jsm7302 Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 Title spells it out. Two expansion franchises with completely different trajectories in their inaugural seasons. Why?!? It seemed obvious when Kraken went through the expansion draft that they were not worried about winning now but when did they plan on winning?
Phil Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 Vegas set an impossibly high bar based on being the first expansion team using this format. Teams tripped over themselves to protect players they really liked and were terrified of losing, so much so that they literally sent better players to Vegas in deals to do so. Smith and Marchessault, for example. I think Seattle hoped for the same, but found none of it. Teams largely learned their lessons from the Vegas draft and effectively said "do your worst." Combine that with taking and signing the league's worst statistical starter this year (Grubauer) and the rest kind of just falls into place, no? 1 1
jsm7302 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Great analysis. It just seems like any of us could have picked a better team from the players they chose from. I remember thinking....him?!? Who the hell is that? For a good number of players. How do they pull themselves out of the hole now? Drafting will take forever. If I am the Rangers, im focusing on them and players we can snag so they have some sort of future.
Pete Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 31 Thots touched on this. GMs knew the deal with Seattle after going through Vegas. They knew better, and so did Seattle. They took character guys and guys they could ship out this season to bring in more assets. They knew they weren't going to have the instant success Vegas did, so they played the long game. They have 6 UFAs this summer, and only 7 skaters signed beyond next season. I'd think those players are the "core", Eberle (Seattle is much closer to Regina than LI), Gourde (Full NTC then 23 team list), Wennberg, Adam Larsson, Oleksiak, Schwartz and Tanev. They were never even trying to "win now". 1
Phil Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Pete said: 31 Thots touched on this. GMs knew the deal with Seattle after going through Vegas. They knew better, and so did Seattle. They took character guys and guys they could ship out this season to bring in more assets. They knew they weren't going to have the instant success Vegas did, so they played the long game. They have 6 UFAs this summer, and only 7 skaters signed beyond next season. I'd think those players are the "core", Eberle (Seattle is much closer to Regina than LI), Gourde (Full NTC then 23 team list), Wennberg, Adam Larsson, Oleksiak, Schwartz and Tanev. They were never even trying to "win now". Yup, makes sense. You can add Dunn and Soucy to that mix, too. Wennberg is the one that hurts most of that group, but they also signed him coming off like a 20% shooting percentage year.
Pete Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil said: Wennberg is the one that hurts most of that group, 40 point pace making 40 point money, under 30 years old when his deal is up. He's fine.
jsm7302 Posted February 3, 2022 Author Posted February 3, 2022 Wennberg.....pretty good third line center.....Georgiev and/or Chytil would look good in a Kraken jersey.....just saying.
Costa Posted February 3, 2022 Posted February 3, 2022 IMO the NHL wanted to "fast track" Vegas because it was a "non traditional" market, where as Seattle has had Jr. hockey for the longest time and was more a no brainer to put a team there.
Pete Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Costa said: IMO the NHL wanted to "fast track" Vegas because it was a "non traditional" market, where as Seattle has had Jr. hockey for the longest time and was more a no brainer to put a team there. And yet the draft rules were the same for both teams....
Costa Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Pete said: And yet the draft rules were the same for both teams.... Same rules...but "different talent".
Sod16 Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 Seattle still got far better players than did Minn. or Columbus, when teams were allowed to protect 17 skaters. Minn. tended to use players from the Euro leagues because the draft was so lame. I think Seattle is doing fine. I just watched them outplay the Rangers and Islanders from start to finish this week. They will get a good package for Giordano, who looked very good against the Islanders the other night. The pre-Vegas expansion teams had no one like that to trade at the deadline. The Wild got nothing better than third and forth round picks at the deadline. They will also have mucho cap space for UFAs.
Pete Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 9 hours ago, Costa said: Same rules...but "different talent". The NHL doesn't control which players teams make available.
Phil Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 It’s far more believable that the league’s managers learned from their mistakes from the Vegas draft (same rules) than they league effectively rigged it for them and told Seattle to kick rocks.
H-Dreamer Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 9 hours ago, Sod16 said: Seattle still got far better players than did Minn. or Columbus, when teams were allowed to protect 17 skaters. Minn. tended to use players from the Euro leagues because the draft was so lame. I think Seattle is doing fine. I just watched them outplay the Rangers and Islanders from start to finish this week. They will get a good package for Giordano, who looked very good against the Islanders the other night. The pre-Vegas expansion teams had no one like that to trade at the deadline. The Wild got nothing better than third and forth round picks at the deadline. They will also have mucho cap space for UFAs. Wild and Jackets were also Teams #3 and #4 to join the league in 3 years, not much left for the 3rd Expansion Draft in a row and 9 new teams in the 90s.
LindG1000 Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Phil said: It’s far more believable that the league’s managers learned from their mistakes from the Vegas draft (same rules) than they league effectively rigged it for them and told Seattle to kick rocks. I want to say that on The Athletic Hockey Show they touched on this - that Francis would not budge from his asks around a 1st and a 3rd to protect a player. In retrospect...foolish. It's probably also worth noting that Seattle hasn't been bad as a whole. Their goaltending has been a godforsaken tire fire that's thrown them to the wolves pretty fast though.
Phil Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, G1000 said: I want to say that on The Athletic Hockey Show they touched on this - that Francis would not budge from his asks around a 1st and a 3rd to protect a player. In retrospect...foolish. It's probably also worth noting that Seattle hasn't been bad as a whole. Their goaltending has been a godforsaken tire fire that's thrown them to the wolves pretty fast though. Yup. I remember reading that, and there being a ton of reports from all the usual insiders signaling that that wasn't going to get met. Think Elliotte, basically, saying something like "I'm hearing Francis wants a first and third to protect a player, and I'm also hearing no one is going for that."
LindG1000 Posted February 4, 2022 Posted February 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Phil said: Yup. I remember reading that, and there being a ton of reports from all the usual insiders signaling that that wasn't going to get met. Think Elliotte, basically, saying something like "I'm hearing Francis wants a first and third to protect a player, and I'm also hearing no one is going for that." Which begs the question, especially since they objectively drafted kinda shit players from a number of teams - why didn't Francis lower his price?
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