Gravesy

Can the human mind imagine a goal more descriptive of the current state of affairs than the 3rd Devils goal? 

The game is in the balance.

The PP has already had a couple of opportunities without paying off, at which point the PP is 0-13 or something like that. 

We get back on the PP, and it starts with over passing the shit out of the puck. Two guys, I think Fox and Kane, pass up the most obvious shooting opportunities of all time, opting to instead try a fancy, cross ice pass - both too loose to cause any problems.

The puck ends up with Panarin, who dilly dallys on the blue line like a fucking moron, loses the puck and of course the Devils go straight down the ice and clinically dispatches the shorty to effectively end the Rangers chances.

I literally did this:

Quote

It goes in streaks and hopefully it'll get real hot

15 hours ago, Pete said:

And it makes the kids look twice as bad because while other team's picks are their leading scorers, ours can't even provide secondary scoring.

But we've known for a very long time that our picks are nothing to write home about, and that they aren't anywhere near what their draft pedigree told us they were. The other teams picks are their leading scorers because they are legit top 6 players. It seems pretty ridiculous to keep expecting these kids to be something that they are evidently not. 

So whilst it would be helpful if our 3rd and 4th line could chip in with secondary scoring, the real problem over the last two games is that our top guys got 10 tries at the PP and scored 0, and can barely produce anything at all 5v5. 

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I don't think anyone has made that comparison.  It's just the overall disappointment in how useless Lafrenière actually is. Kakko atleast has some battle level.  He's not pushed around and he's generating opportunities.  Lafrenière does pretty much nothing right now. Its a matter of competency.  It not a matter of comparison.  The Rangers should be able to lean on Lafrenière  and the kid line. They should once again be getting the favorable match ups. But they really aren't making any difference.  They aren’t really even cycling the puck and wearing down defenders. They aren’t making the Devils work. 

 

IMO most of that stems from Lafrenières weak play and inability or non interest in carrying the puck. .. When he does... They look better.  Fucking kid had a great chance in OT when he took it to the net.

 

I'm tired of his enter the zone and instantly curl back along the boards crap. It almost every possession where he brings the puck in. Chytil will at least bring it in with speed and try to get it deep,  then decide what he's going to do. Oddly Kakko rarely carries the puck in, despite being the strongest guy on the puck.. 

 

To wrap it up, Lafrenière is lost right now. It's not a comparison to Hughes. It's a matter of why isnt there more depth so they can slide him down or out. I mean,  does anybody want to see Vesey get more ice? I'd  be ok with Goodrow sliding up, but like I said.  There goes your 4 C. 

 

Lafrenière not being very good obviously isn't the biggest issue here. But it's an issue and it should be addressed. 

I mean, sure. It wasn’t a defense of Laf.

My point was, watching the game I knew I’d come in here and see tons of posts about how great Hughes is and how shit our high picks are. And whilst that is undoubtedly true, it doesn’t even merit mention in the game thread because a) it’s old news and b) the real problem isn’t that our disappointing kids on the third line look meh, it’s that our actual good players were completely outclassed by theirs. 

Focusing on Laf/Kakko and bemoaning the fact they’re nowhere near as good as Hughes seem wide of the mark after the last two games. We’ve known they’re not in his stratosphere for a long time, and we were never riding them to the Stanley Cup anyway.

What you should be worried about is Jack Hughes dominating and completely outshining everybody in our top 6. 

21 minutes ago, Pete said:

but they can't score more than one goal off of a 23-year-old rookie goalie playing his first playoffs

And it's not like he's prime Dom Haseking them either. Not to take anything away from him, he's been very solid, but they've made it incredibly easy. All perimeter stuff, no traffic, no crashing the net, literally nothing bar the Trochek goal from high danger areas. 

The bottom line is when your highly paid stars go 0/10 on the pp and do the square root of fuck all in two straight home games you're going to be in trouble. 

21 hours ago, Gravesy said:

This guy is getting lit up tonight. Pulled before we reach the halfway point tbph.

42 minutes ago, Ranger Lothbrok said:

Great, Shmid. Now we get shutout on home ice and this no-name Patrick Roy's this series into 7 games. 

