Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: We Need Another Letter

  1. #1
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68

    We Need Another Letter

    To follow-up that brilliant proactive forthcoming heartfelt letter to the Blueshirt Faithful (and the rest of the NHL). It would communicate something like...

    Hey again We realize we telegraphed our moves and publicly gave up on the current team and many of the players. It might have been a little premature in a number of ways. How you ask? Maybe we will keep it to ourselves until after the trade deadline, this time. But remember we did it to show how much we care about you. Yeah you, our absurdly loyal corporate schmoozers.

    See, we really don't know exactly what we are doing when it comes to this 'seller' thing. Please be patient with us, we will make mistakes. This isn't like stocking the bar at the corporate suite, this is asset mgmt that needs shrewd managing.

    For instance, we now realize that the Isles, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes and some of our others competitors kinda suck, still. No matter how bad we've been since xmas we are in the thick of it with over 30 games to go. To compound our misjudgement, we announced to the world that we are promising you fans a major rebuid, which now means every competitor is trying to rape us of our assets, given our lack of leverage or flexibilty. It also adds to the flooding of the market besides giving ourselves a lot more supply to deal.

    In retrospect, we should have just asked you to be patient and that we plan no rise in ticket prices next year. We should have let it be known that we are interested in improving the club now and for the future and that we will be talking to all teams this month. That we are hard at work, seriously assessing the team, situation and all possible options. We will talk to you again, after the deadline.

    Our actions and execution will do the talking.

    Sincerely,
    the guys who are going to deliver younger, faster, smarter, more character and more talent.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 02-14-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bantam Division paddynyc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bronx, New York
    Posts
    2,425
    Rep Power
    14
    ^ Hahahahaha.... Good one Giacomin.
    Sincerely,
    the guys
    Sather & Sather !!!!
    "Meet me later in the gymnasium, next to the dumbbells... you'll know me, I got a hat on."
    Curly

  3. #3
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Ha

    Sather & Sather PC

  4. #4
    Senior Member Squirt Division Sod16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    305
    Rep Power
    11
    I couldn't agree more. The telegraphed aspect of this was unprecedented. It hurt their bargaining position and put the team in more turmoil than it was already in. I'm not opposed to some moves, but this team is not as bad as some believe. They could regain some composure and limp to a playoff spot. If Krieder and Shattenkirk are back in March and two of the four young defensemen now in the lineup prove NHL worthy, the team could make some noise (although that is questionable sans 61 and 40).

    I have no delusions about the likelihood of a major playoff run, but what was wrong with keeping your mouths shut and waiting and assessing the situation a week before the deadline?

    The whole Sather era has been dubious in terms of personnel moves. The extended playoff run since 2006 is the result of the late drafting of #30, which was an off the cuff momentary decision by Don Maloney that had nothing to do with Slats, and the Bob Gainey psychotic episode known as the Gomez trade, where Slats openly acknowledges that he had never seen McD play before the trade.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,946
    Rep Power
    62
    A week before the deadline? I seriously doubt the letter changes anything. You think a GM picks up the phone and works out a trade deadline deal in a week? Letter or no letter, Gorton has been on the phone letting all the other GM's know who is available.

  6. #6
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    10,484
    Rep Power
    95
    I’m not sure why anyone would have a problem with the letter. Do you know how many other fan bases wish their management did the same?

    The idea that it hurt their leverage is nonsense. When you put a sign outside your house that says it’s for sale, it doesn’t make it any less valuable.
    GORTON 2020

  7. #7
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post

    The idea that it hurt their leverage is nonsense. When you put a sign outside your house that says it’s for sale, it doesn’t make it any less valuable.
    Yep

    And when it sits for 30 to 60 days it becomes even less valuable.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    A week before the deadline? I seriously doubt the letter changes anything. You think a GM picks up the phone and works out a trade deadline deal in a week? Letter or no letter, Gorton has been on the phone letting all the other GM's know who is available.
    Gorton should very well have been on the phone to every GM letting them know there is interest in Nash, Grabs, McD, Zuc, Holden, Miller, among others. Every single GM. Then he tells them he may even hold on to any of them, but this year he is definitely open to fair offers such as ......

    King, 31, so much of this is nuance, we could have a much more interesting discussion about it over a few beers and still not cover all the ways we could be a little more shrewd. If you think it is all happenstance and any hockey exec can basically get the same job done, then sure the letter does not matter.

    Unfortunately, I'm of the belief that some mystery, some unknowns, some savy negotiating has to exist so that there is risk and urgency for all sides. In a highly competitive environment with limited fixed assets in a semi-auction like dynamic setting it behoves one to be opportunistic and look for every chance to gain an edge for your team.

