Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Sure, not sure why that invalidates what I said. Talking down Kotkaniemi as a 4th liner while pulling out the excuses for Kakko sucking dog shit is prime rosy Rangers fan mentality. I'm not talking him down by calling him a fourth liner, he was literally playing on their fourth line LOL. And it has nothing to do with Kakko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, rmc51 said: Ask Pete. He brought Kotkaniemi up and talked about his season playing on Carolina’s 4th line. Which has nothing to do with Kakko LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Pete said: I'm not talking him down by calling him a fourth liner, he was literally playing on their fourth line LOL. And it has nothing to do with Kakko. Hunt played on the Rangers' 2nd line for a large portion of the season. Is he a 2nd liner? You said he's a 4th liner. Not that he played on the 4th line. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Pete said: Which has nothing to do with Kakko LOL. I mean you typed up a paragraph making excuses for Kakko. Then you used Kotkaniemi's offer sheet and resulting usage/production as the basis for why offer sheets don't work, and why Kakko "probably hasn't gotten one". Seems like you made it plenty about Kakko ... and we're in a thread about....Kakko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, rmc51 said: Chytil + Kakko = ~4.6. Strome at 5 + ELC = 5.925 They didn’t want Strome. They replaced him with Trocheck for over 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Long live the King said: They didn’t want Strome. They replaced him with Trocheck for over 5. I'm aware. Strome is still better than Kakko or Chytil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I mean you typed up a paragraph making excuses for Kakko. Then you used Kotkaniemi's offer sheet and resulting usage/production as the basis for why offer sheets don't work, and why Kakko "probably hasn't gotten one". Seems like you made it plenty about Kakko ... and we're in a thread about....Kakko. The two players have nothing to do with each other, you're making a connection that not only isn't there but has nothing to do with the point I was making. I'd like you to go ahead and make a connection between what I said and how you got to where you are. Mentioning two players in the same paragraph doesn't mean that those two players are related or comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long live the King Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I'm aware. Strome is still better than Kakko or Chytil. Strome lost his spot to Trocheck. Chytil and Kakko and the cap have nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindG1000 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I think we can all make heads-or-tails of the #1 reason why Kakko hasn't been offer-sheeted yet (aside from the obvious offer sheets are completely taboo in the NHL and GMs do nothing to step on each others toes and also he has to actually sign it) - there's no cap to sign him to a deal the Rangers won't match, and the teams that COULD do it won't risk throwing the potential Bedard pick in the deal. This isn't rocket science; Larry's just a shit-stirrer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pete said: The two players have nothing to do with each other, you're making a connection that not only isn't there but has nothing to do with the point I was making. I'd like you to go ahead and make a connection between what I said and how you got to where you are. Mentioning two players in the same paragraph doesn't mean that those two players are related or comparable. To be honest, I mostly agreed with the primary point of what you were saying. Offer sheets are risky and the odds are stacked against them working. I just extrapolated off your post because I didn't agree with calling Kotkaniemi a 4th liner just to prove the point, because produces better than that. Is he worth 6.1? Nope. Carolina didn't think so either because they signed him long term at 4.8....6.1 was just a temporary premium. They knew he wasn't going to be worth 6.1 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Long live the King said: Strome lost his spot to Trocheck. Chytil and Kakko and the cap have nothing to do with it. Already answered this, but yes, they have quite a lot to do with it. Quite simply, if Chytil and Kakko did not exist, the Rangers would have had ~4.6M more in cap space to spend and their decision making may have been different regarding a guy like Strome. They could have both Trocheck and Strome right now. I don't blame them for not doing it, but they've chosen a weaker lineup in the hopes the two kids make it better later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, rmc51 said: To be honest, I mostly agreed with the primary point of what you were saying. Offer sheets are risky and the odds are stacked against them working. I just extrapolated off your post because I didn't agree with calling Kotkaniemi a 4th liner just to prove the point, because produces better than that. Is he worth 6.1? Nope. Carolina didn't think so either because they signed him long term at 4.8....6.1 was just a temporary premium. They knew he wasn't going to be