Robin Lehner Attempting to 'fix' Eichel Situation

[Phil]

 

[SaveByRichter35]

Blow that whistle, Robin.

[siddious]

I personally find lehner kind of annoying but 100% think he’s doing a good thing here (or at least trying).

 

from yesterday but;

 

 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

Not directly related to this but Dan Carrillo had a tough story about Steve Montador and his issues

i hope something seriously changes about the way players are treated and their health is protected. Montador is an example of just how bad it can get 

 

The tweet thread goes on way longer and is worth a read 

Edited October 3, 2021 by BlairBettsBlocksEverything

[Pete]

32 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Not directly related to this but Dan Carrillo had a tough story about Steve Montador and his issues

i hope something seriously changes about the way players are treated and their health is protected. Montador is an example of just how bad it can get 

 

The tweet thread goes on way longer and is worth a read 

You know the players need to take some responsibility, too. Do they need to be saved from themselves? Because I'm sure if Montador were here, he'd have said he wanted to play every single time. 

[Valriera]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

You know the players need to take some responsibility, too. Do they need to be saved from themselves? Because I'm sure if Montador were here, he'd have said he wanted to play every single time. 

This is so important. Nobody else is responsible for you, your health, and your mental health. The fact that there are contract stipulations in professional sports that change certain players’ rights (see eichel) doesn’t change the fact that every individual is responsible for their own health. The Eichel situation is actually so good here, because if the individual so strongly believes they should get a certain type of care, then they should absolutely go for it, and if that leads to contract termination, ok. Maybe you make less money next contract if you still want to play. Fine. But when it comes to health (and mental health) we need to learn to be more responsible for ourselves and remove this expectation that our care should be managed by someone else.

[Lord Al]

 

[Lord Al]

 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

15 hours ago, Pete said:

You know the players need to take some responsibility, too. Do they need to be saved from themselves? Because I'm sure if Montador were here, he'd have said he wanted to play every single time. 

Im sure he would have. Im also sure that if he felt seeking outside help for his concussion issues was an option, he would have done so earlier. 

I just wonder how long this has been going on (I mean, probably the entire history of the league) where players are treated for the immediate short-term only, with no consideration given to their long term/post career health.

This current story of Nolan Patrick is disgusting too. He's a young kid, and his team doctors are telling him to take these pills to get better. You should be able to trust the team doctors to look out for your health. Seems like, at least in some circumstances, that isn't the case currently.

I hope the problem isn't as bad as Lehner is making it seem. 

 

 

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

Im sure he would have. Im also sure that if he felt seeking outside help for his concussion issues was an option, he would have done so earlier. 

I just wonder how long this has been going on (I mean, probably the entire history of the league) where players are treated for the immediate short-term only, with no consideration given to their long term/post career health.

This current story of Nolan Patrick is disgusting too. He's a young kid, and his team doctors are telling him to take these pills to get better. You should be able to trust the team doctors to look out for your health. Seems like, at least in some circumstances, that isn't the case currently.

I hope the problem isn't as bad as Lehner is making it seem. 

 

 

You always have a choice. If you don't like what your doctor is telling you, you can always find a new one. 

Eichel and Patrick aren't too far apart in age but Eichel doesn't seem to have an issue looking for another path.

Maybe it's family support system or a better agent? Where is the agent in all this, since players by and large don't even wipe their ass without guidance from an agent ... ?

[Albatrosss]

15 hours ago, Valriera said:

This is so important. Nobody else is responsible for you, your health, and your mental health. The fact that there are contract stipulations in professional sports that change certain players’ rights (see eichel) doesn’t change the fact that every individual is responsible for their own health. The Eichel situation is actually so good here, because if the individual so strongly believes they should get a certain type of care, then they should absolutely go for it, and if that leads to contract termination, ok. Maybe you make less money next contract if you still want to play. Fine. But when it comes to health (and mental health) we need to learn to be more responsible for ourselves and remove this expectation that our care should be managed by someone else.

That’s crazy. He was cleared by the doctors. If a doctor said you were okay, u’d think you’re ok. 

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

12 minutes ago, Pete said:

You always have a choice. If you don't like what your doctor is telling you, you can always find a new one. 

Eichel and Patrick aren't too far apart in age but Eichel doesn't seem to have an issue looking for another path.

Maybe it's family support system or a better agent? Where is the agent in all this, since players by and large don't even wipe their ass without guidance from an agent ... ?

I think the implication here, if we can loop the montador story back in for a sec (obviously much different times and circumstances) is that you can't. If the Eichel situation is any indication on how teams feel about you seeking a different medical opinion outside of the organization, I'd say its.....highly discouraged. 

 

Eichel was able to look for another path because of his status as a player. Obviously they havent actually let him get the procedure him and his doctors felt they needed to.

Like in the Montador story, Carcillo notes that Crosby was able to seek outside help and get better. Guys like Crosby and Eichel probably have more leverage to take things into their own hands. Teams understand who these guys are and how important they are to the business. Players like Montador, Patrick, Lehner, probably don't have that same luxury.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

You always have a choice. If you don't like what your doctor is telling you, you can always find a new one. 

Eichel and Patrick aren't too far apart in age but Eichel doesn't seem to have an issue looking for another path.

Maybe it's family support system or a better agent? Where is the agent in all this, since players by and large don't even wipe their ass without guidance from an agent ... ?

You should be able to fully trust your team's doctors. You say every player out there needs to question everything their doctor tells them?

This is hockey players, they rarely know what's the best treatment. Especially not a 20 year old who is fighting for his spot on the team. No 20 y/old is gonna risk his career because he dont want to take the painkillers HIS DOCTOR is giving him.

Its getting fairly dangerous if you can't even trust your own teams doctors and have to get someone from the outside to evalute everything. What's the point with the team doctors then?

