Fatfrancesa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I don't necessarily agree with this. I get the idea of building a strong nucleus but you have to have some guys that've been around before as part of the team. Yeah, maybe Panarin isn't really what this team needs next season, but the following seasons, when the youth movement starts maturing, he is an asset that can help push the team to the next step. I also think that with Buchnevich, Krasvtov, and Shestyorkin (and possibly Podkolzin) it's not the worst thing in the world to have a successful, veteran, Russian as part of the mix. Definitely agree with this. I thought he was damaged goods back when the Sens moved him. I also think that's why the return was somewhat less than what was expected. Karlsson before the injury I'm all in on. This version of him however, I pass on. Rangers have plenty of vets who have been around and they can add plenty that don’t take 11m at 7 years. For some reason ufas signings is like going shopping with my kids. People act like they will be the last good players available. Next year there will be others and so forth forever. It’s just my opinion but they should build the foundation and spend big when they are ready and what’s needed becomes available. There are multiple problems with this situation. The rangers aren’t close to ready to contend. Ek has huge risk and doesn’t fit what they need. Panarin is a wing who has shown no ability to be the guy anywhere he’s been. The only reason to sign them is for a broadway buzz. To cause some excitement within the fan base and to justify ridiculous seat pricing. Sure justified reasons. They are the same reasons the rangers have used forever. It’s also never worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Completely disagree. I'd take Panarin/Karlsson over Hall/Pietrangelo all day long and twice on Sunday. Agree to disagree. No point going on about it. Hall is superior to panarin in my opinion and pieterangelo is a better fit with two good legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 This year also has Duchene, Pavelski, lee, and others. Next year Pieterangelo Hall Backstrom Both hall and pieterangelo would be better signings then panarin or ek. Not to mention the rangers would be further into the rebuilding process and would get more prime years out of them while hopefully being relevant. I don't think this list helps your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 That’s fine. I don’t really think panarain or ek at this point with his injuries move the needle very much either. I don’t want any of them at the moment. 2020 maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 And if I had to choose I’d take Duchene over any of them and I really don’t like him either. He’s basically been a poison pill to success everywhere yet his teammates all seem to speak highly of him. My point is that none of them will make that big a difference other than saddling the team with a massive contract that restricts their opportunities to take advantage in the future. What is the upside here? They may make a run at an 8 seed? Panarin can come here and score 40 and they still will suck for the foreseeable future. Same with ek coming and playing like he did three years ago. Downside is that ek already showing his wear and tear and panarin is older than most when hitting ufa. Both have realistic risks of being albatross contracts three to four years from now. Probably more likely than not. So right about the time this team may finally be turning the corner these contracts fuck it all up. That possibility at the benefit of what? 8-10 place? No thanks. Brad Richards was another elite guy that made it to ufa. The entire league waited in line to meet with him. Two three years later he’s passing through waivers and the rangers are buying him out. Only difference now is that there is no amnesty buyouts now, and at least with Richards there was an actual upside. They were trying to win. Signing these two is not trying to win it’s trying to sell tickets and false hope. And it will do the exact opposite of the title of this thread. It’s a hard cap league. You can’t tear it all down, have to rebuild your entire farm system and buy your way into contention in a year of two. It won’t work. There is no guarantee they will draft right but it’s the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 That’s fine. I don’t really think panarain or ek at this point with his injuries move the needle very much either. I don’t want any of them at the moment. 2020 maybe. So... next season?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Summer 2020. Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 And if I had to choose I’d take Duchene over any of them and I really don’t like him either. He’s basically been a poison pill to success everywhere yet his teammates all seem to speak highly of him. My point is that none of them will make that big a difference other than saddling the team with a massive contract that restricts their opportunities to take advantage in the future. What is the upside here? They may make a run at an 8 seed? Panarin can come here and score 40 and they still will suck for the foreseeable future. Same with ek coming and playing like he did three years ago. Downside is that ek already showing his wear and tear and panarin is older than most when hitting ufa. Both have realistic risks of being albatross contracts three to four years from now. Probably more likely than not. So right about the time this team may finally be turning the corner these contracts fuck it all up. That possibility at the benefit of what? 8-10 place? No thanks. Brad Richards was another elite guy that made it to ufa. The entire league waited in line to meet with him. Two three years later he’s passing through waivers and the rangers are buying him out. Only difference now is that there is no amnesty buyouts now, and at least with Richards there was an actual upside. They were trying to win. Signing these two is not trying to win it’s trying to sell tickets and false hope. And it will do the exact opposite of the title of this thread. It’s a hard cap league. You can’t tear it all down, have to rebuild your entire farm system and buy your way into contention in a year of two. It won’t work. There is no guarantee they will draft right but it’s the only way. I am interested to hear your rationale for preferring Duchene over Panarin. Up until this season he had never been a PPG or close to it. His production was more on a Stepan level. Panarin's been basically a 30 g PPG player his whole career. Just doesn't seem close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Duchene is a great add for next years draft. #lafreniere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I am interested to hear your rationale for preferring Duchene over Panarin. Up until this season he had never been a PPG or close to it. His production was more on a Stepan level. Panarin's been basically a 30 g PPG player his whole career. Just doesn't seem close. My rational is that I don’t want either. My only point is that Duchene can be had for far less money and probably less term. He is a two way center