Capt

He's not good.  It was always a risk when you're picking up back up goalies from the scrap heap.

How does Kane make this a contending team?  They cannot defend and they don't compete for 60 minutes

44 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

2 pts in his last 6 games, but your point remains. He needs to produce a lot more than that. I don’t agree he needs to be traded over a 6 game stretch though. He will be fine.

You're fine and mine are a totally different thing.  This is not the same player they had the first two years.  Last year he wasn't the same either.  People will say look at his points but anyone who watches this team and is honest knows he's not been the same player.  People even now try to say his playoffs were ok too because well look at the points.  This is a bad team.  Everything people complain about with this team is emphasized in Panarin's game.  

The Rangers need structure, compete, and will.  This team is not going to score it's way to a cup.  So they better get their shit together as a system.  They better learn to defend.  It's an effort to score goals so it might behoove them to make team's earn them too.  

It's really not about whether Panarin is a great player or not.  It's whether he's a fit to what the Rangers need. 

42 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

2 pts in his last 6 games, but your point remains. He needs to produce a lot more than that. I don’t agree he needs to be traded over a 6 game stretch though. He will be fine.

I din't realize he got an assist last night.  Thank god for the meaningless 2nd assist or he'd have no points in the last 7.  

Panarin 2 goals in his last 16 games.  1 point in his last 7 games, an assist.  Have all the conversations you like about a league minimum backup goalie.  The $11.5M man. is failing this team just like he did in the playoffs.  This team needs a facelift and it's obvious where the money is in order to do that facelift.

I'm actually ok with Chytil and kakko as I think both are good players who if given some power play time would put respectable numbers.  They are noticeable every game and they have tangible strengths to their game that are easily identified.  Laff is another story.  I don't see anything that resembles anything special.  Right now you hope his career is as good as Goodrow.  There is nothing I feel he does above average and there seems to be no growth.  I honestly believe kakko is going to be stud in time.  Chytil for the money and as a third line center is plenty productive and has the ability to be more.  Staying healthy for him is the key.  He's already a good player at this stage and a productive one.  Every time he sees to get into a grove he gets hurt though.  That needs to stop.    

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I think it's more because some people don't understand that there is a difference between a bad hockey player, and a player playing some bad hockey.

I guess but people on here tend not to allow for either conversation when it comes to a guy like Fox.  Fox was playing bad hockey for him.  Points aside.  Panarin, Mika, Kreider, and Trouba have all struggled this year.  That doesn't make them bad players but ignoring that reality isn't a logical take either.  The constant drum beat on this forum anyway is that the Rangers problems are the bottom 6.  The bottom 6 is a problem but why? It's a problem because it was built to be a problem.  This team is constructed as a top heavy team.  There is big money throughout paid to stars.  That left kids and misfits to fill out the bottom 6.  The stars are not performing.  They get their points on the power play but they are getting worked 5 on 5.  The problem with this team is the top 6, structure and desire.  Intensity is not Panarin, Kreider, Mika, Fox's strong suit.  None of them are going to mixed up for guys skating through a brick wall to win a game.  They are all passive players.  Highly skilled but extremely passive.  The only big money leader on this team that plays with emotion and grit is Trouba.  Yet he does so without hockey sense in a lot of ways.  This team is a reflection of their stars, like any team really.  They are skilled but they are unwilling/unable to out work or out will anybody.  Going to the net, playing tough defense, getting second chances, forechecking/backchecking, protecting their net, etc are all things that don't require elite skill yet they are all things this team does not do.  You cannot rely on your bottom 6 to be your only source of these things.  It has to be a complete team effort.  Those deficiencies are a direct reflection of the leaders on this team.  Some of them have to go.  It's just a bad mix

I find it hard to fathom how a team with no cap space who stinks has basically all their players producing to their cap hits.  Something is off

Passionless is the best adjective to me.  Dirty goals don't go into slumps.  Going to the net and feasting on rebounds may not be pretty but all they require is the will to do so.  The Rangers can look so damn good when things are clicking but when they aren't they look disinterested.  Too much skill on this team and not enough will.  It's not a new problem, it's one they have chose to ignore for the most part.

On 11/16/2022 at 6:37 AM, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

Just because people didn't agree with your take on Panarin doesn't mean you can't talk negatively about the Rangers here. At times it feels like it's the only thing we're doing. The team have started bad, that's why we have one thread about potentially firing the coach, one about getting rid of Reaves because we need the cap, one about trading Panarin(lol) and one thread about how the bottom 6 sucks. We've talked about how the team needs more from Shesterkin, Fox, Trouba, Mika (espeically 5v5) and Kreider. We've talked about how the 3rd pair of Jones - Schneider has not been good enough.

 

If all you want to do is bash on the players there's probably better places to go(twitter), but if you want honest and in-depth discussions and conversations about the Rangers, you've come to the right place!

I think the response was to the fact that people rightly were calling Fox's game into question, being it's a Rangers forum, at the time.  Since than he's picked his game up and now there are those who want to make believe like he didn't;t have struggles.  It's ok to talk about negatives here and not be the enemy of the Rangers or their fans.  Being the Rangers best player makes him even more open to criticism not less.  When he struggles those struggles become more obvious because of how important he is to the team's success

Oh no is this a Panarin thread?

Didn't see that.  Thank you

Just read that Panarin is in Russia.  any concern that he gets stuck there?  He doesn't have a great  relationship with Putin.  I believe Kaprisov is having trouble leaving.  With all that happened two years ago and Panarin reportedly taking leave to address issues in Russia then is it not something to worry about.  Clearly Putin is even more psychotic now and has zero to lose.  Seems to me Panarin should get out of there as soon as possible.