 

Can we PLEASE for once make a backup nobody look like a backup nobody?

This guy is getting lit up tonight. Pulled before we reach the halfway point tbph.

25 minutes ago, 4EverRangerFrank said:

I fucked up! Weeks ago I invited neighbors to dinner at our house. Guess what? It’s tonight. Gonna’ make several ‘excuse me’ trips to the bathroom to check here for updates. LOL

 

I know you guys got this - LGR!

Are they not people of culture and class, i.e. Rangers fans?

20 hours ago, Ranger Lothbrok said:

Isn't that what happened in 1994 too? Won the first two, mailed it in for 3, the Guarantee, and then Matteau.

Nope. Lost game 1. Then won 2 straight and had a chance to take it back to the Garden 3-1. Instead they didn't show up and lost the next 2, facing elimination in g6 which was the guarantee. 

I don't want to get cute here, but I don't see it happening. A split at the Garden at the worst.

13 hours ago, mbob said:

Icelanders with the fastest 4 goals in playoff history beating the canes. They ticked off the last 3 seconds due fights in this one too. Hope the Canes take the next hate the Isles. 

You have to pinch your nose and hope the Fish Sticks take it to 7.

A deeply impressive road playoff win against a team that had to have it. 

The way the Rangers have played in these 2 games has got my belief level pretty damn high. Bar that little flurry to start the 3rd we've given them absolutely nothing. It sort of reminds me of the play in V the Canes, where the Rangers were a fast, offensively talented team that was unable to get anything at all going against a smarter, heavier opponent.

Also, Pat Fucking Kane. Where did that come from? 

9 hours ago, BrooksBurner said:

Devils are about to get taught a lesson in big boy hockey.

His “effort” tracking back on the ot goal last night was utterly pitiful to be fair 

2 hours ago, RangersIn7 said:

Yes.

He did.

 

I would be interested to know more of the specifics there though.

I believe that there were others in that organization who were senior to him that knew about it and did nothing either.

And who vetted the guy?

He had incidents at previous jobs as well.

 

Whole organization messed it up.

Quenneville just took the most public end of the fall.

 

I don’t know that he necessarily deserves another shot either. But while what he did was wrong, he’s not the actual perpetrator.

Fuck that.

He knew what that guy did to the poor kid, and kept quiet about it. 
An absolute gormless prick, I’m not letting him anywhere near my team. 

.

Laffy took that guy’s lunch money 

imo

2 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I have no issue whatsoever with how the Rangers develop. They made stupid promises they couldn't keep with guys like Kravtsov, but the actual process of bringing guys along is just fine. No better or worse than any other team, no matter what Twitter would have you believe. If the Rangers were guilty of "ruining" players, it wouldn't happen so selectively, but much more often. The success of Schneider, Miller, Chytil, etc is literal evidence that "The Rangers don't know how to develop players/first round picks" is absolute nonsense.

I don't think their success with homegrown players compares particularly favorably with any of the successful organizations in the past couple of decades. But that's not really the point here. The point is that the two guys were drafted by a good team, who are trying to win now, who aren't really in the business of sacrificing short term success for the development of young players and where they subsequently were never going to be handed anything. As opposed to most other top 2 picks who typically get long leashes on the 1st line and PP1, which has a tendency to fast track development.

That being said, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that regardless of who drafted them, these two guys were never the franchise altering pieces they were sold as. They probably have absolute ceilings of good to very good 2nd line wingers.

14 hours ago, Phil said:

I hate to be that guy, but they're not "slam dunk picks." They were "consensus picks."

 

I do agree that the revisionist history stuff is of no practical use, but Kakko is worlds away from what was expected of him. This is fine insofar as it keeps his price tag low, but there's a very real ceiling on what you should want to pay a player like this if this keeps up. I'm not wasting my time investing multi-millions in a reliable two-way third-line winger just because he's "young." Youth isn't a skill, it's a feature who's value is relative to contractual status. Once we reach arbitration and/or unrestricted free agency with this player, I'd walk.

I'm not sure your definition of slam dunk vs consensus is the dictionary version of not, but I would've thought my point was pretty clear. 

