Gravesy

1.  Mika Zibanejad

2. Artemi Panarin

3. Adam Fox 

4. Vincent Trocheck

5. Chris Kreider

6. Filip Chytil

7. Kappo Kakko

8. Vladimir Tarasenko +1

9. Igor Shesterkin

10. Alexis Lafrenière

11. K'Andre Miller

12. Ryan Lindgren 

13. Jacob Trouba 

14. Jaroslav Halak

15. Braden Schneider

16. Patrick Kane +1

17. Jimmy Vesey

18. Niko Mikkola 

19. Barclay Goodrow

20. Ben Harpur 

21. Tyler Motte

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

If I had told you in September that eventually this season, on the night before Patrick Kane would make his Rangers debut, that Vladimir Tarasenko would wire home a snipe job to win a game for us in OT, what would you say?

“I’ll have some of whatever it is this guy’s having”

You ride out Shesty's contract, and you take your chances after that. The examples where paying a goalie at the top of the market works out are few and far between.

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I’m realizing your username, so I can kind of understand that this may be a soft spot. But outside of a Cup win, which may still or may not be a part of Kreiders future here, he’s on pace to blow by Graves in terms of production as a Ranger. Graves played 772 games as a Ranger, with 280 goals and 220 assists for 507 points. Kreider is already at 251 goals and 209 assists for 460 points in 705 games. And he’s only climbing. Assuming he doesn’t get dealt this summer, have to assume he will blow by Graves NYR totals in both categories by next season.

 

I always was a Graves fan. But while I think it’s fair to say we’ve never thought of Kreider in the same way we would think of a Brian Leetch or a Henrik Lundqvist (a HOF’er and 1 soon-to-be HOF’er), I think it might be a little unfair to say we’ve never thought of him in the same mold as a Graves. Both had good numbers here. Kreiders will likely be better, and probably over a longer stretch. Both had one big booming 50+ goal campaign. Hypothetically, if the Rangers ever did happen to win a Cup this year, their career totals as Rangers would almost be a damn near mirror of one another.

 

So to say it’s a little hard to not think of him in the same breath as an Adam Graves is a little bit of a reach for me.

Yeah, that's probably fair. 

My feeling on Graves is massively influenced by the 94 run, probably more than I realize. I think it's colored by personality types too. Some guys are these larger than life individuals, some - like Kreider - aren't. When I think of Graves I think of him sacrificing his well being to score a goal, cost what it may, blood all over his jersey etc. I think of him skating around in warm ups for game 7, looking up at the Garden faithful to the deafening noise of "We want the cup" - totally unfazed. Maybe my favorite moment in sports ever. I don't have those moments with Kreider. 

I think you're right in that, if you isolate just the two as players, they're not miles apart.

12 hours ago, Phil said:

12 hours ago, siddious said:

I hope he gets 1. That would be fun to watch.

 

I’ll throw this out there… as of right now… gets his ranger # retired? 

 

Probably. Especially if he breaks or comes close to breaking some of these team records.

I saw this tweet and I started thinking about where Kreider belongs in context of Rangers legends. Weirdly, I have never really thought about him that way. Certainly, the idea of Kreiders jersey being in the rafters has never even crossed my mind. But given his production and longevity it's certainly up for debate.

I think it might be because he's never been a dominant force, never truly elite and for long stretches of his career has sort of felt like unfulfilled potential given his physical gifts. Fairly or not. 

For those interested in the NFL, it reminds me a lot of the "is Frank Gore a HOF'er" discussion. Apart from a couple of peaks he was never the best guy around, just a really good player who was in the league and productive for much longer than your normal running back. And as a result, has incredible counting stats. 

I feel the same way about Kreider. Good player, great guy, excellent soldier, will be firmly cemented as one of highest scorers in org history. But I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of Chris Kreider, bonafide Rangers legend with his jersey retired. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I just don't think of him in the same vein as your Leetch, Graves, Hank etc. 

43 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said:

Sloppy ass game. Almost as if they said… this team doesn’t defend.. we might as well just play offense tonight.

 

They got the win. All that matters.

 

Just don’t do that Friday vs Edmonton… or McJesus might break 6 records

Yeah, it was incredibly sloppy but I'm not too worried about it. 

The Rangers played down to their opposition a bit, and Shesterkin had an off night. A win is a win, particularly on the road on the other side of the continent. 

Just don't make it a habit.

Try living in Scandinavia with a normal EC puck drop at 02am you complete prima donnas 

I'd be happy to be wrong on this, but I can't see how Kravtsov brings back a 1st. 

If you're a buyer at the deadline and presumably contending, he doesn't make your top 6. If you need depth at winger there's a myriad of guys out there with experience and proven track record who will be much more suitable additions at a fraction of the price.

