Phil Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Gavrikov is a rough Lindgren comparison no? Not that this is much of a comparison of a contract. It seems clear Gavrikov wants to delay a big deal until the flat cap is over. If he's worth this on a 2 year deal though, I have to think Lindgren's next deal exceeds 5 pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWantsTheCup Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 If Gavrikov is worth 5.875M Lindgren has to be over 6M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, RJWantsTheCup said: If Gavrikov is worth 5.875M Lindgren has to be over 6M. Yeah, this is a really bad contract for the Kings, and it's going to wind up being a bad contract that gets benchmarked. Trouba contract was probably used as a benchmark for this one. Let's pay average defenseman all the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 I wish Trouba was average most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said: I wish Trouba was average most of the time. Trouba and Miller have compounding issues defensively that makes them an odd pair. They probably need different partners to help hide the mistakes. Edited June 8, 2023 by BrooksBurner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Trouba and Miller have compounding issues defensively that makes them an odd pair. They probably need different partners to help hide the mistakes. Or just some coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 35 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Or just some coaching. ...and a defensive system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Long live the King said: Or just some coaching. Trouba at 29 has never had coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Trouba at 29 has never had coaching Who said that? Everyone knows that coaching in the NHL and coaching in mites isn't the same right? If they had effective coaching we wouldn't complain about every non-Lindgren's D-zone coverage. When every Dman looks lost in the D-zone and their only zone exit is high off the glass, that's a coaching issue. Not because they don't know how to play, but because they don't know what each other are doing because they're all freelancing because the coach hasn't given them a system where everyone has a defined assignment and role. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Who said that? Everyone knows that coaching in the NHL and coaching in mites isn't the same right? If they had effective coaching we wouldn't complain about every non-Lindgren's D-zone coverage. When every Dman looks lost in the D-zone and their only zone exit is high off the glass, that's a coaching issue. Not because they don't know how to play, but because they don't know what each other are doing because they're all freelancing because the coach hasn't given them a system where everyone has a defined assignment and role. Bang on, and I don't know why it keeps needing to be repeated over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Who said that? Everyone knows that coaching in the NHL and coaching in mites isn't the same right? If they had effective coaching we wouldn't complain about every non-Lindgren's D-zone coverage. When every Dman looks lost in the D-zone and their only zone exit is high off the glass, that's a coaching issue. Not because they don't know how to play, but because they don't know what each other are doing because they're all freelancing because the coach hasn't given them a system where everyone has a defined assignment and role. Trouba went directly from mites to 29 years old playing for Gallant? That's an interesting theory. Lindgren, Fox, Mikkola, and Miller don't just go high off the glass. Trouba and Schneider are more guilty of that. Trouba and Miller have the fumbles and suck under pressure with the puck. That's what I was referring to by compounding issues. We can try to blame that on coaching like everything else, but the other guys except for maybe Schneider who is still very green didn't have that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: Trouba went directly from mites to 29 years old playing for Gallant? That's an interesting theory. Lindgren, Fox, Mikkola, and Miller don't just go high off the glass. Trouba and Schneider are more guilty of that. Trouba and Miller have the fumbles and suck under pressure with the puck. That's what I was referring to by compounding issues. We can try to blame that on coaching like everything else, but the other guys except for maybe Schneider who is still very green didn't have that issue. What? There's a difference between growing up and learning fundamentals, and being in the NHL and working within a system with your teammates. Both are coaching, both are different. Why are they under pressure with the puck? Because they have to think about what they need to do with the puck before they move it which makes them hold onto the puck too long because they don't know where their outlets are because they have no system. Lindgren plays with Fox, Mikkola looked fine with Fox when Lindgren was hurt. Fox is a top 3 dman in the League and has a special ability to hold onto the puck and read the play. That doesn't mean they'd be even better if they could move the puck quicker within a system where everyone is on the same page. Edited June 8, 2023 by Long live the King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 21 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Why are they under pressure with the puck? Because they have to think about what they need to do with the puck before they move it which makes them hold onto the puck too long because they don't know where their outlets are because they have no system. Lindgren plays with Fox, Mikkola looked fine with Fox when Lindgren was hurt. Fox is a top 3 dman in the League and has a special ability to hold onto the puck and read the play. That doesn't mean they'd be even better if they could move the puck quicker within a system where everyone is on the same page. I can't disagree with that at all! I would love to see a system implemented where these guys have a good idea of where to go with the puck. Better yet...WHERE NOT TO GO with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Long live the King said: What? There's a difference between growing up and learning fundamentals, and being in the NHL and working within a system with your teammates. Both are coaching, both are different. Why are they under pressure with the puck? Because they have to think about what they need to do with the puck before they move it which makes them hold onto the puck too long because they don't know where their outlets are because they have no system. Lindgren plays with Fox, Mikkola looked fine with Fox when Lindgren was hurt. Fox is a top 3 dman in the League and has a special ability to hold onto the puck and read the play. That doesn't mean they'd be even better if they could move the puck quicker within a system where everyone is on the same page. You said the issue was coaching. I said "Trouba at 29 has never had coaching?". You then randomly said there's a difference between Mites coaching and NHL coaching. That's implying that Trouba hasn't had any coaching befit for the NHL to help him out. He's 29 years old with 10 years in the league. Why are they under pressure with the puck? Because that's hockey and good teams apply pressure. It's a mixture of yes, coaching, but also player execution. You're weighting too heavily towards coaching as the problem for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 37 minutes ago, BrooksBurner said: You said the issue was coaching. I said "Trouba at 29 has never had coaching?". You then randomly said there's a difference between Mites coaching and NHL coaching. That's implying that Trouba hasn't had any coaching befit for the NHL to help him out. He's 29 years old with 10 years in the league. Why are they under pressure with the puck? Because that's hockey and good teams apply pressure. It's a mixture of yes, coaching, but also player execution. You're weighting too heavily towards coaching as the problem for everything. You're still missing the point. He doesn't need coaching to learn how to play the game because as you pointed out he's 29 and in the NHL. What he didn't get from GG was a structured plan for D-zone coverage and zone exits. He was winging it out there, which was a common issue with anyone not paired with Fox. Yes, good teams apply pressure. Well-coached teams (not the Rangers) have a plan to deal with pressure. If have a few set breakouts, the players know where their outlets are and they can make quick decisions to exit the zone. If the opponent shuts those set plays down, the coach should be able *gasp* to make adjustments accordingly. Poorly coached teams (this one's the Rangers) don't have a plan. When the Dmen retreive the puck in the D-zone they need to stop, hold onto to puck, find out where all their teammates are, and then decide what play to make. Only Fox is good enough to hold onto the puck that long and his partner simply has to play catch with him. There needs to be a plan in order for the players to execute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 hours ago, BrooksBurner said: Trouba went directly from mites to 29 years old playing for Gallant? That's an interesting theory. Lindgren, Fox, Mikkola, and Miller don't just go high off the glass. Trouba and Schneider are more guilty of that. Trouba and Miller have the fumbles and suck under pressure with the puck. That's what I was referring to by compounding issues. We can try to blame that on coaching like everything else, but the other guys except for maybe Schneider who is still very green didn't have that issue. Fox and Lindgren don't really, but they are on the same pair. Miller uses his legs more than his passes for zone exits, but the point there is that it doesn't get the puck up to the forwards with any kind of speed. So that leaves 4/6 defenseman who are not getting the forwards the pucks at the right time. Mikkola absolutely part of that group. His puck skills are nil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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