Hate on Bettman all you want...he's largely succeeded with that strategy.
Minnesota to Dallas? Win As painful as it was at the time to lose the North Stars, eventually Dallas has actually supported the Stars
Expanding to Miami? Win, until they moved to Sunrise. I agree 100%!!! Huizenga, while it seemed fair, should've left the Panthers in Miami since it makes logical sense to keep NHL teams in major cities like Montreal, Toronto, NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, and Detroit, not nearby the Everglades and I also agree Sunrise is a poor location to place any professional sports team. Huizenga was a great owner but the Panthers should've stayed in Miami. Tampa Bay Lightning is successful not just because or their recent Stanley Cup champions, but a major part of that is Amalie Arena, located in Tampa.
Expanding to Anaheim? WinAgree
Moving Quebec to Denver? Win Similar to how MN lost the North Stars, all the Nordiques needed was a new arena, but the way Marcel Aubut tried to bring a third blue chip center in Lindros, drafted him, then forced to trade him for Forsberg, Ricci, Simon and company and had to leave QUE for COL just to win not one but two cups with Patrick Roy, it's a win for COL, but a major loss for QUE and I hope QUE gets their hockey hockey team back ASAP!
Moving Winnipeg to Phoenix? Win, until they left Phoenix for Glendale. This has become a bigger and bigger loser year over year. It's the biggest loss for the NHL overall!!! Moving the team to Quebec will help that franchise. If not, the Coyotes will shrivel in the desert!
Moving Hartford to Carolina? Middling, I'd probably lean win.It's more of a loss for these reasons: it's not in the biggest city in NC (Charlotte), there's little to no fan support for the Hurricanes and thus there's way more support for the Panthers, the Hornets, and even college basketball and football over professional hockey, Raleigh isn't a traditional hockey market, and while they have a Stanley Cup victory, mind you hockey was in it's nadir in the 2000s with the cancelled season in 2004-05 plus hockey in general was declining so I'm not surprised that the typical NC sports fan doesn't remember when the Hurricanes won. They'll probably remember when Duke or UNC won the NCAA national championship over the Hurricanes lone championship. In general, hockey just doesn't have strong support just ask Atlanta!
Expanding to Nashville? Win Okay, but I'd like to see a team in Milwaukee over Nashville, my opinion
Expanding to Atlanta? Outright loss. Losing two NHL franchises is pitiful and I don't see any hope that ATL will get a third in a long time.
Expanding to Minnesota? Win Agree
Expanding to Columbus? Win I'm willing to giving CBJ a chance, even though Columbus is more of a college town and Ohio State is more popular than the Blue Jackets
Moving Atlanta to Winnipeg? Win, for now. It's a win for not just Winnipeg, but for Manitoba and Canada as well and further proof that having 6 million people in a market doesn't make it a strong hockey market!
Expanding to Vegas? Big win.
Time will tell whether the VGK survives in Vegas, but the VGK deserves a chance, although I'm no fan of keeping a sports team in Vegas due to gambling interests and unsavory influences.
It's pretty safe to say that the biggest mistakes the NHL has made over the last 20 years with regard to team placement were "try Atlanta again" and "let urban sprawl cities commute away from downtown to games"
Bluntly, from a business perspective, why are you putting a team in Quebec City, or Hamilton, or Halifax? You've got a bunch of people that at this juncture have rooted for Montreal or Toronto, or potentially even Ottawa for nearly 25 years - so for success, fan loyalty has to change. Further, you've got to generate 30% additional revenue per ticket to match USD, and each of them is immediately the smallest market in the NHL. It's a massive risk.
I agree, Atlanta was overall a major failure for both the Flames and the Thrashers. Both teams made the playoffs, but could never generate any fanfare the way the Nordiques, the Jets, and the Whalers did due to geography as well as maybe demographics. Metro Atlanta may be much bigger in population than Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford, but it doesn't make it a strong hockey market. With the exception of CA, TX, and FL, outside of those states, hockey just isn't a strong enough sport than football, baseball, or basketball outside of CA, TX, and FL.
There's enough expats from the Northeast, the Midwest, and even in Canada to support the Kings, the Ducks, the Sharks, the Stars, the Panthers, and the Lightning, and you have strong fan bases for those teams as opposed to the Coyotes, the Thrashers, and the Hurricanes. Winnipeg deserved to get the Jets back because they have a new arena plus fans who are willing to support the Jets through thick and thin, The same can happen to Quebec if Buttman can get his head out the owners' asses and understand that you have to place hockey teams in strong markets, not bigger markets like Phoenix and Atlanta which doesn't have a strong fan base for hockey.