    BTW, just because you let every GM know you are open to trading many of our players, does not mean we will. The letter boxed us in more than any one-to-one private phone call.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 02-14-2018 at 12:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Also I'm all for a letter, or two. And the occasional press conference. Just not that letter with that timing. By all means, this mgmt should be addressing the fan base. Particularly, minutes after the deadline.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    This mgmt and fan base need look no further than the way they fucked up the Talbot trade (admitted on tape, I will not go thru it again) losing one, maybe two better offers due to mismanagement. Call it some bad decisions. Include Hags and Stralman/Boyle as additional in season and off season mgmt debacles.

    Look at Chirelli or other knuckleheads then compare it to the job Yzerman and others are doing for their teams. I don't need mgmt stroking me, they can say plenty by announcing a ticket price freeze. And I don't go to games anymore, so it is not personal.

    We need them to find this team a dynamic young star and some first rounders to have a shot a couple of other high upside prospects. Deliver. Don't send us a letter like that almost a month before the deadline.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division
    Rangers4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    711
    Rep Power
    22
    The market will dictate, letter or no letter.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,946
    Rep Power
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    Gorton should very well have been on the phone to every GM letting them know there is interest in Nash, Grabs, McD, Zuc, Holden, Miller, among others. Every single GM. Then he tells them he may even hold on to any of them, but this year he is definitely open to fair offers such as ......

    King, 31, so much of this is nuance, we could have a much more interesting discussion about it over a few beers and still not cover all the ways we could be a little more shrewd. If you think it is all happenstance and any hockey exec can basically get the same job done, then sure the letter does not matter.

    Unfortunately, I'm of the belief that some mystery, some unknowns, some savy negotiating has to exist so that there is risk and urgency for all sides. In a highly competitive environment with limited fixed assets in a semi-auction like dynamic setting it behoves one to be opportunistic and look for every chance to gain an edge for your team.

    BTW, just because you let every GM know you are open to trading many of our players, does not mean we will. The letter boxed us in more than any one-to-one private phone call.
    Unless you have a live feed with audio from Gorton's office, there is a ton of mystery.

  13. #13
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,359
    Rep Power
    127
    It's doubtful Gorton and Sather wrote the letter before telling other owners that they were going to be sellers - they've probably been having conversations on Nash, Grabner, Mac, whoever for a long, long time. An admission in the letter has absolutely 0 impact on trade value and, in all honesty, being a seller or not probably doesn't either.
    Last edited by Future; 02-14-2018 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Bantam Division
    Long live the King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,946
    Rep Power
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    This mgmt and fan base need look no further than the way they fucked up the Talbot trade (admitted on tape, I will not go thru it again) losing one, maybe two better offers due to mismanagement. Call it some bad decisions. Include Hags and Stralman/Boyle as additional in season and off season mgmt debacles.

    Look at Chirelli or other knuckleheads then compare it to the job Yzerman and others are doing for their teams. I don't need mgmt stroking me, they can say plenty by announcing a ticket price freeze. And I don't go to games anymore, so it is not personal.

    We need them to find this team a dynamic young star and some first rounders to have a shot a couple of other high upside prospects. Deliver. Don't send us a letter like that almost a month before the deadline.

    Is this any different than all the arguments that have been had ad nausem recently? He inherited a team that had just drafted Stamkos and Hedman #1 and #2 in back to back years. Makes it a lot easier for a GM to build a team around those two players. (and he still hasn't found the magic combo after 8 years)

  15. #15
    Moderator Junior Division
    Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    6,359
    Rep Power
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Is this any different than all the arguments that have been had ad nausem recently? He inherited a team that had just drafted Stamkos and Hedman #1 and #2 in back to back years. Makes it a lot easier for a GM to build a team around those two players. (and he still hasn't found the magic combo after 8 years)
    Yea, Yzerman hasn't done shit lol

  16. #16
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Is this any different than all the arguments that have been had ad nausem recently? He inherited a team that had just drafted Stamkos and Hedman #1 and #2 in back to back years. Makes it a lot easier for a GM to build a team around those two players. (and he still hasn't found the magic combo after 8 years)
    Yes, different argument. We are talking about making deals and hopefully favorable deals. We are talking about a letter. We need to view this as a going forward exercise that can not be determined based on who won recent Cups and if they have generational players and whether it was luck, years of tanking or whatever.

    We need to proceed with what positions this club for the best future.

    Specifically, I mention the letter. At the very least it should be like the hippocratic oath. Do no harm.

    Maybe it does no harm. Maybe mkt value is determined and it is already in the cards what the return will be. But does it really help?

    If we do a risk/reward eval, what is really gained by that letter? For cripes sakes couldn't they have at least waited till the first big trade? Couldn't they address the fan base a couple of weeks later? Right now I need our top executives and scouts focused on hockey and personnel and not PR and managing the fanbase. Address us when you have something to report, otherwise you are reinforcing that talk is cheap.
    Last edited by Giacomin; 02-14-2018 at 01:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    10,484
    Rep Power
    95
    The letter was to fans, basically saying, hey we might suck but we're trying to fix it -- please continue to buy season tickets.

    It doesn't hurt their cause. The day before the letter there were 26 scouts in the building. That's basically the whole league. I don't know if you've seen scouts at games but they generally all sit together. They'd be well aware that there was some competition, regardless of a letter to the fans.

