Staple Panarin and Trocheck: It's a Problem

[BrooksBurner]

https://theathletic.com/4109076/2023/01/19/new-york-rangers-trocheck-panarin/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

 

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NEW YORK — There is what the numbers say, what your eyes tell you and what the coach says.

 

The numbers would tell you that Artemi Panarin and Vincent Trocheck have been the most common linemates for one another this season, playing 430:19 of five-on-five time together and generating 57.2 percent of the shot attempts while on the ice (numbers courtesy Natural Stat Trick). That’s a good percentage.

 

But your eyes are not deceiving you. This is not a second-line pairing that’s working well. Gerard Gallant backed that viewpoint up after Thursday’s 3-1 loss to the league-leading Bruins, a game that featured some good play-driving and chance-generating from the Rangers (including by the Panarin-Trocheck second line) but a couple of hideous shifts from that line that directly led to Bruins goals.

 

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An executive from another organization texted back on July 13, when the Rangers kicked off free agency by signing Trocheck to a seven-year deal worth $5.625-million per, to say this:

 

“Good player. Bad fit.”

 

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It’s not yet 50 games into Trocheck’s first season with the Rangers so it’s hard to make any sort of declaration. So far, though, Trocheck’s grinding, energetic style has indeed not fit with Panarin’s symphony conductor style of play.

 

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Trocheck’s best stretch of five-on-five play this season came when he was part of a third line with Chris Kreider and Vesey, when Trocheck’s straight-ahead style created some good chances. Gallant may have little choice but to concede the No. 2 center spot to Filip Chytil for the near term and see if Panarin and Chytil can find some common ground.

 

[BrooksBurner]

The best two options this summer were:

 

1a) Re-sign Strome, especially given what he went for

1b) Elevate Chytil, sign or trade for a cheap middle 6 C to help bridge the gap a year (my personal preference)

 

Instead, Drury chose option C and now there's more questions than before about what to do moving forward.

 

I've got major questions about Drury's performance to date. A lot of subpar moves.

Edited January 20, 2023 by rmc51

[jsm7302]

5 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

The best two options this summer were:

 

1a) Re-sign Strome, especially given what he went for

1b) Elevate Chytil, sign or trade for a cheap middle 6 C to help bridge the gap a year (my personal preference)

 

Instead, Drury chose option C and now there's more questions than before about what to do moving forward.

 

I've got major questions about Drury's performance to date. A lot of subpar moves.

I was against promoting Chytil due to lack of performance prior to this season. However, I was a fan of resigning Strome. Love what Trochek brings but not a good fit for his line. Idk how to rectify it now.

[torontonyr]

I'm not saying it's perfect, but isn't plan B still entirely viable?

 

Sure, nobody wants to overpay at 3c but there's nothing stopping the Rangers from playing Chytil in the 2c role.

[jsm7302]

8 minutes ago, torontonyr said:

I'm not saying it's perfect, but isn't plan B still entirely viable?

 

Sure, nobody wants to overpay at 3c but there's nothing stopping the Rangers from playing Chytil in the 2c role.

Easy solution....that's the problem. Gallant has won too much to show him the door now yet he still will not make this simple adjustment. Exhausting to watch Panarin and Trochek not click at all. This team needs another gear and the solution is staring Gerry in the face. Push the button! Do it! Chytil to line 2!

[BrooksBurner]

19 minutes ago, torontonyr said:

I'm not saying it's perfect, but isn't plan B still entirely viable?

 

Sure, nobody wants to overpay at 3c but there's nothing stopping the Rangers from playing Chytil in the 2c role.

 

Yes. It just limits flexibility now in the short term with Tro's cap hit.

[Ozzy]

20 minutes ago, torontonyr said:

I'm not saying it's perfect, but isn't plan B still entirely viable?

 

Sure, nobody wants to overpay at 3c but there's nothing stopping the Rangers from playing Chytil in the 2c role.

 

10 minutes ago, jsm7302 said:

Easy solution....that's the problem. Gallant has won too much to show him the door now yet he still will not make this simple adjustment. Exhausting to watch Panarin and Trochek not click at all. This team needs another gear and the solution is staring Gerry in the face. Push the button! Do it! Chytil to line 2!