If you're not contending you're almost certainly not giving up a lottery 1st for the privilege of learning whether Kravtsov can hack it in the NHL. Not with this draft coming up. 

That's even before considering that Kravtosv and the Rangers are 100% at the end of the line of their relationship, and the Rangers have to cut their losses at this point.

Any GM who gives up a 1st for him at the deadline needs their head read imo.  

3 hours ago, Pete said:

The coach is the biggest blocker. Not the roster. 

5 hours ago, CSNY1 said:

Great trade and settles lines down so Gallant can’t really screw around with them too much  Just hope that he doesn’t cut the kids minutes with this acquisition

My first thought was: fucking great trade.

My second thought was: Jerry Gallant is going to find a way to fuck this up. My money is on breaking up the kid line to put Vesey there. 

10 minutes ago, jamsim1967 said:

There needs to be a new rule, instigation in retaliation for a legal hit is a double minor.  This ritual is getting ridiculous in this league.

Yeah. It's an absolute joke. Any type of open ice hit is a klaxon for someone to get their handbag out. 

By all means stand up for your team mate after a dirty hit, but come on.

Not necessarily size, I guess, but guys who are your mid six players with more complete 200ft games. I'm not sure a lack of skill was the issue v Tampa, it was more a case of not being able to hang for 60 minutes every night, in all phases of play.

I definitely agree that Kane being a proven winner is tantalizing and certainly never a bad thing. 

I'm just not 100% convinced he's the right profile at this time. But I'm absolutely not sure of that. The upside is obviously incredible.

2 hours ago, Sod16 said:

Uncle Larry, once in favor of getting Kane, now opposed.  Interesting.

 

https://nypost.com/2023/01/31/patrick-kane-may-no-longer-be-trade-deadline-fit-for-rangers/

I don't disagree entirely. 

Trading for Kane feels like a move the Rangers have done a million times since the 70's, and I'm not entirely convinced it solves an actual problem. They do need a RW, but I'm not sure another light weight, technical player - albeit very talented, obviously - is what they actually need. I don't think he's necessarily wrong in that adding Kane may not be what gets the Rangers over the line when games become tight, physical and you're into war of attrition territory. 

On the other hand, goal scoring in general is low key becoming a bit of a problem. The question is, does adding Kane significantly improve 5v5 scoring, or is that better addressed by adding a couple of depth guys who can play as well as mix it up? I'm not sure.

The plan?

The plan is to win hockey games. These boys are hockey players, they'll know what to do. Because they're vets. And if they don't, I'll sit their ass for Jimmy Fucking Vesey. Not the vets, obviously, the fucking kids. Because a message needs to be sent. Sometimes you need to do that. Send messages. Whose meaning and intent is unclear. It's called coaching.

I don't know what you even mean by this "system" you speak of lol. We're a hockey team, not aerospace technicians. Let's not make it too complicated. See puck, get puck, score puck. That enough of a system for ya? These guys have played hockey all their lives, they'll figure it out. OK cya, I'm off for a beer I guess.

On 1/22/2023 at 8:04 PM, Cash or Czech said:

 

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't think it's fantasy at all and it's got nothing to do with putting in work and everything to do with demeanor. 

 

There's a very clear difference between the footage and story of Kakko after a massive fuck up, vs Lafreniere. Not saying looking like you're going to eat a cyanide pill like Kakko is the "right" way, but there's a clear difference. 

 

There's no stories of anyone going over to Laffy after he takes out his own man in OT because he's beating himself up about it.

 

And there's plenty of footage (shot candidly) all over Rangers social of Lafreniere looking like he doesn't have a care in the world. 

 

I don't mind anyone being loose, but my God act at some point like you give a shit. 

 

Also very telling they've been sheltering him from the media.

If the point is we don't like his demeanor that's fine.

The narrative is about much more than how he looks after a fuck up though. It's him being lazy, not putting in the work and not taking it seriously.

And I don't buy that narrative.

I think the idea that he doesn't take things seriously and isn't putting in the work is complete fantasy tbh.

You can accuse the Rangers of many things, babying their high draft picks is not one of them. If he was goofing around and coasting through practices you'd have known about it for a long time now. That shit wouldn't have flown with David Quinn, and certainly won't fly with Gerry Gallant or his teammates either. If that was the case he'd be scratched on numerous occasions. It would also have been reported on extensively by now. I just don't buy it. 

FWIW, now down to 27th on Pronmans top players under 23 list. 

