody should have too guess if he will be better or if he will show up in the playoffs.  At $11.5M that should be automatic.  

 

You're opinion is fair.  You're point about him not going anywhere is fair and I agree with you there.  The cap is the point here for me.  Vancouver is supposedly shopping Miller and Horvat.  The two of them make up $11.5M combined for this year.  It may take more than Panarin to get both, maybe Panarin and Lundqvist.  But with Strome off the books the Rangers are playing with $16M in cap to replace Strome and Panarin.  Horvat and Miller would replace them and save them cap. Miller at $8M and Horvat at most at $7M.  Saving $1m which could go to Motte.

Lineup:

Kredier Zib Blais

Miller Horvat Kravtsov

Laff Chytil Kakko

Motte Rooney Goodrow

 

To me that's a much better playoff team.  Otthmann and Cuyille could both push themselves into that lineup as well

 

 

[BrooksBurner]

Long offseason guys. Make sure to save some of that gas in the tank on a topic more realistic than trading Panarin lol

[Capt]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Show me who said he wasn't an elite talent at the time of the trade?

Sorry you brought up his age, which has no basis in this discussion

[Capt]

And if you wanted a shutdown line you could make your third line this

Kreider Zib Chytil

Laf Miller Kravtsov

Goodrow Horvat Kakko

Blais Rooney Motte

[RichieNextel305]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

So imagine what his line is going to be if he's even marginally better. 

 

People also need to realize his first few years Fox wasn't what he is, Mika had long COVID, Kreider wasn't having a career year. There's gonna be another player getting the spotlight sometimes.

Exactly, and that’s my point.

 

I think Panarin has pride. If Drury was vocal about his performance, Panarin doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy to curl in a ball and cry, he strikes me as the kind of guy who will come back and make sure he’s better.

[RichieNextel305]

Listen, go back in the GDT’s during the playoffs. Never mind trading him; I was ready to send him back to Russia in a USPS box. I was infuriated in the heat of the moment. I admit that.

 

But again, once you calm down, take a step back and are able to breathe, you realize his importance. If we want to get where we want to get, we need him. We hitched our wagon to him. That’s our money guy. Obviously, he didn’t have an all-world playoff. He needs to be better. But he isn’t going anywhere. I don’t get why this is even a discussion. This was a discussion to have during the intermission of one of the GDT’s where emotions were sky high; not weeks after elimination where we all calm down. Because hardly any realistic scenario exists where Drury is trading away Panarin this summer.

[BrooksBurner]

4 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

Exactly, and that’s my point.

 

I think Panarin has pride. If Drury was vocal about his performance, Panarin doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy to curl in a ball and cry, he strikes me as the kind of guy who will come back and make sure he’s better.

Panarin came from nothing. He made it through sheer determination, not just from him but his grandparents too. I remember a tremendous article on the Athletic on him: https://theathletic.com/308056/2018/04/11/an-incredible-journey-artemi-panarins-path-from-poverty-to-nhl-stardom/?source=user_shared_article

 

A couple of great quotes:

 

Quote

“It was hard for him,” Georgi Belousov, a childhood friend of Panarin’s, wrote in an email to The Athletic. “There were kids who had everything handed to them, while Artemi had to borrow things or just have his grandfather ask for help around town. You can’t describe it. There are no words in Russian or English to describe how sad and humiliating it was for Artemi.

“But he was such a strong kid that he somehow always managed to deal with everything with the help of his grandparents. Others helped, too, but it was mostly him and his family. It was hard to look (at) sometimes.”

 

Quote

“To me, it’s one of the most tremendous drives to be the best you can be that I have ever seen,” Blue Jackets coach John Tortorella says, “and it’s coupled with him enjoying every minute of it. He loves playing. He just loves being on the ice. It’s infectious.

 

There was a free one that covers only some of his upbringing here from NYP: https://nypost.com/2020/01/06/the-wild-journey-that-led-artemi-panarin-to-rangers-stardom/amp/

 

So let’s not question this man’s drive, passion, love for the game, etc. One playoff showing is a blip on this guy’s career. It is not the definition of it. I still believe the best is yet to come.