The Bottom Six

[BrooksBurner]

We have many players who are not quality NHL players taking up our bottom 6 right now. Obviously, going into the season the hope was that Howden and Andersson would largely contribute in these spots and make an impact. Both have failed to this point, with Andersson back in Hartford and Howden pacing 19 points despite a good amount of ice time and opportunity. They may yet be good in the future, but clearly not right now.

 

This is currently a big problem for the team. They get zero production from their bottom 6. Howden, Smith, Haley, and McKegg. Kakko (5v5) when he's been assigned to the 3rd line. These guys simply haven't been near good enough to supplement our top scorers. They almost never chip in goals.

 

I'd like to understand where the accountability lies that has been preached by Quinn since he was brought here. Hartford is playing very well and there are guys who have earned a look (or another look), especially given the performance of those currently on the Rangers roster. Yes, we joke about Quinn coins and how players earning a leash. When did Howden, Haley, Smith, McKegg earn a leash? Why can't we see what a Lettieri, Fogarty, O'Regan, etc. can do up with the team this year? I don't expect miracles from any of these players, and they may not even be any better or they could wind up being worse, but they have shown a pulse in Hartford opposed to the guys I've mentioned currently on the team. We won't know unless it is tried.

 

So, what's the best path forward here? Try different things or just keep sending the same junk out there hoping for a different result?

[NYR2711]

I don't agree with Kakko being on the 4th line. The kid keeps getting bounced around the lineup. If its going to be a rebuild, they need to let the kid play and develop. He had what 8 or 9 shots on net against the Kings, let him work it out, he isn't going to get better playing with Smith and McKegg. The line combos are what really annoy me about Quinn. The third line with Chytil and Buch seems to be working pretty good.

[Dunny]

I'd really like to see Lettieri get another shot. He re-signed here, for some reason, I would think part of that equation was opportunity.

[Long live the King]

Patience is the answer.

 

Lettieri was up for 27 games last year. They know what he is, and thats an AHL player. Same with Boo. Fogarty and O'Regan are AHL players as well at 25 and 26, and they aren't waivers exempt. Fogarty is the Captain down there. They aren't going to call him up. Those guys are all McKegg. They aren't going to do anything different.

[josh]

Remove Howden from the third line.

Add someone with skill to the third line.

 

Voila.

[Pete]

This year, your wings are combos of:

 

Panarin/Kakko

Kreider/Buch

Lemieux/Fast

Smith/McKegg

 

Which is fine.

 

Next year swap Kreider for Kravtsov. There's enough talent there to score.

 

It's really the fact that Howden is trash and Chytil has cooled significantly.

[BrooksBurner]

Patience is the answer.

 

Lettieri was up for 27 games last year. They know what he is, and thats an AHL player. Same with Boo. Fogarty and O'Regan are AHL players as well at 25 and 26, and they aren't waivers exempt. Fogarty is the Captain down there. They aren't going to call him up. Those guys are all McKegg. They aren't going to do anything different.

 

Fair point about waivers exempt with Fogarty and O'Regan, especially Fogarty. We wouldn't want to risk losing him out of the system as he appears to be playing a good role on the Pack. However, I disagree that we've seen enough Lettieri to make the assertion you've made. 27 games is nothing, and we have had guys on this roster get far more games played to do just as little as Lettieri did last year. By the way, I think there's a significant difference between not producing on last year's terrible team versus not producing on this year's more competitive team. I'd love to see Letteri get another crack at it.

[BrooksBurner]

Remove Howden from the third line.

Add someone with skill to the third line.

 

Voila.

 

So....Lettieri?

[Ozzy]

I think the thing comes together after next season. There's a lot of shit to be removed; Smith, Staal, Hank's deal, ...along with some dead space on the books.

 

That frees us up to possibly go get a Free agent, or maybe 2 that can be impact players. But the key is after next year...I don't see these guys going too far this year. Maybe sniffing the playoffs next season, but after that all bets are ON.

[josh]

So....Lettieri?