There's no point going down the road of "The Rangers should've taken player X instead of Kakko" or "player Y instead of Lafreniere" with the benefit of hindsight. Because, when the Rangers were on the clock, taking anyone other than the players they took would've been insanity and would've gone done as something like top 10 reaches of all time. The fact neither of them has panned out so far is a combination of bad luck, situation and the Rangers as a developmental organization. And possibly also the hockey community as a whole under rating the importance of skating and foot speed for prospects in the modern game.

But like I said, literally every GM past and present would've taken those two when it was time to turn the card in.

Whether or how you pay them is a separate discussion, and one where I think we're aligned.

If the Rangers hadn't taken Kakko and Lafreniere with those two picks there would've been legitimate calls for everyone involved to be institutionalized. Slam dunk picks, the fact they have yet to break out properly is down to a load of factors that have been covered ad nauseum. 

Revisiting those two decisions is completely pointless.

10 hours ago, The Dude said:

Again.  I didn't initially say he would "blow the doors off Lafrenière and Kakko" production wise. I meant by being an all around useful player. I later said he could probably beat their rookie productions which are piss poor 23 and 21 points. Yes, I think he can absolutely hover around or above those numbers while also being a pest, a PKer and maybe even used sparingly on a PP. 

 

The production isn't what I'm talking about. His game. His style of play. His attitude. If he doesn’t score in the NHL at elite Jr level... I DON'T CARE, because that's not the part of his game I'm excited about or am thinking pushes him into the NHL. 

 

I've said over and over that he doesn’t have to come in and be their future 1st liner. He can come in and still work as a net positive as a bottom 6 player. He can contribute in other ways besides the score sheet.  Unlike Lafrenière, whom seems to be lack luster as a 3rd line. Which makes sense.  Because he shouldn't be a 3rd liner. He doesn't fit there and he's not playing up to what we all expected because of it. 

 

Lafrenière needs top 6 minutes with good players and some PP time to be what is expected of him. While Othmann can build his game on the bottom 6 and not be depended on for goals. 

Ok, I must have skimmed a bit too hard.

Don’t really disagree with any of this.

4 hours ago, Pete said:

It's hard to see how you can make this argument in a discussion about Lafreniere. While dominating juniors, he's largely stunk as an NHLer. Not that he hasn't succeeded, not that he hasn't been given a chance, yes that he's mostly stunk in whatever role he's had. As a #1OA that's just embarrassing.

 

I also don't think on ice traits are the reason Oathmann is not as dominant this year. There's some other stuff going on with him which is the reason he forced a trade.

 

If you follow Marchand's career arc, he had a shitty end to his Jr career, too. If Othmann turned into half the player Marchand is, I'd be happy.

 

If Othmann not blowing the doors off Lafreniere then he's probably a 30 point player. And that would be sad.

Lafreniere is a complete outlier in that he had historical production in juniors yet it hasn't really translated at all.

In any case, this isn't about Lafreniere as much as it is about Othmann. Expecting him to "blow the doors off" Laffy's production means, what, 50+ points in his first year? That just seems like a lot to ask from a guy who isn't dominating juniors the way you typically have to in order to get anywhere near that sort of production in the pros.

12 hours ago, The Dude said:

Is Lafrenières Jr career really a good base for any type of argument?  I'd say no, considering we classify him as a "decent 3rd liner" after that illustrious Jr career. 

10 hours ago, Pete said:

I didn't watch him in junior, All I've seen are the highlight compilations, but all I will say is it's a collection of plays that any other player could do, there's just a lot of them.

 

That should explain his total vanilla game and lack of dynamic play and skill. He's not doing anything that anyone else can't do, he's just doing it more often.. and doing it more often than Junior doesn't mean you're doing it more often in the NHL. 

I mean, Othmann may have more translatable and dynamic traits.

But production in junior is highly indicative of NHL performance, and Othmann isn't able to use his traits to dominate a vastly inferior league. So the idea he's going to come in and "blow the doors" off Lafreniere who outproduced him by a factor of 2 as a younger player just seems very unlikely.

Not impossible, certainly, but you're hoping for a lot here.

Othmann is scoring at half the clip of Lafreniere as an over ager in juniors. 
The idea that he’s going to come in and be better than Laf is total wish casting imo