article: Carp: Hayes to Jets, Heating Up?

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

so hayes is pretty much a goner. that's sad. I feel that with trading Hayes, the rangers wont go after Panarin and whomever else is out there and here come the dark ages for another 5 years.

but on the other hand, even with Hayes and Panarin, we would still need 2-3 years to build a solid defense. by then Hayes will be nearing the twilight.

 

I don't know. I so torn. I don't want to spend 5-6 years or more of my life waiting for something that may never come.

 

 

Fill me in. Who said he was a goner?? All this B.S. is pure speculation at this point.

[LONG LONG LONG TIME FAN]

Hayes

Zucc

 

Both need to be moved here in the next few weeks. Kreider perhaps near the draft or next years trade deadline.

 

 

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Why? Why? Why? and Why?

[Sod16]

If he gets traded he's almost certainly gone for good. Someone else will offer him a super premium deal. He will get appreciably more than what Gorton could sign him for right now. Players are very sad to cut the cord and go, but once they've been gone for a spell, they don't turn back.

[josh]

Just because we trade Hayes doesn't mean we won't pick-up negotiations with him again in the summer. Even if we want to keep him, we should still trade him. We know he loves being a Ranger more than any player we have and will be willing to keep talking.

 

Trade him to Winnipeg. He’ll more certainly take a discount to come back to NY! :rofl:

[Phil]

“Before we did the segment here - so about 10 minutes ago - I checked in on Kevin Hayes and the New York Rangers, just to see where that’s at,” indicated Dreger. “Because he’s a pretty important piece to the New York Rangers. That deal might come right down to the end. Have a conversation with Hayes. Find out what he wants to do. Does he want to push for a playoff run, and ultimately the Stanley Cup as a rental, and then perhaps sign back with the New York Rangers.

 

“Kevin Hayes, to me, should be a player that Minnesota or a team like Winnipeg should be looking at. I mean, just everything he brings, I think he’d fit nicely in that conference.”

 

https://www.nicholsonhockey.com/archives/2019/2/7/dregers-latest-on-kevin-hayes-trade-potential

[Future]

If he gets traded he's almost certainly gone for good. Someone else will offer him a super premium deal. He will get appreciably more than what Gorton could sign him for right now. Players are very sad to cut the cord and go, but once they've been gone for a spell, they don't turn back.

I think this is where Hayes will fall.

 

There are times where I think a player could come back, but I think that's more true for guys who are nearing the end of their career - like Nash was last year. It is exceedingly rare.

[Future]

I'm not in love with WPGs prospects if they aren't willing to move Roslovic or Vesalainen. What's the point of NYR adding more middle-6 forwards, especially ones that are already 23 (Petan, Appleton). Even Roslovic....he's 22 and barely more productive than Howden - 5 of his 7 goals came in the last 4 games.

 

Trading Hayes for poor man's versions of Hayes is totally pointless.

[NYR2711]

I was thinking Minny would be a good fit for him, especially with Koivu out for the rest of the season.

[Phil]

I'm not in love with WPGs prospects if they aren't willing to move Roslovic or Vesalainen. What's the point of NYR adding more middle-6 forwards, especially ones that are already 23 (Petan, Appleton). Even Roslovic....he's 22 and barely more productive than Howden - 5 of his 7 goals came in the last 4 games.

 

Trading Hayes for poor man's versions of Hayes is totally pointless.

 

I'd have a lot of interest in Niku.

[Future]

I'd have a lot of interest in Niku.

Meh, he's fine but doesn't really add much that's not already in the pipe, and he makes a lot more sense if you're trying to win next year...which would probably mean keeping Hayes.

 

I'd hate him as the focal point of a Hayes trade. At some point, this team needs forwards lol.

[Phil]

Meh, he's fine but doesn't really add much that's not already in the pipe, and he makes a lot more sense if you're trying to win next year...which would probably mean keeping Hayes.

 

I'd hate him as the focal point of a Hayes trade. At some point, this team needs forwards lol.

 

I'm the exact opposite on this. I think they need all the defensive help they can get. I'd nuke the entire blue line right now for a brand new start. As in not keep a single player they currently have under contract and probably be fine with moving forward with a clean slate. The only two players I see any real long-term value in are DeAngelo and Skjei, and I'm firmly on the fence with both. My loyalty with both is basically game-to-game.