 

No, but if you have Kravtsov in the NHL, you have your top 3 RWs Kravtsov, Buchnevich and Kakko. One of them would be working with Strome or Chytil (or Andersson)

[BrooksBurner]

This year, your wings are combos of:

 

Panarin/Kakko

Kreider/Buch

Lemieux/Fast

Smith/McKegg

 

Which is fine.

 

Next year swap Kreider for Kravtsov. There's enough talent there to score.

 

It's really the fact that Howden is trash and Chytil has cooled significantly.

 

Chytil has cooled production wise, but he's still playing somewhat noticeable hockey IMO. He doesn't look lost is what I'm saying, just in a slump with production.

 

I don't think Smith/McKegg is fine. It's garbage. I'm not sure Fast is a 3rd line player anymore either, at least in today's NHL. Ideally, he's probably more of an energy 4th line winger and PKer on a contending team. I'd be much more content with:

 

Lemieux/____

____/Fast

 

And fill in the blanks.

[josh]

Chytil has cooled production wise, but he's still playing somewhat noticeable hockey IMO. He doesn't look lost is what I'm saying, just in a slump with production.

 

I don't think Smith/McKegg is fine. It's garbage. I'm not sure Fast is a 3rd line player anymore either, at least in today's NHL. Ideally, he's probably more of an energy 4th line winger and PKer on a contending team. I'd be much more content with:

 

Lemieux/____

____/Fast

 

And fill in the blanks.

 

Probably because he got moved out of the top 6. The last 2 weeks he's seen much more time with McKegg Smith and Fast

 

I'm fine with an unproductive 4th line of Lemieux - Howden - Fast. The problem is Quinn uses that as a third line. So now you have 2 unproductive lines. It's rough. Smith, McKegg, Haley are not be NHL regulars.

[Pete]

Chytil has cooled production wise, but he's still playing somewhat noticeable hockey IMO. He doesn't look lost is what I'm saying, just in a slump with production.

 

I don't think Smith/McKegg is fine. It's garbage. I'm not sure Fast is a 3rd line player anymore either, at least in today's NHL. Ideally, he's probably more of an energy 4th line winger and PKer on a contending team. I'd be much more content with:

 

Lemieux/____

____/Fast

 

And fill in the blanks.

Fair on Cheats.

 

In a cap league, I don't see how you're doing better than those fourth-line wingers. The guys you're suggesting from the A are not significant improvements over guys like McKegg and Smith has a certain role right now.

 

I don't know what doesn't make Fast a third-line winger anymore, but sure whatever ideally he's on your fourth line.

 

This is what happens when you sell a lot of middle 6 depth at deadlines.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I would be more concerned if this year mattered. It really doesn't.

[Ozzy]

Probably because he got moved out of the top 6. The last 2 weeks he's seen much more time with McKegg Smith and Fast

 

I'm fine with an unproductive 4th line of Lemieux - Howden - Fast. The problem is Quinn uses that as a third line. So now you have 2 unproductive lines. It's rough. Smith, McKegg, Haley are not be NHL regulars.

 

I've liked Chytil's game of late. It's fairly easy to see he's skating with a TON more confidence than he did last year. He's made pretty good progress in my estimation. But you're right; no one is going to prosper with the likes of Haley, Smith and McKegg and company.

 

That whole bottom 6 may be history by the start of next season, so I'm thinking it's not going to matter much the rest of the way. This is learn and grow year...possibly next year too! I wouldn't mind seeing Lias come up and give it another go. The others are pretty much career AHL players to me.

[BrooksBurner]

Fair on Cheats.

 

In a cap league, I don't see how you're doing better than those fourth-line wingers. The guys you're suggesting from the A are not significant improvements over guys like McKegg and Smith has a certain role right now.

 

I don't know what doesn't make Fast a third-line winger anymore, but sure whatever ideally he's on your fourth line.

 

This is what happens when you sell a lot of middle 6 depth at deadlines.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I would be more concerned if this year mattered. It really doesn't.