worth 6.1 last year. Okay, we're mostly agreed, I'm just telling you I didn't call him a fourth liner to prove a point. He was playing on their fourth line. If the Rangers played a guy making 6.1 on the 4th line, all hell would break loose. Edited July 25, 2022 by Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Pete said: Okay, we're mostly agreed, I'm just telling you I didn't call him a fourth liner to prove a point. He was playing on their fourth line. If the Rangers played a guy making 6.1 on the 4th line, all hell would break loose. I don’t think it can be viewed in that vacuum, because the team gave Kotkaniemi 8 years x $4.8M. 6.1 was a very temporary premium to pull him away from Montreal. By doing this, Carolina told the fans upfront that they knew he wasn’t worth anywhere near 6.1M, and they shouldn’t expect him to be. They knew they had him blocked at center with Aho/Trocheck/Staal. That was never being cracked this year, so if fans were pissed about it that’s on them for not understanding the long game Carolina was playing on this one. They now let Trocheck walk to (presumably) elevate Kotkaniemi to 2C, so we really don’t know if the offer sheet was a good idea or not, but might have more clarity this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I don’t think it can be viewed in that vacuum, because the team gave Kotkaniemi 8 years x $4.8M. 6.1 was a very temporary premium to pull him away from Montreal. By doing this, Carolina told the fans upfront that they knew he wasn’t worth anywhere near 6.1M, and they shouldn’t expect him to be. They knew they had him blocked at center with Aho/Trocheck/Staal. That was never being cracked this year, so if fans were pissed about it that’s on them for not understanding the long game Carolina was playing on this one. They now let Trocheck walk to (presumably) elevate Kotkaniemi to 2C, so we really don’t know if the offer sheet was a good idea or not, but might have more clarity this season. Exactly. They used their cap space prior as a weapon to acquire him and bet on him long-term. Now they may have a guy who spends the better part of the next 8 seasons in their top-6 and for under $5 million. And it wasn’t a sucker bet. While he’s not, IMO, a top-6 forward and 2C yet, he has the pedigree and potential of one and and his development curve is fine, given his opportunities. And he’s shown enough too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooksBurner Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, RangersIn7 said: Exactly. They used their cap space prior as a weapon to acquire him and bet on him long-term. Now they may have a guy who spends the better part of the next 8 seasons in their top-6 and for under $5 million. And it wasn’t a sucker bet. While he’s not, IMO, a top-6 forward and 2C yet, he has the pedigree and potential of one and and his development curve is fine, given his opportunities. And he’s shown enough too. I do wonder if they have some buyer’s remorse at the moment even if they believe in Kotkaniemi long term. Trocheck was really good for them, and their rival who just knocked them out of the playoffs got him for less than $1M more a season than what they are paying Kotkaniemi. They really need to be right on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I don’t think it can be viewed in that vacuum, because the team gave Kotkaniemi 8 years x $4.8M. 6.1 was a very temporary premium to pull him away from Montreal. By doing this, Carolina told the fans upfront that they knew he wasn’t worth anywhere near 6.1M, and they shouldn’t expect him to be. They knew they had him blocked at center with Aho/Trocheck/Staal. That was never being cracked this year, so if fans were pissed about it that’s on them for not understanding the long game Carolina was playing on this one. They now let Trocheck walk to (presumably) elevate Kotkaniemi to 2C, so we really don’t know if the offer sheet was a good idea or not, but might have more clarity this season. Fair enough, but it's still a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersIn7 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, rmc51 said: I do wonder if they have some buyer’s remorse at the moment even if they believe in Kotkaniemi long term. Trocheck was really good for them, and their rival who just knocked them out of the playoffs got him for less than $1M more a season than what they are paying Kotkaniemi. They really need to be right on him. Hard to say. Its only been 1 season in Carolina. And he’s playing a bottom-6 role and minutes, with PP time on 2nd unit sprinkled in. What he does in an expanded role and greater minutes over the next 2-3 seasons is the key. It was a risk. But I think they’ll be fine. I don’t think we’ve seen his best hockey yet by a long-shot. Not saying he becomes a superstar. But I think in the end they probably get a 20+ goal, 50-60 point guy. As of yet, he still is not utilized on the PK at all, nor really in a defensive role, so there’s not a 2-way game to speak of, but he’s a Fin, and that’s inherent in those players with few exceptions, and he was projected to be that kind of player. He’s about to play a lot more minutes for them. Next 2 seasons are huge for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now