 

I think this is the ticket.

 

I wasn't an advocate of Chytil at all up until this season, but he's shown me differently this year.  He still shitty on faceoffs, and has his struggles on board battles, but he's a better player, and I can now see promise where the last few seasons I thought he wasn't gonna cut it.

 

So basically, we pay our 3rd line center like a 2C, and our 2C like a 3C???  Sure, fuck it....that works.  As long as this chemistry experiment clicks, I'm all in!

[Phil]

1 hour ago, rmc51 said:

The best two options this summer were:

 

1a) Re-sign Strome, especially given what he went for

1b) Elevate Chytil, sign or trade for a cheap middle 6 C to help bridge the gap a year (my personal preference)

 

Instead, Drury chose option C and now there's more questions than before about what to do moving forward.

 

I've got major questions about Drury's performance to date. A lot of subpar moves.

 

100% all of this.

 

Classic "grass isn't always greener" moment. They fucked with happy and found out.

 

This feels like Cullen all over again. Good player, on paper, but bad fit, and just isn't working in the market. Ironic, given Cullen also came directly from the Canes.

 

Trocheck, to me, needs a heavily structured team. I was kicking this idea around with some of the boys in a group chat yesterday or the day before: depending on what happens with the Bruins this season/playoffs/off-season, I'd be keeping close ties to their FO about a potential trade this summer. Especially if Bergeron and/or Krejci retire, and/or Smith leaves in free agency. They have no center depth at all, and Trocheck's stlye of play would probably be a lot better suited to the Bruins heavily North American approach.

This would also give Chytil the grounds he needs to fully take up that mantle. It's shit or get off the pot time with him, anyway.

[Long live the King]

The answer is simple.

 

Laf - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Chytil - Krav

Kredier - Trocheck - Goodrow

Vesey - New Guy - Gaut

[Phil]

There are actually two potential solutions to try. The easiest is to simply move Trocheck to the third line, probably with Kreider and Vesey (or Goodrow) and then move Chytil up with Panarin.

 

Another option, though, is to just move Panarin up to the top line with Zibanejad.

[jsm7302]

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

There are actually two potential solutions to try. The easiest is to simply move Trocheck to the third line, probably with Kreider and Vesey (or Goodrow) and then move Chytil up with Panarin.

 

Another option, though, is to just move Panarin up to the top line with Zibanejad.

This line was great. I really don't get why the coach doesn't see it but Iets def go with Goodrow over Kreids. Let Kreids and Zib work through this ice cold streak. Put chinstrap hero on the fourth line.

 

Kreids-Zib-Kakko

Panarin-Chytil-Krav

Goodrow-Trochek-Vesey

Laf-Brodzinski-Gauthier

[Art20c]

Thus far looks like drury fucked it up big time. Even worse than buchnevich fuck up trade. 

[BrooksBurner]

49 minutes ago, Phil said:

There are actually two potential solutions to try. The easiest is to simply move Trocheck to the third line, probably with Kreider and Vesey (or Goodrow) and then move Chytil up with Panarin.

 

Another option, though, is to just move Panarin up to the top line with Zibanejad.

I’d try Goodrow with Chytil and Panarin. Like @Ozzy said, Chytil sucks bad at faceoffs. Goodrow could be better at them, but he’s at least a competitive rate.

 

Kreider - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Chytil - Goodrow

Laugh - Tro - Krav

Vesey - Brodz - Gauthier
 

Tro is a chaser and a chucker. Let him do it. Krav is disciplined in each zone, and surprisingly unafraid to go to the net. Might work well. Laugh is Laugh. I would swap Vesey and Laugh, but it won’t happen.

[Ozzy]

If I remember correctly, Panarin didn't "like" playing with Kakko either.   Trocheck, I think could be a really good fit for us come playoff time.  That annoying, mucker type play is what we lacked somewhat.  But he's grown on me, and has shown me some value at the center spot. 

 

I think he'd be good with Yukon and either Kravvy or Goody.

@rmc51  RMC has a pretty good line setup above.