 

Your last comment that it doesn't matter is important. The vets would disagree, but we all know the expectation isn't playoffs. So why are they dredging out trash in those spots rather than doing what I've mentioned? Letteiri is 24. Give him another look like they did with Nieves. What's the harm? Smith/McKegg/Haley don't get to play? If the season is supposed to be about development and evaluating guys for next year, those guys shouldn't be anywhere near the roster.

[Pete]

Your last comment that it doesn't matter is important. The vets would disagree, but we all know the expectation isn't playoffs. So why are they dredging out trash in those spots rather than doing what I've mentioned? Letteiri is 24. Give him another look like they did with Nieves. What's the harm? Smith/McKegg/Haley don't get to play? If the season is supposed to be about development and evaluating guys for next year, those guys shouldn't be anywhere near the roster.

I get it, but also don't see the point of Lettieri in a bottom 6 role. 3rd line RW with Chytil and Lemieux?

 

I don't know. Difference seems negligible.

[RJWantsTheCup]

This season and next season I see them finishing in the 7th-10th range in the conference. The season after next is when they should be a playoff team.

That being said I don't see Lettieri being any kind of difference maker. I rather see if Kravtsov forces them to call him up.

[Long live the King]

Your last comment that it doesn't matter is important. The vets would disagree, but we all know the expectation isn't playoffs. So why are they dredging out trash in those spots rather than doing what I've mentioned? Letteiri is 24. Give him another look like they did with Nieves. What's the harm? Smith/McKegg/Haley don't get to play? If the season is supposed to be about development and evaluating guys for next year, those guys shouldn't be anywhere near the roster.

 

I'm pretty sure Quinn, Gorton, and JD have evaluated Lettieri, and they chose to give Gettinger a call up instead.

 

Patience is the answer.

 

Ideally in 2021-2022, when Smith, Hank, Staal, and most of the buyout money is freed up you're looking at:

 

Zib, Panarin, Chytil, Kakko being 4 of your top 6. Hoping Kravtsov gets it together. And you have Lemieux, Barron, Henriksson, Pajuniemi, Howden, Andersson. Carving out roles in the bottom 6. Add to that a pick in the 10-15 range this summer, then you're in a position to fill roles from FA. And this doesn't include what you may get from trades.

[BrooksBurner]

I'm pretty sure Quinn, Gorton, and JD have evaluated Lettieri, and they chose to give Gettinger a call up instead.

 

Patience is the answer.

 

Ideally in 2021-2022, when Smith, Hank, Staal, and most of the buyout money is freed up you're looking at:

 

Zib, Panarin, Chytil, Kakko being 4 of your top 6. Hoping Kravtsov gets it together. And you have Lemieux, Barron, Henriksson, Pajuniemi, Howden, Andersson. Carving out roles in the bottom 6. Add to that a pick in the 10-15 range this summer, then you're in a position to fill roles from FA. And this doesn't include what you may get from trades.

 

Gettinger got called up for one game, so I guess they evaluated him in one game too. That is not why he got called up in place of Lettieri.

 

Patience is not why Smith, McKegg, Haley are on the team. Patience is why Howden is, so I can at least understand that point of view even if he hasn't earned his keep.

 

They can do things now without sacrificing patience. I'm not asking for a trade to immediately fill it. I'm saying it should be a revolving door, almost as a tryout. I think we all know what we've got with the players I've mentioned who are currently on the team. It certainly won't hurt anything.

[Sod16]

I think McKegg is good enough to play on our fourth line, but not the rest of them. Andersson has spent plenty of time in the AHL over three years, and it hasn't done him much good. Howden, however, has not played there, and I wonder if half a season there would do him some good. I don't have answers for building a fourth line beyond some trades that we are unlikely to make. This is going to be a weakness until at least next season. Currently, this line never really chips in a goal or draws penalties. I can't think of any sequences where our 4th line cycled and drove the opposition nuts. I hoped that Nieves might stir things up, but he didn't.

[TwoMinutesForNothing]

I wanna see Fogarty.

[Pete]

Fogarty is 26. McKegg is 27.

 

Again, probably not a real tangible difference.