Kreider Surpasses Messier for 7th Most Goals in Rangers Franchise History

[Cash or Czech]

 

[Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc]

He’ll get to top 3 next season. Still has a shot at #1, but I don’t think he’ll be here long enough.

[siddious]

I hope he gets 1. That would be fun to watch.

 

 

I’ll throw this out there… as of right now… gets his ranger # retired? 

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc said:

He’ll get to top 3 next season. Still has a shot at #1, but I don’t think he’ll be here long enough.

 

Yeah, he's a lock for three, I think (barring an unpredictable early exit this deadline or offseason). I think he's got a decent shot at second, too. I dunno about first.

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, siddious said:

I hope he gets 1. That would be fun to watch.

 

I’ll throw this out there… as of right now… gets his ranger # retired? 

 

Probably. Especially if he breaks or comes close to breaking some of these team records.

[Ozzy]

19 minutes ago, siddious said:

I hope he gets 1. That would be fun to watch.

 

 

I’ll throw this out there… as of right now… gets his ranger # retired? 

 

If this team wins a cup, I'd say number retired.  Right now...I think it's a "definite maybe".

[RJWantsTheCup]

If he stays the length of his contract he will get his number retired.

[jsm7302]

I'm penciling him in for 5th by seasons end and 3rd next year.

[Keirik]

Probably looking at a Mika / Kreids number retirement jersey together when it’s all said and done. Let’s just hope there is a cup celebration between that. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Keirik said:

Probably looking at a Mika / Kreids number retirement jersey together when it’s all said and done. Let’s just hope there is a cup celebration between that. 

2 bros 1 cup? 

[RangersIn7]

Just now, Pete said:

2 bros 1 cup? 

 

[Br4d]

Zibanejad is going to be a sad dude when the Rangers finally trade CK.

[Gravesy]

12 hours ago, Phil said:

12 hours ago, siddious said:

I hope he gets 1. That would be fun to watch.

 

I’ll throw this out there… as of right now… gets his ranger # retired? 

 

Probably. Especially if he breaks or comes close to breaking some of these team records.

I saw this tweet and I started thinking about where Kreider belongs in context of Rangers legends. Weirdly, I have never really thought about him that way. Certainly, the idea of Kreiders jersey being in the rafters has never even crossed my mind. But given his production and longevity it's certainly up for debate.

I think it might be because he's never been a dominant force, never truly elite and for long stretches of his career has sort of felt like unfulfilled potential given his physical gifts. Fairly or not. 

 

For those interested in the NFL, it reminds me a lot of the "is Frank Gore a HOF'er" discussion. Apart from a couple of peaks he was never the best guy around, just a really good player who was in the league and productive for much longer than your normal running back. And as a result, has incredible counting stats. 

 

I feel the same way about Kreider. Good player, great guy, excellent soldier, will be firmly cemented as one of highest scorers in org history. But I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of Chris Kreider, bonafide Rangers legend with his jersey retired. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I just don't think of him in the same vein as your Leetch, Graves, Hank etc. 

[RichieNextel305]

1 hour ago, Gravesy said:

I saw this tweet and I started thinking about where Kreider belongs in context of Rangers legends. Weirdly, I have never really thought about him that way. Certainly, the idea of Kreiders jersey being in the rafters has never even crossed my mind. But given his production and longevity it's certainly up for debate.

I think it might be because he's never been a dominant force, never truly elite and for long stretches of his career has sort of felt like unfulfilled potential given his physical gifts. Fairly or not. 

 

For those interested in the NFL, it reminds me a lot of the "is Frank Gore a HOF'er" discussion. Apart from a couple of peaks he was never the best guy around, just a really good player who was in the league and productive for much longer than your normal running back. And as a result, has incredible counting stats. 

 

I feel the same way about Kreider. Good player, great guy, excellent soldier, will be firmly cemented as one of highest scorers in org history. But I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of Chris Kreider, bonafide Rangers legend with his jersey retired. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I just don't think of him in the same vein as your Leetch, Graves, Hank etc. 

I’m realizing your username, so I can kind of understand that this may be a soft spot. But outside of a Cup win, which may still or may not be a part of Kreiders future here, he’s on pace to blow by Graves in terms of production as a Ranger. Graves played 772 games as a Ranger, with 280 goals and 220 assists for 507 points. Kreider is already at 251 goals and 209 assists for 460 points in 705 games. And he’s only climbing. Assuming he doesn’t get dealt this summer, have to assume he will blow by Graves NYR totals in both categories by next season.