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

You should be able to fully trust your team's doctors. You say every player out there needs to question everything their doctor tells them?

This is hockey players, they rarely know what's the best treatment. Especially not a 20 year old who is fighting for his spot on the team. No 20 y/old is gonna risk his career because he dont want to take the painkillers HIS DOCTOR is giving him.

Its getting fairly dangerous if you can't even trust your own teams doctors and have to get someone from the outside to evalute everything. What's the point with the team doctors then?

I don't know what to tell you homie, you get three opinions before getting your house painted but you wouldn't get more than one opinion before getting a serious medical procedure or taking a drug you've never taken before?

That just sounds bananas to me but then again I'm not a millennial and it could just be a generational thing.

I went to three doctors before getting my hip operated on, and I'm not a professional athlete that depends on their body for their livelihood. 

To me it just seems like common sense especially for anybody who's ever watched Any Given Sunday.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

I think the implication here, if we can loop the montador story back in for a sec (obviously much different times and circumstances) is that you can't. If the Eichel situation is any indication on how teams feel about you seeking a different medical opinion outside of the organization, I'd say its.....highly discouraged. 

 

Eichel was able to look for another path because of his status as a player. Obviously they havent actually let him get the procedure him and his doctors felt they needed to.

Like in the Montador story, Carcillo notes that Crosby was able to seek outside help and get better. Guys like Crosby and Eichel probably have more leverage to take things into their own hands. Teams understand who these guys are and how important they are to the business. Players like Montador, Patrick, Lehner, probably don't have that same luxury.

See my post above this, you share the responsibility with your doctors for your own body. The team doesn't need to empower you to find your own second opinion, you just need to go and do it if you care about your health.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

Right, but what I'm saying is that, maybe with the exception for top tier, franchise level players, that option will have consequences. Montador was immediately waived and sent down after being cleared when seeking outside medical help. Maybe that was more about him as a player. But you'd think that, given his history and his level at the time, if getting sent down was going to happen, it would have happened before that last time. Maybe not, maybe its a coincidence. Just saying it's troubling.

The overall issue is that, at least with some teams/players, the team doctors are not looking out for the long-term health and interests of the players. Who is to say how badly things could get for Nolan Patrick had he continued just taking his team doctor's advice. 

You are right, these agents should maybe do more to look out for their clients too. Still, players should be able to reasonably expect that the doctors that are part of their team should not be doing what they are doing. 

[Valriera]

36 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

You should be able to fully trust your team's doctors. You say every player out there needs to question everything their doctor tells them?

This is hockey players, they rarely know what's the best treatment. Especially not a 20 year old who is fighting for his spot on the team. No 20 y/old is gonna risk his career because he dont want to take the painkillers HIS DOCTOR is giving him.

Its getting fairly dangerous if you can't even trust your own teams doctors and have to get someone from the outside to evalute everything. What's the point with the team doctors then?

Yes, you should question every major decision about your own personal health. This is a situation where listening to people who have learned that lesson the hard way is a good idea.

the team doctors are there for first and second aid, but i would absolutely coach anyone to receive multiple opinions before major surgery.

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

2 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Yes, you should question every major decision about your own personal health. This is a situation where listening to people who have learned that lesson the hard way is a good idea.

the team doctors are there for first and second aid, but i would absolutely coach anyone to receive multiple opinions before major surgery.

I completely agree.

Just sad that we live in a world right now where we're forced to not do this.

[Valriera]

1 hour ago, CCCP said:

That’s crazy. He was cleared by the doctors. If a doctor said you were okay, u’d think you’re ok. 

If one car mechanic looks at your transmission and says you need to pay him ten grand to fix it, do you pay?

[Valriera]

Just now, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

I completely agree.

Just sad that we live in a world right now where we're forced to not do this.

Agreed on the sentiment - it’s true in healthcare and with lawyers too, it sucks 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

34 minutes ago, Pete said:

I don't know what to tell you homie, you get three opinions before getting your house painted but you wouldn't get more than one opinion before getting a serious medical procedure or taking a drug you've never taken before?

That just sounds bananas to me but then again I'm not a millennial and it could just be a generational thing.

I went to three doctors before getting my hip operated on, and I'm not a professional athlete that depends on their body for their livelihood. 

To me it just seems like common sense especially for anybody who's ever watched Any Given Sunday.

But you didn't run the risk of getting a multi million dollar contract terminated either. You had the option to do whatever you wanted, NHL players clearly don't (ref Eichel).

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

yeah i think the better example is, you have a health issue, and your employer is telling you to not get the procedure that will help you out long term but might mean to have to take more time off. They are going to fire you, or withold raises/promotions unless you get a more minor procedure that only keeps you off of work for a short time.

[Pete]

54 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

But you didn't run the risk of getting a multi million dollar contract terminated either. You had the option to do whatever you wanted, NHL players clearly don't (ref Eichel).

They do. If they're willing to walk away from the money. He's already made a lot more than most.

The Sabres don't have him chained to a radiator. He can physically go for surgery whenever he wants. 

[Pete]

35 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

yeah i think the better example is, you have a health issue, and your employer is telling you to not get the procedure that will help you out long term but might mean to have to take more time off. They are going to fire you, or withold raises/promotions unless you get a more minor procedure that only keeps you off of work for a short time.

This doesn't equate, sports to real life. He's made $32M. He can retire tomorrow. I can't. 

Does Eichel really need to worry about having his deal terminated?

Edited October 4, 2021 by Pete

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

They do. If they're willing to walk away from the money. He's already made a lot more than most.

The Sabres don't have him chained to a radiator. He can physically go for surgery whenever he wants. 

Yeah sure, if you give up a guaranteed 30 million dollars you can do whatever you want.

You understand that's not a good solution tho?