Kevin Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 They don?t need to replace him immediately. They?re not winning a cup next year either. And guys do become available. It happens regularly. Do you honestly believe they should keep him and pay him roughly $7million per till he?s 34-36? He wants to take less, I?m all about it. Look, I like the guy. But extensions like that have killed them . This could be in that same veinWhy can't they compete for a cup next year? They just need a ticket to the dance which I think they'll certainly achieve next year... maybe even this year Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 No I’m not suggesting that I get where you’re coming from. He has a skill set not all too common given his frame. But that skill set and “what he does for you on the ice” still only produces about 25 and 50. Good numbers and contributions. I’m not arguing that But hardly irreplaceable. And it doesn’t have to come in the way of 1 player either. Once again, doesn’t have to be replaced immediately. My point is we aren’t replacing early-90’s Brett Hull. This isn’t a guy that teams have to specifically game plan on a nightly basis to stop. He’s a nice complimentary piece. And I like him. Just not at what he’ll likely get paid without leaving money on the table Don’t know how he’s become so revered as irreplaceable and essential Yes, if you view everyone in the vacuum of "how many points do you score?" Kreider, the player, is more than that. There are aspects of his game that are, in fact, irreplaceable. Namely his net-front presence, his combination of speed and size, and his playoff experience — all of which are going to become significantly more valuable as the team rounds the corner from rebuild to contention. I'd venture a guess that were they to move him, conversations about acquiring someone just like him would be all too common a year from now. The Devil you know... And you never answered my question I'm torn on it still. It's entirely dependent on both term and dollars for me. 7x7? I'd deal him, more so because of the latter. If it's, say, 7x5? I think I'd be OK with that, and I'd happily move on from someone like Buch to make room for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 Why can't they compete for a cup next year? They just need a ticket to the dance which I think they'll certainly achieve next year... maybe even this year Sent from my SM-G950U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Presuming growth from young players and a few key additions again this summer, I see no reason why this team isn't a playoff team as soon as next season, and given their construction, I also see no reason why they can't make noise. Cup contention? I dunno. I'd err on the side of caution there, but only because I don't want to get burned. It wouldn't shock me at all to see them go on a run as that tough-to-play-against, ultra-talented club with just the right pieces in the right places to pull off the upsets required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Yes, if you view everyone in the vacuum of "how many points do you score?" Kreider, the player, is more than that. There are aspects of his game that are, in fact, irreplaceable. Namely his net-front presence, his combination of speed and size, and his playoff experience — all of which are going to become significantly more valuable as the team rounds the corner from rebuild to contention. I'd venture a guess that were they to move him, conversations about acquiring someone just like him would be all too common a year from now. The Devil you know... I'm torn on it still. It's entirely dependent on both term and dollars for me. 7x7? I'd deal him, more so because of the latter. If it's, say, 7x5? I think I'd be OK with that, and I'd happily move on from someone like Buch to make room for him. I agree that there are other aspects to his game that have value But his production in actual terms and what they will cost are still far and away the most important things. I’d be ok with 7x5 too. And I’d gladly sacrifice Butch as I don’t think he’d be here long term anyway. There’s not going to be space for him anyway. But he can get 7 x7 on the market. Someone will pay him that I like Kreider too. But the Kreider lovers focus so much on what he does when he’s hot, they ignore his extreme streakiness, and the disappearing act that’s associated. He’s never put it together for more than stretches. He’s hot right now. 10 G and 8 A in last 18 games. He had 6 G and 11 total points in the previous 28 games. Hyper productive now Very little for a full third of the season prior His skill set still only manifests itself in what he produces We know what he produces and that much of it comes from nice hot streak As for the leadership and experience I get that. But this young group will gain its own experience and find its own leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I agree that there are other aspects to his game that have value But his production in actual terms and what they will cost are still far and away the most important things. I’d be ok with 7x5 too. And I’d gladly sacrifice Butch as I don’t think he’d be here long term anyway. There’s not going to be space for him anyway. But he can get 7 x7 on the market. Someone will pay him that I like Kreider too. But the Kreider lovers focus so much on what he does when he’s hot, they ignore his extreme streakiness, and the disappearing act that’s associated. He’s never put it together for more than stretches. He’s hot right now. 10 G and 8 A in last 18 games. He had 6 G and 11 total points in the previous 28 games. Hyper productive now Very little for a full third of the season prior His skill set still only manifests itself in what he produces We know what he produces and that much of it comes from nice hot streak As for the leadership and experience I get that. But this young group will gain its own experience and find its own leaders. This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak." Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak." Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast." And how critical all of that is going to be for when the team turns the corner, as soon as next season. I guarantee if they deal him, we're going to be having conversations about how much the Rangers should give up to acquire inferior versions of him like Alex Tuch, etc. to "beef up" for the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 And how critical all of that is going to be for when the team turns the corner, as soon as next season. I guarantee if they deal him, we're going to be having conversations about how much the Rangers should give up to acquire inferior versions of him like Alex Tuch, etc. to "beef up" for the playoffs. Exactly. Theres absolutely no one on the team that does what he does. You saw it last year when he was hurt, the team sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 i'd rather start grooming Howden to stand in front of the net and deflect shots than paying Kreider a regrettable amount for a regrettable amount of years. you give Kreider a long term contract, you're going to bite your elbows half way thru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Exactly. Theres absolutely no one on the team that does what he does. You saw it last year when he was hurt, the team sucked. that's ok. Blues won the cup last season and they didn't have Kreider on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 i'd rather start grooming Howden to stand in front of the net and deflect shots than paying Kreider a regrettable amount for a regrettable amount of years. you give Kreider a long term contract, you're going to bite your elbows half way thru If they win a Cup in the process, you can salt and pepper my elbow, because I'll happily chow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 If they win a Cup in the process, you can salt and pepper my elbow, because I'll happily chow down. rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 that's ok. Blues won the cup last season and they didn't have Kreider on their roster. Blues are one of the heaviest teams in the league. You're kinda making my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtyONE Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope Where do these arbitrary "windows" come from. What happens in 5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope That's impossible to say at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Blues are one of the heaviest teams in the league. You're kinda making my point. my point is that Kreider is not end all be all for the cup run. by the time the rangers might make a serious run he'd be like 34 years old and a complete burden. He gave us good years, there's plenty of other fish out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 That's impossible to say at this point. want to bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak." Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast." I’m not ignoring that he does other things I think he’s good around the net and the value that has I just don’t think that’s worth $50 million bucks till he’s 36 You specifically called him a power forward in an earlier post How many power forwards are great past 32/33? Not a ton. And the ones that have been, many are HOF’ers. Kreider isn’t in that class. Playing in those areas exacts a heavy toll. And that speed will go too eventually regardless of his conditioning But I’ll say again, I love him at 5 years and around 7 million. I think he’s got 3-4 nice seasons in him. I can live with 1-2 seasons of him as a diminished player who is paid above his value. What I can’t live with and what will come back to bite them is 3-4 seasons of him as a diminished player making way more than his actual value. You’re betting against history if you expect to get your money’s worth on him if he’s paid till age 36. Risky thing to do with a young group that will need to get paid itself in that time span. Yes I know the cap will go up and other contracts will come off the books But prices on guys will go up and others will be in the mix too We can debate this till we are blue in the face. But he’s almost certainly a goner in 6 weeks. Doubtful there’s an extension coming in that span. And I also think his agent is pushing him to go to market He’d be a fool not to They can touch base with him again in July. Then we’ll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope Wtf? Nonsense. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 rangers are at least 5 years away from a serious contention. anything sooner than that is just false hope Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 This is not a great example of "hot" and "cold." 11 points in 28 games is still good, for a "cold streak." Nobody is ignoring he has streaks. What people are ignoring is that he does more than put up points or "skate fast." 6 goals and 11 points is an 18 goal, 32 point pace over 82 That’s not good for a guy that’s looking for what he’s looking for in a new contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Wtf? Nonsense. Why is that? one of many reasons is that our young guys need experience. and we have more and more of these rookies coming in next and following years. we're still in the rebuild, despite what Michaletti says why nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Says who? Simon and his common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Wtf? Nonsense. Why is that? Says who? They’re not 5 years away They’re probably a playoff team next year and hopefully they’re in serious pursuit of a Cup in 2-3 seasons I put them in year 3 of a 4-5 year rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albatrosss Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 They’re not 5 years away They’re probably a playoff team next year and hopefully they’re in serious pursuit of a Cup in 2-3 seasons I put them in year 3 of a 4-5 year rebuild ambitious. you think they're in cup pursuit with first or second year defensemen? not a chance. im not even sure they're playoff contenders next year with Kreider and ADA probably gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 want to bet? I can't drink anymore of that shit. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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