 

I always was a Graves fan. But while I think it’s fair to say we’ve never thought of Kreider in the same way we would think of a Brian Leetch or a Henrik Lundqvist (a HOF’er and 1 soon-to-be HOF’er), I think it might be a little unfair to say we’ve never thought of him in the same mold as a Graves. Both had good numbers here. Kreiders will likely be better, and probably over a longer stretch. Both had one big booming 50+ goal campaign. Hypothetically, if the Rangers ever did happen to win a Cup this year, their career totals as Rangers would almost be a damn near mirror of one another.

 

So to say it’s a little hard to not think of him in the same breath as an Adam Graves is a little bit of a reach for me.

[jsm7302]

20 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I’m realizing your username, so I can kind of understand that this may be a soft spot. But outside of a Cup win, which may still or may not be a part of Kreiders future here, he’s on pace to blow by Graves in terms of production as a Ranger. Graves played 772 games as a Ranger, with 280 goals and 220 assists for 507 points. Kreider is already at 251 goals and 209 assists for 460 points in 705 games. And he’s only climbing. Assuming he doesn’t get dealt this summer, have to assume he will blow by Graves NYR totals in both categories by next season.

 

I always was a Graves fan. But while I think it’s fair to say we’ve never thought of Kreider in the same way we would think of a Brian Leetch or a Henrik Lundqvist (a HOF’er and 1 soon-to-be HOF’er), I think it might be a little unfair to say we’ve never thought of him in the same mold as a Graves. Both had good numbers here. Kreiders will likely be better, and probably over a longer stretch. Both had one big booming 50+ goal campaign. Hypothetically, if the Rangers ever did happen to win a Cup this year, their career totals as Rangers would almost be a damn near mirror of one another.

 

So to say it’s a little hard to not think of him in the same breath as an Adam Graves is a little bit of a reach for me.

That's the difference for me. A cup will tip the scales for CK20.

[Br4d]

I don't think Kreider is bound for the HoF.  Graves BTW is a pretty good comparison.  For Kreider to get to the HoF he'd have to have another top out season like last year and he'd need to have maybe 4 more normal CK seasons and the Rangers would need to win a cup somewhere in there.  That would get him to the 400 goals that would give him a good shot.

 

A LW gets in for about 1,000 points and anywhere from 250 to 400+ goals.   If the guy is a really prolific goal scorer he can get in with less points and more goals.

[Gravesy]

1 hour ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I’m realizing your username, so I can kind of understand that this may be a soft spot. But outside of a Cup win, which may still or may not be a part of Kreiders future here, he’s on pace to blow by Graves in terms of production as a Ranger. Graves played 772 games as a Ranger, with 280 goals and 220 assists for 507 points. Kreider is already at 251 goals and 209 assists for 460 points in 705 games. And he’s only climbing. Assuming he doesn’t get dealt this summer, have to assume he will blow by Graves NYR totals in both categories by next season.

 

I always was a Graves fan. But while I think it’s fair to say we’ve never thought of Kreider in the same way we would think of a Brian Leetch or a Henrik Lundqvist (a HOF’er and 1 soon-to-be HOF’er), I think it might be a little unfair to say we’ve never thought of him in the same mold as a Graves. Both had good numbers here. Kreiders will likely be better, and probably over a longer stretch. Both had one big booming 50+ goal campaign. Hypothetically, if the Rangers ever did happen to win a Cup this year, their career totals as Rangers would almost be a damn near mirror of one another.

 

So to say it’s a little hard to not think of him in the same breath as an Adam Graves is a little bit of a reach for me.

Yeah, that's probably fair. 

My feeling on Graves is massively influenced by the 94 run, probably more than I realize. I think it's colored by personality types too. Some guys are these larger than life individuals, some - like Kreider - aren't. When I think of Graves I think of him sacrificing his well being to score a goal, cost what it may, blood all over his jersey etc. I think of him skating around in warm ups for game 7, looking up at the Garden faithful to the deafening noise of "We want the cup" - totally unfazed. Maybe my favorite moment in sports ever. I don't have those moments with Kreider. 

I think you're right in that, if you isolate just the two as players, they're not miles apart.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Gravesy

[RichieNextel305]

15 minutes ago, Gravesy said:

Yeah, that's probably fair. 

My feeling on Graves is massively influenced by the 94 run, probably more than I realize. I think it's colored by personality types too. Some guys are these larger than life individuals, some - like Kreider - aren't. When I think of Graves I think of him sacrificing his well being to score a goal, cost what it may, blood all over his jersey etc. I think of him skating around in warm ups for game 7, looking up at the Garden faithful to the deafening noise of "We want the cup" - totally unfazed. Maybe my favorite moment in sports ever. I don't have those moments with Kreider. 

I think you're right in that, if you isolate just the two as players, they're not miles apart.

Respect this response.