[jsm7302]

13 minutes ago, rmc51 said:

I’d try Goodrow with Chytil and Panarin. Like @Ozzy said, Chytil sucks bad at faceoffs. Goodrow could be better at them, but he’s at least a competitive rate.

 

Kreider - Zib - Kakko

Panarin - Chytil - Goodrow

Laugh - Tro - Krav

Vesey - Brodz - Gauthier
 

Tro is a chaser and a chucker. Let him do it. Krav is disciplined in each zone, and surprisingly unafraid to go to the net. Might work well. Laugh is Laugh. I would swap Vesey and Laugh, but it won’t happen.

I initially didn't want Goodrow on the second line but if Vatrano/Copp can succeed there then so can Goodrow.

[Ozzy]

Maybe we should focus more on the defensive pairings, because they're the only ones scoring right now!!!  LOL

[Long live the King]

Kid line!  Young Adult line

 

Panarin - Zib - Krav

Laf - Chytil - Kakko

Kredier - Trocheck - Goodrow

Vesey - New Guy - Gaut

Edited January 20, 2023 by Long live the King

[torontonyr]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

100% all of this.

 

Classic "grass isn't always greener" moment. They fucked with happy and found out.

 

This feels like Cullen all over again. Good player, on paper, but bad fit, and just isn't working in the market. Ironic, given Cullen also came directly from the Canes.

 

Trocheck, to me, needs a heavily structured team. I was kicking this idea around with some of the boys in a group chat yesterday or the day before: depending on what happens with the Bruins this season/playoffs/off-season, I'd be keeping close ties to their FO about a potential trade this summer. Especially if Bergeron and/or Krejci retire, and/or Smith leaves in free agency. They have no center depth at all, and Trocheck's stlye of play would probably be a lot better suited to the Bruins heavily North American approach.

This would also give Chytil the grounds he needs to fully take up that mantle. It's shit or get off the pot time with him, anyway.

In retrospect, maybe. But given the injury in the post season, along with his ceiling, I can see why they were hesitant.

 

If he was coming in on a heater and in great shape I'd definitely fault them more.

[RJWantsTheCup]

They have to figure out some combination that ignites the offense.  Power play isn't what it was last year and 5 on 5 scoring seems to be getting worse and worse.  7 total goals in the last 4 games isn't going to cut it.

[Keirik]

I think this article and worries are still a bit premature. Chemistry takes time. A quick look back at scoring logs…..
 

If you go back to scoring logs for Panarins first year here, in Panarins first 40 points of the season, Strome only had a hand in 12 of those points. 

 

if you go to this year and look at Panarins first 40 points of the year, Trocheck has a hand in exactly the same 12 of those points. 
 

   Now obviously that doesn’t factor in linemates exactly but just giving some food for thought. It takes time to adjust. In the end, we really needed to improve from the faceoff dot and we did. Honestly I still think it can work, but Panarin is going to have to try and stop planting himself to the perimeter as much as he does. 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, Keirik said:

I think this article and worries are still a bit premature. Chemistry takes time. A quick look back at scoring logs…..
 

If you go back to scoring logs for Panarins first year here, in Panarins first 40 points of the season, Strome only had a hand in 12 of those points. 

 

if you go to this year and look at Panarins first 40 points of the year, Trocheck has a hand in exactly the same 12 of those points. 
 

   Now obviously that doesn’t factor in linemates exactly but just giving some food for thought. It takes time to adjust. In the end, we really needed to improve from the faceoff dot and we did. Honestly I still think it can work, but Panarin is going to have to try and stop planting himself to the perimeter as much as he does. 

Panarin played his first 8 games with Zib, but also Panarin hit 40 points in 24 games that year. This year it took him until game 33. He was on a 1.38 P/G...This year he's on pace for .98 P/G.

 

I also don't really believe chemistry takes time. Not this long. The chemistry with Strome was immediate as the chemistry with Zib and Kreider and frankly there was quicker chemistry with Kreider/Tro/Vesey.

 

I thought Tro was one of the few players suggested to "upgrade" Strome who might work...While everyone else was notching Trocheck in as a P/G player because Panarin, "good player, bad fit" is how I felt about it at the time (said I hoped they'd find chemistry), and said it last week. Someone said I couldn't be taken seriously because I liked Strome. This is now obvious in the media and among NHL execs.

[Keirik]

Just now, Pete said:

Panarin played his first 8 games with Zib, but also Panarin hit 40 points in 24 games that year. This year it took him until game 33. He was on a 1.38 P/G...This year he's on pace for .98 P/G.

 

I also don't really believe chemistry takes time. Not this long. The chemistry with Strome was immediate as the chemistry with Zib and Kreider and frankly there was quicker chemistry with Kreider/Tro/Vesey.

 

I thought Tro was one of the few players suggested to "upgrade" Strome who might work...While everyone else was notching Trocheck in as a P/G player because Panarin, "good player, bad fit" is how I felt about it at the time (said I hoped they'd find chemistry), and said it last week. Someone said I couldn't be taken seriously because I liked Strome. This is now obvious in the media and among NHL execs.

I half agree. It doesn’t ALWAYS take time but it does sometimes.  The eye test does clearly say that there is no chemistry. But we moved on from Strome. That’s just the way it is. It’s happened. I don’t see the point of bringing him back into the conversation. Who cares if someone was right, wrong, or in between?

 I will say this though. This team better decide what it wants to do soon. Either invest the energy in letting the younger core of the chytils, Kakkos, and Alfs work through their growing pains and slide so,e vets like Kreider and Tro down, or invest in the vets fully. This half sss Chytil one daybplayi g up in the lineup then next day flopped back doesn’t help anything. Pick a lane and stick with it. That’s just how I see it. 
 

 

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Keirik said:

I half agree. It doesn’t ALWAYS take time but it does sometimes.  The eye test does clearly say that there is no chemistry. But we moved on from Strome. That’s just the way it is. It’s happened. I don’t see the point of bringing him back into the conversation. Who cares if someone was right, wrong, or in between?

 

 I will say this though. This team better decide what it wants to do soon. Either invest the energy in letting the younger core of the chytils, Kakkos, and Alfs work through their growing pains and slide so,e vets like Kreider and Tro down, or invest in the vets fully. This half sss Chytil one daybplayi g up in the lineup then next day flopped back doesn’t help anything. Pick a lane and stick with it. That’s just how I see it. 

I didn't bring Strome up, you did!

 

I care if someone was right or wrong when I'm being told my opinion is driven because I liked Strome when he was here. That's just silly.

 

The eye test does say there is no chemistry, and it also says he was better with Krieder and Vesey, so unclear why they are forcing Pan-check. It's so clear the lineup is more balanced, with the right players in the right roles getting the right opportunities:

 

Laf Zib Kakko

Panarin Chytil Veez/Goody

Kreider Tro Goody/Veez

Who Fucking Cares

 

But it's like Gallant will do anything to keep the veterans in the "top 6", even if he's not happy with their play (as he refuses to take accountability and just blames players for not playing better).

 

 

[RJWantsTheCup]

I agree Panarin should be playing with Chytil at this point, but Lafraniere can't play with Zibs and Kakko even though Kreider, Trochek, Vesey looked good.   Lafraniere needs some sort of developmental camp to play in.  To bad there isn't anything available for him.

[Keirik]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

I didn't bring Strome up, you did!

 

I care if someone was right or wrong when I'm being told my opinion is driven because I liked Strome when he was here. That's just silly.

 

The eye test does say there is no chemistry, and it also says he was better with Krieder and Vesey, so unclear why they are forcing Pan-check. It's so clear the lineup is more balanced, with the right players in the right roles getting the right opportunities:

 

Laf Zib Kakko

Panarin Chytil Veez/Goody

Kreider Tro Goody/Veez

Who Fucking Cares

 

But it's like Gallant will do anything to keep the veterans in the "top 6", even if he's not happy with their play (as he refuses to take accountability and just blames players for not playing better).

 

 

I just assumed you were Strome. You never hang out, you were always a pro ADA guy just like Strome, and you didn't put up any playoff points just like him.