Pete Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Upon further review I agree he absolutely nails the guy right in the noggin. I'm reduced to arguing I don't believe that should be illegal, consider Dal Colle is skating with his head down. But point definitely taken.Bingo. My issue isn't with the hit, it's with the rules (and DoPS interpretation of them being so inconsistent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddious Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Gotta keep your head up in the middle of the ice Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 First point of contact ≠ principal point of contact. I think the principal point of contact is Dal Colle's chest with the head being the first point of contact. Yup. This. Additionally, they removed the "principal point of contact" wording from the rulebook for lack of clarity. It now reads, in it's entirety: Rule 48 – Illegal Check to the Head 48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted. In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be considered: (i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the body upward or outward. SECTION 6 – PHYSICAL FOULS NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE OFFICIAL RULES 2018-2019 78 (ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable. (iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact. The head was the first point of contact, but barely. The top of the shoulder did make some contact with the bottom of the chin. However, this in and of itself does not make it an illegal check. The head, in this case, was absolutely not the main point of contact. 98% of the check was shoulder to chest. Section i: Trouba attempted to hit squarely through the body via shoulder to chest. At no point did he pick the head, nor was it a bad angle or approach. Section ii: Del Calle put himself in a vulnerable position with his head down. Section iii: Del Calle materially changed body position. He mishandled the puck off the pass, which forced him to put his head down and turn his entire body towards center ice instead of going his initial route which was up the wing. By the rulebook, this was absolutely not an illegal check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRangers723 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 It was a legal hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Bingo. My issue isn't with the hit, it's with the rules (and DoPS interpretation of them being so inconsistent). You're right, man. The rule is the issue. When I watched the hit, I saw hands down, stick down, and shoulder to what I thought was the chest. Dal Colle had his head down, and when you skate with your head down, your chin drops into your chest. That's kinda why they always tell you, "don't skate with your head down" in the first place. I thought the hit was a good hockey hit....and it was! Like Pete said though, as far as the rules are stated, it was considered an "illegal hit", which should be addressed. Because a play like that, which happens in a blink of an eye, cannot be blamed on what's considered standard operating procedure for a physical defenseman. If an offensive player plays with his head down, more often than not, he's gonna take one to the chin/head. There's no place else to target them to lay a hit on them if they're skating in a straight line at you....other than maybe target the legs, which is even worse in my book. Anyway, the rule needs to be looked at, because that was a good solid hockey hit and that shit should be part of the game in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Yup. This. Additionally, they removed the "principal point of contact" wording from the rulebook for lack of clarity. It now reads, in it's entirety: The head was the first point of contact, but barely. The top of the shoulder did make some contact with the bottom of the chin. However, this in and of itself does not make it an illegal check. The head, in this case, was absolutely not the main point of contact. 98% of the check was shoulder to chest. Section i: Trouba attempted to hit squarely through the body via shoulder to chest. At no point did he pick the head, nor was it a bad angle or approach. Section ii: Del Calle put himself in a vulnerable position with his head down. Section iii: Del Calle materially changed body position. He mishandled the puck off the pass, which forced him to put his head down and turn his entire body towards center ice instead of going his initial route which was up the wing. By the rulebook, this was absolutely not an illegal check.Nice write up, however the hit was avoidable on Trouba end and it's been established that the onus is on the hitter there. Also completely disagree that the head wasn't that main point of contact (whatever you want to call it... Principal or whatever else). I mean there's a reason players are lashing out at DoPS. No one knows what gets supplemental discipline vs not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The shitty thing is Trouba has 3 options. 1) Light him up and risk the ever evolving definition of a major penalty and/or suspension 1.a) Light him up and hope the geometry works out and you don't get called. 2) Avoid the hit peeling off, but risk a trip or knee on knee 3) make a hard right and let him blow right by I hate the head shots, but the puck carrier has to have some responsibility for not having his head up. The defender is really in a tough spot in a play that is moving really freaking fast. All that being said and I'm being honest, if Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd be livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Nice write up, however the hit was avoidable on Trouba end and it's been established that the onus is on the hitter there. Also completely disagree that the head wasn't that main point of contact (whatever you want to call it... Principal or whatever else). I mean there's a reason players are lashing out at DoPS. No one knows what gets supplemental discipline vs not. Your argument was that it was illegal per the rulebook, which is incorrect for the reasons I laid out. There's no confusion. Just incorrect knowledge of the rulebook. And terminology matters. Main point of contact != principal point of contact, so it's not whatever you want to call it. It matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Your argument was that it was illegal per the rulebook, which is incorrect for the reasons I laid out. There's no confusion. Just incorrect knowledge of the rulebook. And terminology matters. Main point of contact != principal point of contact, so it's not whatever you want to call it. It matters.Agree to disagree just because I have no intention of wasting my morning when neither one of us is going to change their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 ... All that being said and I'm being honest, if Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd be livid. At least you're honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The shitty thing is Trouba has 3 options. 1) Light him up and risk the ever evolving definition of a major penalty and/or suspension 1.a) Light him up and hope the geometry works out and you don't get called. 2) Avoid the hit peeling off, but risk a trip or knee on knee 3) make a hard right and let him blow right by I hate the head shots, but the puck carrier has to have some responsibility for not having his head up. The defender is really in a tough spot in a play that is moving really freaking fast. All that being said and I'm being honest, if Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd be livid. I think we would all be livid, but not because it's dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4EverRangerFrank Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Maybe if we had more good, solid, open-ice checks delivered similar to this one we wouldn't be so focused on this one hit. The NHL has evolved into a skill game and less of a physical game - and for many good reasons - but taking hits out of the game would be a travesty IMO. Where has the good hip-check gone? You see one every once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 If Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd also be livid. If no one responded by feeding him his teeth. I'm also honest — that I love old school, physical hockey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 If Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd also be livid. If no one responded by feeding him his teeth. I'm also honest — that I love old school, physical hockey. I was actually impressed by Pageau, he stepped up as a welterweight fighting a light heavy weight. No better way to endear yourself to a new club, score a goal and fight in response to a hit. I'm actually surprised they call the instigator penalty on him ( I thought Lemieux was the only one who got that called) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 If Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd also be livid. If no one responded by feeding him his teeth. I'm also honest — that I love old school, physical hockey. Anisimov got drilled like this every game. He skated around with his head down, so I didnt have issue with the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Agree to disagree just because I have no intention of wasting my morning when neither one of us is going to change their minds. Is that the only reason? Lol...accepted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Completely illegal by NHL headshot rules, so makes sense that there's no supplemental discipline. And he left his feet too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 If Dal Colle hit Fox in a carbon copy play, I'd also be livid. If no one responded by feeding him his teeth. I'm also honest ? that I love old school, physical hockey. Smart physical play, unfortunate he was leaning and his head was clipped in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 And he left his feet too No he didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillyb Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 And he left his feet too :confused: No he didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The whole "leaving the feet" thing is ridiculously hard to argue in either direction for most hits.. Sure you have some clear launching violations, but for the majority of these hits simple physics is going to result in both feet being off the ice for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 The whole "leaving the feet" thing is ridiculously hard to argue in either direction for most hits.. Sure you have some clear launching violations, but for the majority of these hits simple physics is going to result in both feet being off the ice for a time. It also makes no sense. You can't leave your feet. Your skates leave the playing surface. You don't leave your feet. In my experience, most people just don't understand physics. Watch any body check. Not just the devastating ones. Skates leave the playing surface all the time as a result of momentum. The key is whether or not you propel yourself upward through a hit before you make contact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 No he didn't He did indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 It also makes no sense. You can't leave your feet. Your skates leave the playing surface. You don't leave your feet. In my experience, most people just don't understand physics. Watch any body check. Not just the devastating ones. Skates leave the playing surface all the time as a result of momentum. The key is whether or not you propel yourself upward through a hit before you make contact. That’s fair. And his feet don’t really come off the ice until the follow through. But the league is so inconsistent I wonder how much of a distinction they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now