The only 90's expansion team I'm willing to helping is the Florida Panthers. They're a victim or location, not fan support, especially when the Panthers haven't even been competitive until the past couple of seasons, thanks to Coach Q. Only way to save the Panthers is to renovate the FTX Arena and make it suitable for hockey and move the team to Miami. I can understand moving the Dolphins from the Orange Bowl to Miami Gardens due to infrastructure, but moving the Panthers from Miami to Sunrise was a huge mistake on late owner Huizenga's part, even though it seemed fair to move the Panthers to Broward to centralize the fan base. Miami is too lucrative of a city and a market to not have a professional sports team as Miami currently has four and a fifth pro sports team would help Miami and the NHL out.
On the other side, you've got a 7 million person metro area with literally no hockey representation in Houston (and a history of supporting the Aeros, and an arena, and desire for a team) and a near 20% population growth since 2010, you've got a similar dean Atlanta (not that they should try that one again), you've got 4 million people in Seattle with no NBA and an upcoming NHL team where there's a 15% growth since 2010. You've also got markets like San Antonio, Portland, Orlando, Charlotte, and Austin, all of which are under-served by pro sports and growing at insane clips (15%+ growth since 2010 and over 2 million people in the market). Almost all of these markets have a history of supporting at least a local minor league team (Rampage, Winterhawks, Solar Bears, Checkers, Stars), and almost all of which have an NHL quality arena ready.
If there was enough space to place a hockey team since with Seattle, there's 32 NHL teams, I'd give Houston and NHL team. Only problem is that with the mathematics, plus during playoff time, where eight teams from each conference compete with one another and the other half stays at home, having 32 NHL teams is perfect because it balances all those teams when it comes to the playoffs.
Orlando will never get an NHL due to being too close to Tampa Bay, likewise San Antonio, while not close to Houston, is close enough and ditto to Dallas, Portland had a better chance of getting a baseball team than a hockey team, and Austin, as big as it is, is just not a strong pro sports town and more of a college town, similar to Columbus.
I get the nostagia of QC and the desire of Hamilton and Halifax and Saskatoon and Regina, but it's just not a logical thing to do.
Ask the hockey fans in Winnipeg. If Winnipeg can get a hockey team back in Manitoba, then Quebec fans are able to attract hockey back to Quebec City and even ditto for Hartford!!!
Article: Who's Keeping the NHL Out of Quebec City
in Hockey Around the Globe
Posted
I agree, Atlanta was overall a major failure for both the Flames and the Thrashers. Both teams made the playoffs, but could never generate any fanfare the way the Nordiques, the Jets, and the Whalers did due to geography as well as maybe demographics. Metro Atlanta may be much bigger in population than Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford, but it doesn't make it a strong hockey market. With the exception of CA, TX, and FL, outside of those states, hockey just isn't a strong enough sport than football, baseball, or basketball outside of CA, TX, and FL.
There's enough expats from the Northeast, the Midwest, and even in Canada to support the Kings, the Ducks, the Sharks, the Stars, the Panthers, and the Lightning, and you have strong fan bases for those teams as opposed to the Coyotes, the Thrashers, and the Hurricanes. Winnipeg deserved to get the Jets back because they have a new arena plus fans who are willing to support the Jets through thick and thin, The same can happen to Quebec if Buttman can get his head out the owners' asses and understand that you have to place hockey teams in strong markets, not bigger markets like Phoenix and Atlanta which doesn't have a strong fan base for hockey.
The only 90's expansion team I'm willing to helping is the Florida Panthers. They're a victim or location, not fan support, especially when the Panthers haven't even been competitive until the past couple of seasons, thanks to Coach Q. Only way to save the Panthers is to renovate the FTX Arena and make it suitable for hockey and move the team to Miami. I can understand moving the Dolphins from the Orange Bowl to Miami Gardens due to infrastructure, but moving the Panthers from Miami to Sunrise was a huge mistake on late owner Huizenga's part, even though it seemed fair to move the Panthers to Broward to centralize the fan base. Miami is too lucrative of a city and a market to not have a professional sports team as Miami currently has four and a fifth pro sports team would help Miami and the NHL out.
If there was enough space to place a hockey team since with Seattle, there's 32 NHL teams, I'd give Houston and NHL team. Only problem is that with the mathematics, plus during playoff time, where eight teams from each conference compete with one another and the other half stays at home, having 32 NHL teams is perfect because it balances all those teams when it comes to the playoffs.
Orlando will never get an NHL due to being too close to Tampa Bay, likewise San Antonio, while not close to Houston, is close enough and ditto to Dallas, Portland had a better chance of getting a baseball team than a hockey team, and Austin, as big as it is, is just not a strong pro sports town and more of a college town, similar to Columbus.
Ask the hockey fans in Winnipeg. If Winnipeg can get a hockey team back in Manitoba, then Quebec fans are able to attract hockey back to Quebec City and even ditto for Hartford!!!