Has Alexis Lafreniere Arrived?

[Kick save and a beauty]

Chytil has arrived.  Laffy is closer than Kappo but he has not arrived yet, especially given his #1 overall "pedigree" (air quotes).

 

Still some ways to go but in both of their cases they seem to be still improving so there is that.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Probably, yeah. Plus, look at the team at the time. Lots of other rookies and young players who were just as bad, if not worse.

He was bad, but you're right, there were a few players even worse.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000482021.html

 

Chytil, Kakko, Rooney, Gauthier, DiGiuseppe (sorry Ozzy), Brendan Lemieux, Brett Howden, Vitaly Kravtsov.

 

Wasn't a lot of good players on that team outside of the top 2 lines (Kreids, Zib, Buch, Panarin, Strome, Blackwell).

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I don't agree. I mean, I do that he was absolutely brutal. Same with Kakko. If you recall, I was relentless about how both of them needed to be in the AHL. Lafreniere simply couldn't go due to silly bylaws, but clearly wasn't ready. Neither was Kakko, who was arguably the worst forward in the entire NHL his rookie year.

 

But Laf's linemates were undoubtedly a component in all of this. When you're a skilled player now playing with a bad center on a third line with a non-NHL winger, never seeing the PP, you're being set up to fail. I don't think there's any coincidence that as Chytil has improved, and the team have finally given up on the Gauthier experiment, that Lafreniere has gotten better. To what degree I'm sure we could argue over, but to dismiss the quality of who you play with as entirely inconsequential to the ability of a player to produce or not is a bridge too far for me.

No...We talked many times about his individual play. His slow, bad skating, lack of compete, being out of shape, has nothing to do with linemates.

 

He was seen #1 OA's come in and do things without linemates before. HE was the issue.

[Phil]

Just now, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

He was bad, but you're right, there were a few players even worse.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000482021.html

 

Chytil, Kakko, Rooney, Gauthier, DiGiuseppe (sorry Ozzy), Brendan Lemieux, Brett Howden, Vitaly Kravtsov.

 

Wasn't a lot of good players on that team outside of the top 2 lines (Kreids, Zib, Buch, Panarin, Strome, Blackwell).

 

Who he didn't play with. The entire bottom-six was an exercise in futility, Lafreniere included. Partially because he wasn't ready, and partially because no one around him was very good, either. Even bad/not ready rookies tend to do a little better when they're insulated with quality players. It's how many teams acclimate them to the NHL at an early age. The Rangers failed on that front because he was brought in mid-rebuild when the team had yet to solidify its forward ranks properly.

[Phil]

Just now, Pete said:

No...We talked many times about his individual play. His slow, bad skating, lack of compete, being out of shape, has nothing to do with linemates.

 

He was seen #1 OA's come in and do things without linemates before. HE was the issue.

 

No disagreement. Right up to the last sentence. I recognize I'm arguing from an unfalsifiable position, but I just don't follow the logic that suggests that an ineffective rookie couldn't be more effective inspite of his flaws if he were playing with a more developed forward group.

 

Take Laine, as an example. When he was drafted in '16, he played the majority of that season with Ehlers, Scheifele, and Little, rather than Mattias, Lowry, etc. He wasn't without warts, too, but I think you can attribute some of his early success to the fact he wasn't asked to create something out of nothing by being shackled to unproductive players. Matthews went first overall that year, too. He played with Nylander and Hyman and sometimes Connor Brown right out of the gate.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

No disagreement. Right up to the last sentence. I recognize I'm arguing from an unfalsifiable position, but I just don't follow the logic that suggests that an ineffective rookie couldn't be more effective inspite of his flaws if he were playing with a more developed forward group.

 

Take Laine, as an example. When he was drafted in '16, he played the majority of that season with Ehlers, Scheifele, and Little, rather than Mattias, Lowry, etc. He wasn't without warts, too, but I think you can attribute some of his early success to the fact he wasn't asked to create something out of nothing by being shackled to unproductive players. Matthews went first overall that year, too. He played with Nylander and Hyman and sometimes Connor Brown right out of the gate.

I mean I hear you, both things are true. But what I was reading earlier in the thread was more like "He was fine, it was just his linemates", he definitely wasn't fine.

[Phil]

Just now, Pete said:

I mean I hear you, both things are true. But what I was reading earlier in the thread was more like "He was fine, it was just his linemates", he definitely wasn't fine.

 

Totally agree. He had really visible warts. Like, we were kidding, kind of, but he looked completely out of shape every game. Like, they'd cut to him on the bench, and he'd be gassed and it was the first period. It was astounding. Understandably, with the Covid seasons that probably damaged his playing condition, but the on-ice results were horrible.

[RichieNextel305]

I think the emergence of the Kid Line gave all 3 of them confidence and the know-how of how to play the game. Even when they had shifts where they weren’t producing goals, and they were creating chances, I feel like it has given them all the kick in the ass they needed to know like “hey, we can do this at this level.”

 

Of the 3, Lafreniere has the most talent and most potential. I think having the confidence and the knowledge of what it takes to be successful in this league is going to go a long way with him. Having him play with confidence, and now in a Top-6 role, will be enormous for us.

[RangerDanger]

Not gonna lie, seeing him play RW on a line with Panarin makes me giddy. I know he's more comfortable on LW, and it's only been a game and a half so it's hard to predict, but it almost looked like there was chemistry there last night. Wouldn't mind seeing him play RW for a bit just to see how that line shakes out Throw Blais down on the 3rd line when he comes back for 8 more games (and then gets injured again). 

[-ERIK-]

Almost there,looking better, looks much more relaxed and comfortable as well, just hope Gallant keeps line together if they have a few hiccups and doesn't break them up.