[Arty]

If Mark played with Kreider he’d have given him a serious talk about effort

[siddious]

19 minutes ago, Arty said:

If Mark played with Kreider he’d have given him a serious talk about effort

It’s been a quiet 22 goals this year for him. Last year it felt like he was visible each game this year I feel like you don’t really notice him which is more inline with what he’s been like most of his career.

 

hopefully he’s saving it for the playoffs

[RichieNextel305]

Just now, siddious said:

It’s been a quiet 22 goals this year for him. Last year it felt like he was visible each game this year I feel like you don’t really notice him which is more inline with what he’s been like most of his career.

 

hopefully he’s saving it for the playoffs

Last year it was an all out assault by both he and that PP1 unit. Like you said, this year he’s more back to being himself. He’s streaky.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I’m realizing your username, so I can kind of understand that this may be a soft spot. But outside of a Cup win, which may still or may not be a part of Kreiders future here, he’s on pace to blow by Graves in terms of production as a Ranger. Graves played 772 games as a Ranger, with 280 goals and 220 assists for 507 points. Kreider is already at 251 goals and 209 assists for 460 points in 705 games. And he’s only climbing. Assuming he doesn’t get dealt this summer, have to assume he will blow by Graves NYR totals in both categories by next season.

 

I always was a Graves fan. But while I think it’s fair to say we’ve never thought of Kreider in the same way we would think of a Brian Leetch or a Henrik Lundqvist (a HOF’er and 1 soon-to-be HOF’er), I think it might be a little unfair to say we’ve never thought of him in the same mold as a Graves. Both had good numbers here. Kreiders will likely be better, and probably over a longer stretch. Both had one big booming 50+ goal campaign. Hypothetically, if the Rangers ever did happen to win a Cup this year, their career totals as Rangers would almost be a damn near mirror of one another.

 

So to say it’s a little hard to not think of him in the same breath as an Adam Graves is a little bit of a reach for me.

I got to be honest, the Graves comparison falls flat for me because getting your jersey retired is not just about stats.

 

Graves had a reputation for running through a wall for his teammates, and leaving it all out on the ice every single shift every single game.

 

Nobody would confuse Kreider with somebody willing to run through a wall for his teammates. The last time he was willing to drop the gloves was with Subban. Think about that. Team constantly out there looking for muscle so that they don't get run over, and there's a 6-3 230 lb guy who knows how to drop 'em just sitting in the corner of the locker room reading Shakespeare and playing piano. 

[RichieNextel305]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

I got to be honest, the Graves comparison falls flat for me because getting your jersey retired is not just about stats.

 

Graves had a reputation for running through a wall for his teammates, and leaving it all out on the ice every single shift every single game.

 

Nobody would confuse Kreider with somebody willing to run through a wall for his teammates. The last time he was willing to drop the gloves was with Subban. Think about that. Team constantly out there looking for muscle so that they don't get run over, and there's a 6-3 230 lb guy who knows how to drop 'em just sitting in the corner of the locker room reading Shakespeare and playing piano. 

I don’t disagree with that at all.

 

But fighting has never really been a part of Kreiders game. I get that he has size and has actually fought before. But that and that alone doesn’t make him something that he isn’t.

 

As far as Graves goes, it’s a slippery slope because he is so beloved by this fanbase; myself included. 

Bottom line is this. Until Kreider gets a Cup to his name, there really is no comparison. It’s hard to look at players we’re watching at the moment and think of them down the line, retired, etc. 

[BrooksBurner]

Kreider should be a career Ranger. Good contract value and has always performed consistently year in and year out. We can talk about in-year consistency in the distant past, but that is no longer valid. 50 goals last year, pacing 35 this year. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he’s a 40 goal scorer more than once through the rest of his contract. His underlying analytics have been excellent for years. Only two years in his career has he been below a 52 xGF%. Only one year has he been below a 52 GF%. Absolute production machine his whole career. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, RichieNextel305 said:

I don’t disagree with that at all.

 

But fighting has never really been a part of Kreiders game. I get that he has size and has actually fought before. But that and that alone doesn’t make him something that he isn’t.

 

As far as Graves goes, it’s a slippery slope because he is so beloved by this fanbase; myself included. 

Bottom line is this. Until Kreider gets a Cup to his name, there really is no comparison. It’s hard to look at players we’re watching at the moment and think of them down the line, retired, etc. 

It was never part of Graves' game unless liberties were taken with teammates. 

 

I actually think CK is a more polished player than Graves was. Better hands around the net, more speed, better skater, but where CK wins on skill, Graves is miles ahead on will. 

 

CK was a pretty emotional leader last year, this year feels very sterile. I just can't get behind a guy who's level of care seems so low. Regardless of what's going on in his head, it's certainly not reflective on the ice.