Quote

27. Alexis Lafrenière, RW, New York Rangers

Oct. 11, 2001 | 6-foot-1 | 195 pounds | Shoots left

Drafted: No. 1 in 2020

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: Above NHL average
Compete: NHL average

Aug. 2022 Ranking: 10

Analysis: I struggle with where to rate Lafrenière. I can see the argument he’s too high or that he will eventually break out. There’s a lot of “what-ifs” you can do with him. You can “what-if” how he would have performed in the AHL, or on a different team without a stacked PP1. But in the current reality, he’s been a good, but not great NHL winger. He shows flashes of his high-end skill and playmaking, but not consistently enough given his lack of pace. He’s still only 21 and given everything I know about the player. between the talent and his context, I think a breakout will come eventually, but I certainly can’t sit here and say I feel overly confident about it.

For reference, Miller is the best Ranger at #21.

Kakko is #32.

The Schneids #51.

31 minutes ago, Pete said:

You didn't bold all the times the writer said "elite", when he isn't elite at anything. 

It wasn't necessary, because the point isn't whether the scouting report is accurate.

It's to fucking nit pick whether he was stamped a generational talent or not coming out.

As the article shows, sane individuals did not call him generational. 

12 hours ago, The Dude said:

And?

 

Were the "serious" analysts right?  Serious and non serious draft analysts missed. Big time. He's a good 3rd liner though.  Right? Right.  Well not this year. Last year he was. Kinda. Not really. 

 

Please share the "serious " scouting reports. 

And what?

You said he was meant to be a generational talent. 

I said that's not what several reports from several of what I would consider serious sources said. For example:

Quote

Projection

Lafreniere has looked the part of an elite prospect for years. He’s dominated the QMJHL for three straight seasons. He’s been one of the better Canadians in junior international play in recent memory.

He has elite skill and elite vision. He can make incredible plays, and if given space he can beat goalies from a distance. He competes his tail off, he’s physical and he can play off the puck. His skating isn’t high-end, but it’s good.

The nitpicks of him could be his pace. The fact he’s a winger and not a center, something he said he hasn’t done much of his life and is much more comfortable being a winger. I’m not so sure positions are that important, and it feels like hockey is developing, at least for skaters, into more of a position-less sport the more time goes on.

He’s not a perfect prospect. He didn’t crush the CHL the way a guy like Crosby, John Tavares or Connor McDavid did, and given Lafreniere's lack of elite speed, I wouldn’t feel comfortable discussing him as that tier of a prospect.

He is a projected impact player though given all his amazing attributes. He is even as a winger someone who can project to become a foundational part of a team’s rebuild, a true star and a potential leading scorer in the NHL.

 

https://theathletic.com/1713841/2020/10/06/pronmans-scouting-report-why-alexis-lafreniere-is-a-top-nhl-prospect/

Ergo, very good. Not generational. 

The fact he hasn't been anywhere near "very good" isn't up for discussion. 

47 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I stopped reading after they said he wasn't supposed to be a generational talent.  Because.  He was. 

According to who?

Most “serious” draft analysts had him a clear tier below McDavid/Matthews etc.

1 hour ago, Pete said:

In the salary cap era, 9 franchises have won cups. There are 32 in the NHL, so this comment is really much ado about nothing

I mean, sure. It was tongue in cheek. Tried to be funny. But there are kernels of truth there too, in that the lack of patience and unwillingness to build from the ground up on Broadway probably isn’t conducive to building long lasting contending teams. 
 

1 hour ago, Pete said:

"Lafreniere is fine" vs "Lafreniere should be traded"...Well, this isn't politics and it's not "you're either on my side or you hate him and want him gone". I see a lot of that here. I find the "you just hate him" posts the most comical though.

 

"It's the team's fault" vs "It's the player"...Still, a ton of grey area here. It's not that simple. Could the Rangers have done more to support? Maybe. But that's not within Lafreniere's control. All he can control is his own play and battle level, and it has not been nearly good enough. Laffy stans need to acknowledge that or we can never have an honest debate.

Agreed.

6 hours ago, Keirik said:

Might save us from doing something stupid. Or make us doing something more stupid to have a full year of him next season lol

That was my immediate thought.

5 hours ago, The Dude said:

This franchise has traded much better young players in the past in the chase for a championship.

Ah, yes. The vaunted New York Rangers "one cup every half century" strategy. The envy of the entire league.

Look, this time last year one of the most active threads on this forum was called "Kaapo Kakko stinks". And he did. Now he doesn't. Lafreniere has already shown he can play in spurts, and can be a contributor in the playoffs. Now he's not doing so hot, but cutting bait with him would be ill advised and typical of an organization with a century + of experience in how not to build championship winning teams.

19 minutes ago, Pete said:

Sorry but no coach is letting a line that's not working sit together for years. 

 

That's not to absolve GG from his panicked tinkering, but Kreider is out over his skis there. 

Of course not.

In general though, allowing lines to build up some chemistry feels sensible.

A start would be not to jumble the lines at the first hint of trouble. In particular when the team is on a roll, the lines in general are working and make sense for the first time this season.

But then again, we know the only tool in GG’s bag is pressing “scramble” in his line generator app.