man not a winger. The rational is that you may get value for Duchene at 6 or 7m compared to panarain at 11. Duchene will signing on a low while panarain is at a high. Either way I dont want either player at all. Signing either will piss me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Duchene is a great add for next years draft. #lafreniere #suck(forthreeyears)forsavoie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 My rational is that I don?t want either. My only point is that Duchene can be had for far less money and probably less term. He is a two way center man not a winger. The rational is that you may get value for Duchene at 6 or 7m compared to panarain at 11. Duchene will signing on a low while panarain is at a high. Either way I dont want either player at all. Signing either will piss me off. I'm not sure what year you are living in, but it's not 2019. Duchene ? who put up a career 1.16 P/GP in Ottawa, and a career 1.03 P/GP on the year ? was offered $64 million (8x8) before he was traded by the Senators. He's getting at least that on the open market, which now that it's seven years max, is roughly a $9.15 million AAV. I say at least because he's now the best (most productive) center on the market. All he needs is a second team with serious interest and a good agent to push to just south of $10 million in AAV. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Panarin just fought Mcavoy after taking a hard hit earlier in the game Dudes were trading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Link: -- Now I want him even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Panarin: "Oh, Quinn likes players with an edge and grit? OK. Time to throw down the gloves and show some fire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Not sure Quinn will like someone trying to hit his former defensive recruit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I'm not sure what year you are living in, but it's not 2019. Duchene — who put up a career 1.16 P/GP in Ottawa, and a career 1.03 P/GP on the year — was offered $64 million (8x8) before he was traded by the Senators. He's getting at least that on the open market, which now that it's seven years max, is roughly a $9.15 million AAV. I say at least because he's now the best (most productive) center on the market. All he needs is a second team with serious interest and a good agent to push to just south of $10 million in AAV. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Get it you disagree so much so that an insult is needed Great I don’t want either. I don’t want Duchene at all. Got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 #suck(forthreeyears)forsavoie Straw man argument. I don’t want to suck for years no more than I want to lose any of the remaining games. It is possible to improve and build towards a goal without handing out 7 year deals for $11m a year. It is possible. I’m not against signing players or making trades that help the team now. Entering into massive agreements with players who will be over 30 by the time this team is ready to contend I don’t want any part of. It shouldn’t be that crazy of an opinion to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Straw man argument. I don’t want to suck for years no more than I want to lose any of the remaining games. It is possible to improve and build towards a goal without handing out 7 year deals for $11m a year. It is possible. I’m not against signing players or making trades that help the team now. Entering into massive agreements with players who will be over 30 by the time this team is ready to contend I don’t want any part of. It shouldn’t be that crazy of an opinion to understand. It's not. It's a valid route. It means trading Kreider though, and possibly Zibanejad. On board with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Not necessarily on either. What does kreider want contract wise? What does the situation look like come deadline next year. Zibanejad is under contract at a steal so not sure where he comes into question. To me Zibanejad is a core piece going forward. That can change over time but he seems like a great place to start building. To be honest I’m not sure on kreider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Get it you disagree so much so that an insult is needed Great I don’t want either. I don’t want Duchene at all. Got it? I wasn't trying to insult you. I was, I guess wrongly, trying to point out that the market value of players in 2019 is vastly higher than the $6-7 million you had pegged for Duchene. Those are 2007-ish numbers. When the cap was like $30 million less than it is now. But we agree on not wanting Duchene at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Straw man argument. I don’t want to suck for years no more than I want to lose any of the remaining games. It is possible to improve and build towards a goal without handing out 7 year deals for $11m a year. It is possible. I’m not against signing players or making trades that help the team now. Entering into massive agreements with players who will be over 30 by the time this team is ready to contend I don’t want any part of. It shouldn’t be that crazy of an opinion to understand. I... Wasn't addressing you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Not necessarily on either. What does kreider want contract wise? What does the situation look like come deadline next year. Zibanejad is under contract at a steal so not sure where he comes into question. To me Zibanejad is a core piece going forward. That can change over time but he seems like a great place to start building. To be honest I’m not sure on kreider. Well Kreider is the same age as Panarin. I imagine he also wants a long term deal (7 years?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Falco Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Well Kreider is the same age as Panarin. I imagine he also wants a long term deal (7 years?). Speaking of which, I'm totally onboard with trading Kreider. He's never going to be more than what he's been on this team. Might as well get a good return for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfrancesa Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Well Kreider is the same age as Panarin. I imagine he also wants a long term deal (7 years?). Sure. Kreider is already here and has another year left under his current contract. So if kreider was a ufa this year I would have dealt him at the deadline. Like I said I would shop him this summer. If I didn’t like the offers I may hold onto him and reassess the situation during next season in which a decision could be made at next deadline. Of course what he wants matters. I don’t think he’s getting close to panarain money but who knows. If that’s the case I trade him. Regardless a decision on him doesn’t have to be made this summer like it does with panarain. The team as it’s positioned now should not hand out contracts like what panarain will get. If next year some of the young guys take massive strides and the team is improving quicker than thought than maybe I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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