It's equally tiring to read the praises in December only to watch him cower come playoff time.  

I think if they trade them it should be for players who are going to be here longer than a couple of months.  

Kucherov is nothing like Panarin.  He had yrs of quality playoff performances before that yr.  Does nobody remember him when the Rangers were playing in the ECF?

Kucherov also has a nasty cheap streak in him.  He's a dirty player, kind of like Malkin.  I wish Panarin would show some of that

13 hours ago, Pete said:

It's not even points, for me.

 

Is he getting the puck to the middle? (Not his body, the puck)

Is he driving the play or giving the puck up as soon as pressured?

Is he turning it over or making smart plays? If the plays not there, it's not there.

 

That's what I'm looking for.

 

100%, pts. aren't everything . Every one of those questions elicits  negative response.  

1 hour ago, Pete said:

He can't, he spent his entire Keyboard Cap on other keys that he needs. It was worth it at the time, but man now that he needs more keys... Fuck an A. 

No I'm just used to doing these things with crayons not computers.

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

So, this whole thing really is just a "I don't like the player" thing  

 

Ok. Move along. You dragged this whole thing out and what we have all been saying about your opinion  (which you denied) was actually true. You just don't like the player. It's not his salary. It's not his production. It's you not liking his make up. I think you'd have gotten more backing than you think,  if you just came out and said this from the beginning. But you had to drag his cap hit and production into it. 

 

This was ridiculous man. All this to get here. 

Obviously I don't like the player.  The reasons I don't like him is the reason why I believe he's overpaid &  detriment to the team.  I don't believe in him being the guy to lead the team to win the toughest trophy in sports.  I also believe  that it's possible to trde his contract without getting the total  $11.5M back.  Money is coming back but  savings is possible.  If his contract is right then other's will be lining up to make it work.  I believe other GMS believe what I believe.  They would want retention in trading for him because @ $11.5M, his contract would negatively effect other roster decisions to the point getting him is pointless.  

2 minutes ago, LindG1000 said:

 

It's a fair statement, but it really ignores that if not for COVID we'd have seen his contract surpassed multiple times in UFA/RFA negotiations at this point. It's a fuckton of "hindsight is 20/20" thinking to point to the number and the output - which are actually pretty well aligned for UFA contracts around the league - and then talk about how he's somehow a detriment.

 

You say he's a perimeter player, and while true, he might be the best perimeter player on the planet. He creates opportunities by commanding the respect of the defense in ways that others don't and can't. That has a ton of value and to me, he uses it really well most of the time. I think teams like the Carolinas and Tampas of the league - and there's like two others - do a really good job of taking his options away instead of playing him up, and that flustered him more than it should have.

I'm not arguing that his contract ws bd when they signed him.  Covid happened & while we cry bout it the league & the world moved on.  The league's standard for competition adjusted.  I'm very simply saying the team needs to explore their options in getting out from his contract nd building in other direction.  Doesn't infer that his contract ws awful  when signed, it's just hindering now.  Yes because the cp didn't go up.  Covid isn't going to be the excuse why I'm not locking up Miller & Lf long term.  Nobody cares bout Covid, move on.  The rest of the league will without you

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It's not "controversial." You just aren't going to get many to agree with you that it's a detriment. It's too strong a term for a player who's scored 249 points in 186 games as a Ranger.

I'm fine with that.  I don't need agreement.  Just not goofy, ignorant nd plying with crayons. Big difference.

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

 

If he didn't have a down season, what the heck are you complaining about? Over a PPG player and you feel the need to think they or he can do better?

 

Better spent on what? He's the top point producer at his position. He had ONE poor playoffs (has had better in the past, this isn't Rick Nash) and still put up points. 

 

96 points may as well be 100 man. Come off it. The fucking guy is really good and atop point producers for his position consistently. 

 

Your gripe is overblown. Besides the flat cap  screwing up everything,  you COULD chalk it up to a bad team having to pay more for a legit superstar (even though he reportedly took less to come here). The guy is one of the best in the game. You can't deny that. The stats show it. 

 

I honestly think Panarin is going to have an MVP, Art Ross, Conn Smythe type season next year. Fuckin guy is great. Back off a bit man. Realize how much he means to this team. 

 

Would I rather Tkachuk? Fuck yes. But, as usual the Rangers weren't in a position to aquire such a player.  Too many variables that go past Panarins contract. 

 

Let it go. Embrace the FACT that the Rangers have one of the most elite LWs in the entire world. 

Better spent on. more complete player.  I don't view points s the end of it.  He's perimeter player who hs. questionable compete level.  He's skilled s fuck, no doubt.  However if I'm paying top 3 money it better be  perfect player.  He is not even close.  The guys he's $ like, re centers, which is so much more important.  They also put up  lot more gols nd I don't have to mess with the numbers to get to 100 pt yrs.  

The playoffs while some my think I'm overblowing made it crystal clear the he's very flawed player.   Skilled nd productive during the regular season but also easily confined to the point of being irrelevant when the teams get used to each other.   Tht is not the case with his peers making his money. 

Just now, Phil said:

 

Nope. Bridge too far for me. But I'd make that trade ten times out of ten, no hesitation.

I get it.  My opinion is his contact is. problem for what he provides & the opportunity cost of keeping him.  I don't see why it's so controversial to keep this opinion or how I'm being willfully ignorant.

Just now, CCCP said:

No way Panarin is a complimentary guy, he definitely is a go to superstar. He just has to stop running away

He can go be the superstar elsewhere then.    

Just now, Phil said:

Tkachuk is what they needed. Same position. Same-ish production. Mean as fuck.

100%.  Couldn't happen unless P@nri@n went to the Flames.  Detriment to the team, exactly my point.