Dave

She wasn't brought up to fight. That's the point. They make a lot, early on, out of Sansa being a dutiful daughter that excels in her lessons and who will marry to improve the family lot. Arya is rebellious and could care less about stitching, proper manors or being married off for gain. I get if you like that in her character, but Arya's the exception when it comes to female children of high born families, not the rule. If you feel like Sansa's too old to behave this way in the show, that's a casting issue. She's 14, not 20, which is about how old her character looks there.

And of the two girls, Arya was a tomb boy. She was not the female standard. If you want a comparable for Sansa, it's Margaery. And if Renley chopped off her Grand Mother's head in front of her and went to war against Loras, while being absolutely evil all the time, her demeanor might be different as well.

I like the way they parallel her and Margaery. Just about the same age. Same position. Much different girls.

Oh, that's a different story all together. I think she's...OK, but doesn't look 14 at all.

14 year old girl that watched her father's head get chopped off by the king she was supposed to marry. Not to mention all the other torments she's gone through since. You guys are ruthless. I hope you all realize that a lot of what she says now is what she thinks other people want to hear or that she's supposed to say. She's trying to survive. Sure, she was relieved thinking maybe, after this nightmare she's been in, that she'd get to have her happy ending with Loras, but who wouldn't in her situation?

That's one of the most brilliant 4 word responses to an interview question.

That childhood fantasy, to me, is kind of a shell she's created given the reality she's had to deal with. If she can just endure the current reality, the fantasy may still become a reality.

Maybe I over reacted. Still feels wrong to me, but to each their own, right?

It's a little pervy to be dissecting the looks of a girl who, over the course of the show in question, has gone from 14-17 years old in real life.

She's 17 you pervs. :bravery:

You know nothing.

That scene between her and Tywin was gold.

This. In every scene he's been in, there's never any question as to who is the most powerful person around. The episode was decent. My wife feels a ton of compassion for Sansa.

I don't know that any of the characters' ages are that critical to the story lines that they couldn't fudge some stuff to cover this with the younger characters. If anything, it will just reduce some of the "ick" factor.

Obviously can't discuss it here in any detail, but because of the split with the books, this probably just fills in the gap.

Well, in the books we didn't know at first either, if memory serves.

Actually, it's the opposite. He was called very average looking in the book. Barely a spoiler but still:

Torts wishes his playoff beard was as long as the White Walker.

I get the issue that he's not cast yet, but even having him meet a shadowy figure or something like that, the back of the guy's head where you see Jon in front of him, or what ever, still has more journey's end kind of thing than just looking out over a cliff. Most of the other characters didn't have a full on conclusion, they just had an obvious turn in their story. Danny got her dragons back. Arya is free and heading home. The young Stark boys are heading for the wall. Tyrion is alive, back to his black sheep role and his whore still loves him. Robb gets married. Theon has lost Winterfell. Jeoffry is marrying what's her face, Sansa stuck around and my guess is will be whored out by Little Finger. Stannis was defeated but hasn't given up. Etc, etc. They've all gotten through their current season's adventure and moving on to their next one. Jon is looking out over a cliff. There's no transition there.

That's kind of how I felt, too. It was a great episode, had me going along, and definately left me wanting more, but I feel like a season finale has to deliver more as well. Most of the characters found resolution to their journeys across the season. I thought the balance could have been shifted properly by giving John Snow's arch more finality and then ending with the white walkers at the wall. Obviously, I don't know what awaits his meeting with the king of the wildlings, but I think we should have seen that to complete his arch for this season.

If I was an imp and had to choose a champion, that guy'd be it.

I was like, oh shit it's Renly's boyfriend! Made sense, but I never saw it coming. Then I realized it was him and Tywin. That also kind of makes sense, as they have a mutual enemy in Stannis.

My girlfriend and I argue about this constantly with movies. Sitting in the movie theater, every time there is some disconnect, I can feel her turning to whisper to me about it and every walk out of the theaters' postscript begins with what was different. Drives me loopy. I only like exploring the differences as they relate to story telling in the different mediums. Why they made the choices they did or how they might have resolved the differences in a better way.

Not sure whether that jives with the book or not, but a couple of things. First, it parallels really well against Joffrey hiding behind his mother's skirt. Second, Stannis is a believer and believers don't always do what's rational.