[Future]

I'm the exact opposite on this. I think they need all the defensive help they can get. I'd nuke the entire blue line right now for a brand new start. As in not keep a single player they currently have under contract and probably be fine with moving forward with a clean slate. The only two players I see any real long-term value in are DeAngelo and Skjei, and I'm firmly on the fence with both. My loyalty with both is basically game-to-game.

I mean sure. But he's another middle-pair prospect and your third-best LHD prospect, assuming he's ahead of Sjalin and Rykov.

 

At some point, you need to stop just throwing shit against the wall and actually believe in the pieces you have, especially when the other two prospects are a first-round pick you traded up for and the centerpiece of the Mac deal. Not to mention that you're also behind a guy you just paid $5m a year for. You can't keep committing resources and then second guessing yourself by committing more to the same position. Trading Hayes for your 3rd-pair LD is a colossal failure.

 

What's the need for Niku when you have:

 

Skjei

Hajek

Miller

Rykov

Sjalin

 

And precisely 2 scoring winger prospects - one of whom was drafted as a C. At some point, Gorton has to have some faith in his scouts and, really, himself, that they've hit somewhere along the line.

[Phil]

I mean sure. But he's another middle-pair prospect and your third-best LHD prospect, assuming he's ahead of Sjalin and Rykov.

 

At some point, you need to stop just throwing shit against the wall and actually believe in the pieces you have, especially when the other two prospects are a first-round pick you traded up for and the centerpiece of the Mac deal. Not to mention that you're also behind a guy you just paid $5m a year for. You can't keep committing resources and then second guessing yourself by committing more to the same position. Trading Hayes for your 3rd-pair LD is a colossal failure.

 

What's the need for Niku when you have:

 

Skjei

Hajek

Miller

Rykov

Sjalin

 

And precisely 2 scoring winger prospects - one of whom was drafted as a C. At some point, Gorton has to have some faith in his scouts and, really, himself, that they've hit somewhere along the line.

 

This is an easy answer (for me).

 

Because Niku is an NHL player, and no one beneath Skjei comes with the same guarantee.

 

On paper, next season, Niku is undeniably their third LD. Possibly second-best depending on growth.

 

Skjei

Staal

Niku

 

 

Miller

Lindgren

Hajek

Rykov

Sjalin

[Future]

This is an easy answer (for me).

 

Because Niku is an NHL player, and no one beneath Skjei comes with the same guarantee.

 

On paper, next season, Niku is undeniably their third LD. Possibly second-best depending on growth.

 

Skjei

Staal

Niku

 

 

Miller

Lindgren

Hajek

Rykov

Sjalin

 

You don't need another NHL player next year, because you aren't trying to win next year. Niku's never even been an NHLer, how do you know it's a steep drop? He could be John Gilmour, for all we know.

[Gravesy]

You can add Nils Lundkvist to that pipeline as well.

[josh]

You don't need another NHL player next year, because you aren't trying to win next year. Niku's never even been an NHLer, how do you know it's a steep drop? He could be John Gilmour, for all we know.

 

Yeah, we are either worried about rebuilding, or worried about having an NHL player next year. Niku doesnt seem to fit either, based on the current players signed for next year, and those coming through the system. He doesn't fill any need.

[BrooksBurner]

I'd have a lot of interest in Niku.

 

I'd be very interested in Niku as well.

 

I'm on board with bringing in any quality young NHL/NHL-ready defensemen. But it should also mean doing anything that can be done to getting rid of the contracts that are currently on the books. Take on half or more of the cap hits - whatever it takes. Teams might actually be interested in Smith @ 1.5-2 million per season, or Shattenkirk at 2.5-3.5 million per season. Tired of these horrible veteran defensemen being put out on the ice. There is nothing to be gained from it.

[Future]

You can add Nils Lundkvist to that pipeline as well.

He's a righty, but yea.

[ThirtyONE]

You don't need another NHL player next year, because you aren't trying to win next year. Niku's never even been an NHLer, how do you know it's a steep drop? He could be John Gilmour, for all we know.

