Coyotes Acquire Jakub Voracek's Contract From CBJ in Latest Money Laundering Scheme That's Totally Not Cap Circumvention

[Phil]

 

[LindG1000]

Not at all cap circumvention. Nope.

 

They're currently icing a team that will be paid less than the cap in 2007. Sure, they're fudging cap hits, but how is this not just blatant circumvention?

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

i mean, if they're within the rules established by the CBA i dont have a problem with it

[Cash or Czech]

Another reason to abolish the salary cap/floor

[Phil]

1 hour ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

i mean, if they're within the rules established by the CBA i dont have a problem with it

 

The issue is, this comes right off the heels of Bettman and Daly apparently warning teams not to acquire injured players who they might then stash on IR until the playoffs. "Within the rules" is fine, if that's the standard, but have one standard, not two. Cap shenanigans, for lack of a better term, are either OK or they aren't. Stop picking and choosing which loopholes you'll allow and which you won't, and more specifically, who you threaten and who you don't.

 

What the Coyotes are doing here is functionally no different than what the Wild are doing with Nyqvist. They just operate in opposing timelines. For both teams, the ultimate goal is to win the Cup. For the Wild, they exploit the cap by stashing an injured player until the playoffs who can maybe help them in them. For the Coyotes, they are artificially keeping their franchise above the cap floor while bottoming out in the hopes to land Bedard. If they get him, they would presumably then add to quickly become a playoff team.

 

So, again, one standard. Loopholes are OK or they aren't. Stop picking and choosing when you are going to threaten people who exploit them.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

fair. I dont have a problem with teams trading for an injured player and stashing them for the playoffs either though.

 

Back when the Devils signed Kovalchuk, I think it was clear that that was an attempt to get a reduced cap hit for a player making significantly more that had no intention of playing that contract through

 

If a player gets injured while on a reasonable length contract that they earned, their contract should be treated like any other in my opinion

 

edit: and if the NHL wants to crack down on something they should create a rule to stop it instead of bitching about teams using rules to their advantage

Edited March 2 by BlairBettsBlocksEverything

[Phil]

1 minute ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

fair. I dont have a problem with teams trading for an injured player and stashing them for the playoffs either though.

 

Back when the Devils signed Kovalchuk, I think it was clear that that was an attempt to get a reduced cap hit for a player making significantly more that had no intention of playing that contract through

 

If a player gets injured while on a reasonable length contract that they earned, their contract should be treated like any other in my opinion

 

Kovalchuk is actually a great example of the NHL picking and choosing. Hossa, Keith, Zetterberg, etc. all signed similar deals at the time, all exploiting the same exact loophole. In fact, if my memory serves, the Devils complained about getting punished for it, because they were essentially targeted by the league over it. I think it's why they ultimately were able to get the punishment rescinded.

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

ah i didnt realize the punishment got rescinded for them on that. interesting.

Still, I think a big difference in this scenario is, with Voracek's contract, when he signed it, he probably envisioned playing that deal out. Kovalchuck absolutely didnt, and he and the team knew exactly what they were doing

 

If the NHL wants to stop teams from trading around LTIR Contracts, then make a rule to stop it. Otherwise, teams would be irresponsible to not use every tool at their disposal. 

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, BlairBettsBlocksEverything said:

ah i didnt realize the punishment got rescinded for them on that. interesting.

Still, I think a big difference in this scenario is, with Voracek's contract, when he signed it, he probably envisioned playing that deal out. Kovalchuck absolutely didnt, and he and the team knew exactly what they were doing

 

If the NHL wants to stop teams from trading around LTIR Contracts, then make a rule to stop it. Otherwise, teams would be irresponsible to not use every tool at their disposal. 

 

I'm not comparing the specific circumstances, I'm saying that the NHL has on more than one occasion appeared to pick and choose when they want to make a big deal out of cap circumvention/loopholes.

 

And I completely agree with your second paragraph. That's my entire point. If you're mad about the loopholes, CLOSE THEM. Enforce it. Or don't. But don't do it selectively like this (or the Devils).

[SaveByRichter35]

That thread title though

[Cash or Czech]

Theory I saw is Arizona is building a team for when the new arena is built. Does it make sense? Meh. Do they suck now and for the foreseeable future while they’re playing in a college arena? Yes. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, SaveByRichter35 said:

That thread title though

 

I'm all about that accuracy.

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, Cash or Czech said:

Theory I saw is Arizona is building a team for when the new arena is built. Does it make sense? Meh. Do they suck now and for the foreseeable future while they’re playing in a college arena? Yes. 

 

That's exactly what they're doing. They want Bedard. Badly. He would be the "face" of the Tempe project.

[jsrangers]

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

That's exactly what they're doing. They want Bedard. Badly. He would be the "face" of the Tempe project.

Sure he would, and if they don't get him. They tighten up those clown shoes and continue on down the road. 

 

Honestly I don't really ever see them being run like a true first class org spending big cap dollars year after year with an actually long term plan to win. Part of that being their almost at the bottom of the list for every big name free agent. I don't see that changing much even if they get Bedard. They still have at least how many more seasons playing in the college rink 2?  I guess I'm not totally sold on the 3D chess. 

Edited March 2 by jsrangers

[BlairBettsBlocksEverything]

 

Maybe I change my mind lol

[Pete]

22 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Kovalchuk is actually a great example of the NHL picking and choosing. Hossa, Keith, Zetterberg, etc. all signed similar deals at the time, all exploiting the same exact loophole. In fact, if my memory serves, the Devils complained about getting punished for it, because they were essentially targeted by the league over it. I think it's why they ultimately were able to get the punishment rescinded.

It was a great example of "It's ok to skirt the rules, but don't whip out your wrench and center ice and slap me with it."

 

Keith deal:

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SAL
2010-11	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$3,000,000	$5,000,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
2011-12	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$2,000,000	$6,000,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
2012-13	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$1,500,000	$6,500,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
2013-14	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$1,000,000	$6,650,000	$7,650,000	$7,650,000
2014-15	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$7,600,000	$7,600,000	$7,600,000
2015-16	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
2016-17	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2017-18	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$5,000,000	$5,000,000	$5,000,000
2018-19	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$4,500,000	$4,500,000	$4,500,000
2019-20	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$3,500,000	$3,500,000	$3,500,000
2020-21	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$2,650,000	$2,650,000	$2,650,000
2021-22	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$2,100,000	$2,100,000	$2,100,000
2022-23	NMC	$5,538,462	$5,538,462	$0	$0	$1,500,000	$1,500,000	$1,500,000

 

 

Kovalchuk deal:

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SAL
2010-11		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2011-12		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2012-13		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$11,000,000	$11,000,000	$11,000,000
2013-14		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$11,300,000	$11,300,000	$11,300,000
2014-15		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$11,300,000	$11,300,000	$11,300,000
2015-16		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$11,600,000	$11,600,000	$11,600,000
2016-17		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$11,800,000	$11,800,000	$11,800,000
2017-18		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$10,000,000	$10,000,000	$10,000,000
2018-19		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$7,000,000
2019-20		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$4,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000
2020-21		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$1,000,000	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
2021-22		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$1,000,000	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
2022-23		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$1,000,000	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
2023-24		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$3,000,000	$3,000,000	$3,000,000
2024-25		$6,666,666	$6,666,666	$0	$0	$4,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,000,000

 

 

One of these is not like the other.

[Phil]

Oh, 100%, and the Devils failed to sign him to an appropriate contract the first time, which is probably why the league slapped them when the second one came through.

 

All of these deals varied in their degree of year-to-year variance, but they all set out to achieve the same thing: artificially lower the AAV by tacking on years the player never intended to play. Which is why the league came down on them.

 

But my point isn't specific to this issue, or even to what the Coyotes are doing — it's to the fact that the league picks and chooses when it's going to put its foot down about this stuff. I just want it to be consistent. Shenanigans are either OK or they aren't. Pick a lane and ride it.