    I've yet to see a concise reason as to why this letter hurts their chances.
    GORTON 2020

  18. #18
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    The letter was to fans, basically saying, hey we might suck but we're trying to fix it -- please continue to buy season tickets.

    It doesn't hurt their cause. The day before the letter there were 26 scouts in the building. That's basically the whole league. I don't know if you've seen scouts at games but they generally all sit together. They'd be well aware that there was some competition, regardless of a letter to the fans.

    I've yet to see a concise reason as to why this letter hurts their chances.
    I don't see how it helps, they can say all that and more at the deadline and also discuss any new acquisitions.

    Well I was imagining we'd discuss over beers cause there is tons of nuance, but if you want a concise answer...

    - we can't play the, "we just won 3 in a row, we are thinking of keeping Nash if all you can do is an iffy prospect and pick".
    - or why would we trade McD or Zuc for so little, we plan to compete next year
    - or that we added certainty that there is more supply on the mkt, for those citing supply/demand and "what mkt will bare" arguments.

    now the response would be... "comeon we saw your letter, you set the table with your fans, your dumping your UFAs and then some."

  19. #19
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    10,484
    Rep Power
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
    I don't see how it helps, they can say all that and more at the deadline and also discuss any new acquisitions.

    Well I was imagining we'd discuss over beers cause there is tons of nuance, but if you want a concise answer...

    - we can't play the, "we just won 3 in a row, we are thinking of keeping Nash if all you can do is an iffy prospect and pick".
    - or why would we trade McD or Zuc for so little, we plan to compete next year
    - or that we added certainty that there is more supply on the mkt, for those citing supply/demand and "what mkt will bare" arguments.

    now the response would be... "comeon we saw your letter, you set the table with your fans, your dumping your UFAs and then some."
    They absolutely don't have to trade Zucc and McD. In fact, I'd be shocked if they moved either playoff before the deadline. Both players have term. Both players can be back next year. And I think they're planning on being "competitive" next year unless they get an offer they can't refuse for their key players. If those players get moved, it'll likely be at this summer's draft.

    GM: "Hey we saw your letter. We'll give you peanuts for Mcdonaugh."
    Gorton: "No thanks." Click.

    or that we added certainty that there is more supply on the mkt, for those citing supply/demand and "what mkt will bare" arguments.
    If a GM called Gorton he'd find out immediately what's on the market. The GMs are not learning of this fire sale through a letter to the fans. They're just not.

    we can't play the, "we just won 3 in a row, we are thinking of keeping Nash if all you can do is an iffy prospect and pick".
    Nash is the top rental player available. Letter or no letter, that's a fact. It doesn't matter how many players are on the market. Nash is the best. Period. Their leverage is:

    Gorton: "You want Nash? Okay, Nashville, Tampa, Dallas, Toronto, and Winnipeg also want him. What are you going to give me that they aren't?"
    GORTON 2020

  20. #20
    Senior Member Midget Division
    Giacomin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,643
    Rep Power
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirtyONE View Post
    They absolutely don't have to trade Zucc and McD. In fact, I'd be shocked if they moved either playoff before the deadline. Both players have term. Both players can be back next year. And I think they're planning on being "competitive" next year unless they get an offer they can't refuse for their key players. If those players get moved, it'll likely be at this summer's draft.
    Honestly, McD is the secret to the rebuild. We can't afford his next contract given his age/injury risk and he is (at the moment) not a 1 year piece. Therefore it is this trade deadline that will return us the greatest value for him. When his value is highest (2 playoff runs) gives us the best opportunity to bring in a kid with true top-end potential.

    So, to play fast and loose with a letter that could impact the way every team thinks about any available asset, particularly McD, does not seem prudent. Too much is riding on this to not get every edge or reveal any unnecessary piece of info.

    GM: "Hey we saw your letter. We'll give you peanuts for Mcdonaugh."
    Gorton: "No thanks." Click.
    This example doesn't ring true and lacks all nuance. We are talking degrees of return anyway. "How much can we hold out for" and many other complicated strategies and tactics mgmt and other GMs will employ.

    If a GM called Gorton he'd find out immediately what's on the market. The GMs are not learning of this fire sale through a letter to the fans. They're just not.
    Not saying they are, but they are learning more about our motivations and committments. Plus Gorton's convos are person-to-person not person-to-everybody. If other GMs want to learn if McD is 'really' on the table, let them call. Why give out free info, unless it is certain to help?
    Gorton: "You want Nash? Okay, Nashville, Tampa, Dallas, Toronto, and Winnipeg also want him. What are you going to give me that they aren't?"
    Love this. Good response. Notice nothing about the letter helped that message.

    One thing I should mention. I wrote the OP quickly to both vent and entertain, hopefully with a bit of humor. Just for fun. Stream of consciousness shit, not something too serious. Paddy got a laugh and that is most satifying post I could want!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •