Keirik Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 This isn't even just Torts. Jarmo is saying it, too. You don't really need to be in the weeds here with the diagnosis. Laine wants to post up and rip one timers all day long. He's completely one-dimensional and begs for a centerman that CBJ don't have. So Torts is saying Laine needs to create more on his own, and a guy that big with his skills should be able to. But with that, you have to go get pucks yourself sometimes. Laine doesn't want to. I know the classic narrative is Torts is the problem because of whatever people said about him 5 years ago, but that's not the case here. This is all on Laine, IMO (based on the info we have). I think with Torts it does go beyond Laine though. He's not thr first to come and go. Panarin, Laine, PLD, Bob, etc. And u have Jarmo not extending Torts as well....yet. But yes, as it's alreadt been said, it didn't take a genius to see Laine and Torts were going to be a bad mix. In this care, it probably is moreso Laine, but Torts being in his final yeah and not maximizing this trade kind of speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Those guys leaving wasn't a Torts problem. It's a market problem. They play in Columbus, Ohio. That is always, always, always going to pale in comparison to higher-profile markets with more desirable amenities/climates. Panarin went to NYC. Bob to South Beach. PLD to Winnipeg — who we all know he's not marrying. Gaby to LA. Duchene to Nashville. Voracek to Philly. Nash to NYC. If you look at the trend of guys leaving, it's clear as day what the problem is, and it ain't a demanding coach. It's living in fucking Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Those guys leaving wasn't a Torts problem. It's a market problem. They play in Columbus, Ohio. That is always, always, always going to pale in comparison to higher-profile markets with more desirable amenities/climates. Panarin went to NYC. Bob to South Beach. PLD to Winnipeg — who we all know he's not marrying. If you look at the trend of guys leaving, it's clear as day what the problem is, and it ain't a demanding coach. It's living in fucking Ohio. IIRC, Bob and Torts had plenty of differences. I’m not so sure that was a case of Ohio being bad. Columbus actually isn’t a bad city at all. Panarin I’ll give you. PLD was a problem with Torts. I think we can see that. Laine is a baby but he left Winnipeg and was benched like a game into his Columbus career. Let’s not make it seem like he was welcomed with a big warm Torts hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 Torts has problems like any other coach. Not everyone can deal with a demanding coach, but my point isn't that no one has ever had a problem with him. It's that he's not the fundamental problem. The market is. Not because it's a bad city, but because it's peanuts compared to the climate and amenities offered elsewhere. Few stick around in Winnipeg, Ottawa, and Carolina for similar reasons. Grass is always greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sod16 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Torts would be a good fit to coach a team like Carolina but a poor fit for many other teams. He'll get canned (not renewed) and land elsewhere for Torts Act 5 or whatever it is. Heck if Brian Burke can get hired at this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 The team that needs him is Buffalo. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Torts would be a good fit to coach a team like Carolina but a poor fit for many other teams. He'll get canned (not renewed) and land elsewhere for Torts Act 5 or whatever it is. Heck if Brian Burke can get hired at this point...He was a Jack Adams finalist last year, but sure let's continue the false narrative that he's just some re-tread getting jobs based on some expired reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 He was a Jack Adams finalist last year, but sure let's continue the false narrative that he's just some re-tread getting jobs based on some expired reputation. I’m not sure how much that really means. Of the last ten that won the Jack Adams, only 3 are still even current NHL coaches. I don’t think anyone is saying he’s a bad coach. Just his schtick wears and everyone has a shelf life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 The team that needs him is Buffalo. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk poor buffalo. They finally sign a FA and then they get Tortsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 For a year? They were never keeping him. He took the best payday. He wasn't in love with the market lol. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I’m not sure how much that really means. Of the last ten that won the Jack Adams, only 3 are still even current NHL coaches. I don’t think anyone is saying he’s a bad coach. Just his schtick wears and everyone has a shelf life.I mean I'm not surprised that someone who won an award 10 years ago doesn't have a job today. It would surprise me if someone who was nominated last year doesn't get an opportunity to coach next year. Considering Sutter just got a job LOL. There certainly are people in this thread acting like he's a bad coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 For a year? They were never keeping him. He took the best payday. He wasn't in love with the market lol. Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk all it takes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 There was an NHLPA Players Poll a few years ago (2016 or 2017 I think) where Tortorella was voted as both the coach that players least wanted to play for and most wanted to play for. He’s an incredibly polarizing individual who either works for you or doesn’t. It’s hard to deny his effectiveness at the NHL level. He knows how to squeeze the most out of some players and there are just some guys who don’t like being squeezed. I don’t entirely think that’s a Torts problem either because he’s adapted his approach over the years. I would love to have him as a coach. He’ll go to bat for any of his players as long as they’re doing the work and won’t let anyone criticize them, except for himself on the odd occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I mean I'm not surprised that someone who won an award 10 years ago doesn't have a job today. It would surprise me if someone who was nominated last year doesn't get an opportunity to coach next year. Considering Sutter just got a job LOL. There certainly are people in this thread acting like he's a bad coach. No but more recently a guy like Gallant won it and was fired a season and a half later so i don't take too much stock in that award specifically. It's just moreso of an award to say who's had the biggest surprise of a year half the time anyway. Hell, AV was a finalist last year and he's having a rough year this year. I don't think Torts is a bad coach one bit. Think he's one of the best American born coaches ever but I do see some flaws and a shelf life coming near the end. Hopefully he gets extended. The league is better with him in it than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 There was an NHLPA Players Poll a few years ago (2016 or 2017 I think) where Tortorella was voted as both the coach that players least wanted to play for and most wanted to play for. He’s an incredibly polarizing individual who either works for you or doesn’t. It’s hard to deny his effectiveness at the NHL level. He knows how to squeeze the most out of some players and there are just some guys who don’t like being squeezed. I don’t entirely think that’s a Torts problem either because he’s adapted his approach over the years. I would love to have him as a coach. He’ll go to bat for any of his players as long as they’re doing the work and won’t let anyone criticize them, except for himself on the odd occasion. And that's what im saying. I'm not saying he's the end all be all reason some players come and go but he's a reason. I guess you can say that for every coach techically but some coaches perk up a player's radar more than others. Torts is the more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I think people are confusing Safe is Death Torts with modern-day Torts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 And that's what im saying. I'm not saying he's the end all be all reason some players come and go but he's a reason. I guess you can say that for every coach techically but some coaches perk up a player's radar more than others. Torts is the more. I think what hurts Torts the most is his reputation. Some players might just be afraid of the idea of playing under a "hard-ass" when that isn't a wholly accurate description of him. When it comes to Babcock versus Tortorella I'd take Tortorella any day because, despite Babcock's record, Tortorella has shown to be the more compassionate and understanding of the two. His time in Columbus has done quite a bit in rehabbing his image because he's started to understand the nuances of interpersonal relationships with players. It's crazy that it took nearly two decades of coaching experience to get there, but I'd argue it's better to make that discovery than not. I wish he would've had more patience with players like Avery and Gaborik back in the day, although his criticisms of them were justified to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I think people are confusing Safe is Death Torts with modern-day Torts. I don't know. I'd say most of us here watch enough current hockey to give an educated opinion. We are talking about tjr guy that benched Laine like 4 periods into his Columbus career. He's evolved for sure but he still has some flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I don't know. I'd say most of us here watch enough current hockey to give an educated opinion. We are talking about tjr guy that benched Laine like 4 periods into his Columbus career. He's evolved for sure but he still has some flaws. Players liked safe is death torts. They all hate modern Torts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew a Penalty Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Players liked safe is death torts. They all hate modern Torts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I don't know. I'd say most of us here watch enough current hockey to give an educated opinion. We are talking about tjr guy that benched Laine like 4 periods into his Columbus career. He's evolved for sure but he still has some flaws.But you're immediately assuming he was wrong to bench Laine. Since when did players become immune to riding the pine? That's really the only way you can get your point across with athletes, playing time. By the time he got benched, it's completely plausible that Torts had a dozen conversations with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirik Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 But you're immediately assuming he was wrong to bench Laine. Since when did players become immune to riding the pine? That's really the only way you can get your point across with athletes, playing time. By the time he got benched, it's completely plausible that Torts had a dozen conversations with him. Well anything is possible of course. But it was like his 3rd or 4th game on the team, he didn’t specifically ask to be there, and Torts is the older wiser guy. Some kid gloves probably would go a longer way for a 22 year old kid. I’m sure Laine was 100% wrong. Think he mouthed off. Douche move but still a kid though that just went through a tough time. Not about being immune. Its just about reading a moment. He had come off a 2 goal and 1 goal game after his 3rd game as a BJ. Might have actually started to come into his own. Then he had a lapse. Meh. Is that really the time to flex muscle? 3 goals in first 4 games as a BJ. Benched. 4 goals the next 25. Atta boy Tortsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Well anything is possible of course. But it was like his 3rd or 4th game on the team, he didn’t specifically ask to be there, and Torts is the older wiser guy. Some kid gloves probably would go a longer way for a 22 year old kid. I’m sure Laine was 100% wrong. Think he mouthed off. Douche move but still a kid though that just went through a tough time. Not about being immune. Its just about reading a moment. He had come off a 2 goal and 1 goal game after his 3rd game as a BJ. Might have actually started to come into his own. Then he had a lapse. Meh. Is that really the time to flex muscle? 3 goals in first 4 games as a BJ. Benched. 4 goals the next 25. Atta boy Tortsy!He had 10 points in his first 10 games after coming over. I don't know why you're trying to make the benching some type of tipping point. He's also 23 and has been in the league for 5 years and force the trade off a team pretty much for the same reason he's struggling right now. He didn't see eye to eye with his last team on effort level either. I just think the Torts narrative is tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Lothbrok Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 When he was rumored to be on the outs from Winnipeg, I saw people being willing to send Kakko the other way. Anybody still feel that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 When he was rumored to be on the outs from Winnipeg, I saw people being willing to send Kakko the other way. Anybody still feel that way? It's tough. although he's another RH shooter for the PP, he's also a shooter, so he wouldnt be on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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