 

Well we do need to consider having NHL players at some point, don’t we? We can’t just suddenly flip 6 shitty Dmen for 6 nhlers. Even if next year isn’t a “go for it year.” Im at least hoping they’ll be done competing for last place.

[Future]

Well we do need to consider having NHL players at some point, don’t we? We can’t just suddenly flip 6 shitty Dmen for 6 nhlers. Even if next year isn’t a “go for it year.” Im at least hoping they’ll be done competing for last place.

What's the point in not competing for last place next year? Unless they are serious buyers this offseason (which would make trading Hayes stupid), they won't be any more ready to make a playoff run than this year.

 

The NHL players we need to consider are currently prospects in the system. Upgrading from Smith to Niku (or whoever) right now is meaningless.

[BrooksBurner]

What's the point in not competing for last place next year? Unless they are serious buyers this offseason (which would make trading Hayes stupid), they won't be any more ready to make a playoff run than this year.

 

The NHL players we need to consider are currently prospects in the system. Upgrading from Smith to Niku (or whoever) right now is meaningless.

 

Maybe, maybe not. There are more top end forwards (Panarin, Stone, Duchene as of now) available in free agency that can replace Hayes' spot in the top 6 if the Rangers wanted to be serious buyers, more than good defensemen (Karlsson? and probably not a good idea anyway).

 

I say this with a lot of hesitation regarding trading Hayes. I'd probably rather see them move others to relieve cap space and improve the defense, and then sign Hayes.

[Future]

Maybe, maybe not. There are more top end forwards (Panarin, Stone, Duchene as of now) available in free agency that can replace Hayes' spot in the top 6 if the Rangers wanted to be serious buyers, more than good defensemen (Karlsson? and probably not a good idea anyway).

 

I say this with a lot of hesitation regarding trading Hayes. I'd probably rather see them move others to relieve cap space and improve the defense, and then sign Hayes.

Well Panarin and Stone are wingers and don't replace Hayes. I guess you could make the argument that Duchene is an upgrade but he'll be 29 starting next year and almost certainly be more expensive than Hayes.

 

But you're talking about completely overhauling the offense and defense in one offseason. I guess they could do it, but to make any significant progress on the defensive side they'd have to move out a ton of assets. It's not nearly as viable, long term, as patience.

[BrooksBurner]

Well Panarin and Stone are wingers and don't replace Hayes. I guess you could make the argument that Duchene is an upgrade but he'll be 29 starting next year and almost certainly be more expensive than Hayes.

 

But you're talking about completely overhauling the offense and defense in one offseason. I guess they could do it, but to make any significant progress on the defensive side they'd have to move out a ton of assets. It's not nearly as viable, long term, as patience.

 

No, they wouldn't be direct replacements for Hayes. I would envision Chytil moving back to his natural position at center on the 2nd line. They would take Chytil's vacant winger spot.

 

I wouldn't consider a Hayes swap for a good young defenseman with upside, followed by a signing of Panarin, a complete overhaul...but it would be an improvement on both sides of the puck?

[Future]

No, they wouldn't be direct replacements for Hayes. I would envision Chytil moving back to his natural position at center on the 2nd line. They would take Chytil's vacant winger spot.

 

I wouldn't consider a Hayes swap for a good young defenseman with upside, followed by a signing of Panarin, a complete overhaul...but it would be an improvement on both sides of the puck?

That seems like a pretty lateral move. Not sure how you're better by doing that, and it's also really risky to assume that Chytil can be a top-6 C next year.

 

That's improbable to the point of being nearly impossible. Teams don't trade "good young defensemen with upside" who singlehandedly change the complexion of a defense, not to the extent that the Rangers don't already have in their pipe, and especially not for a rental.

[BrooksBurner]

That seems like a pretty lateral move. Not sure how you're better by doing that, and it's also really risky to assume that Chytil can be a top-6 C next year.

 

That's improbable to the point of being nearly impossible. Teams don't trade "good young defensemen with upside" who singlehandedly change the complexion of a defense, not to the extent that the Rangers don't already have in their pipe, and especially not for a rental.

 

I didn't say that. But it could be a defenseman who gets us started in the right direction and can become a part of the long term solution.

 

Hayes -> Panarin is not even close to a lateral move.