Brooks Rangers Must Face Georgiev Issue

[Scott]

7 minutes ago, josh said:

Hits, kills penalties, plays c/w

Would help up front for sure.

There's still the other issue with the pylons.

[siddious]

I know it may not be what you guys wants to hear but I think the defense just needs time more than anything else. it’s improved over this short season already. This is what it looks like when you have a young defense - gotta let them grow into these roles. 

The defensive structure of the team has definitely improved since the start of the year as well. I hope it keeps going in this direction. It’s a new system, they’re only learning to perfect it now. 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, siddious said:

I know it may not be what you guys wants to hear but I think the defense just needs time more than anything else. it’s improved over this short season already. This is what it looks like when you have a young defense - gotta let them grow into these roles. 

The defensive structure of the team has definitely improved since the start of the year as well. I hope it keeps going in this direction. It’s a new system, they’re only learning to perfect it now. 

That's fine but then you also can't complain when your backup gets lit up because your starter is super human. 

[Ozzy]

18 hours ago, Pete said:

There's another way to look at this, which is that the Rangers aren't a good defensive team and rely too heavily on a superhuman goalie.

A modest defensive improvement could work wonders for Geo's confidence. 

You know, you have a solid point there, @Pete.  I didn't really think of it this way, but if you look at it from a goalie perspective, (like I'm sure you do!), you see a guy like Shesty who is far and away looking "super-human".  He's great with the stick and acts like a 3rd defenseman out there.  The defense has hung him out to dry a shit load this year as well.  However Shesterkin has been able to come up with spectacular saves on breakaways, odd man rushes, point blank shots from the slot, and god-like deflections.

The question I have is:  Does all of that come from confidence?  ...or is Georgiev not doing something that he used to do?  Is it his positioning or staying too deep in the net on shots?  Maybe a little bit of everything?  He used to be pretty decent, I thought...but I can't believe how much he's fallen off.

I know you used to play goalie, so you probably have a better insight on this one, man.

13 hours ago, Keirik said:

We need JT Miller. Top 6 guy that is good on faceoffs and provides offense. 5.25m next year as well. 

What do we give up for him, Big K?  I'd take JT in a heartbeat! 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Ozzy

[Valriera]

Sorry but Georgiev is not good, and the issue is not about whether it is the team's fault or not. The issue is that he makes 2.6m to not be good, when we a) need that money and b) have a roughly equivalent backup in the system at 800k. The team's defense has been bad, but Georgiev is good for 1 bad goal a game dating back to last season, and we're not in the market of growing goalies when we have a young, locked up, excellent starter. 

This season it really doesn't matter but I'm not interested in entertaining keeping this man on payroll next year when we need the cap space and finding a capable backup is roughly last on the list of important things to do this off season. 

[ThirtyONE]

9 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Sorry but Georgiev is not good, and the issue is not about whether it is the team's fault or not. The issue is that he makes 2.6m to not be good, when we a) need that money and b) have a roughly equivalent backup in the system at 800k. The team's defense has been bad, but Georgiev is good for 1 bad goal a game dating back to last season, and we're not in the market of growing goalies when we have a young, locked up, excellent starter. 

This season it really doesn't matter but I'm not interested in entertaining keeping this man on payroll next year when we need the cap space and finding a capable backup is roughly last on the list of important things to do this off season. 

Why doesn't matter this season? I think it does. He's almost an automatic loss every time he plays in a tough division where every win is important. I don't care what his salary is, he's not good enough to play for the NHL squad.

[siddious]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

That's fine but then you also can't complain when your backup gets lit up because your starter is super human. 

I think they’re separate issues. The goals georgiev let’s in, he usually should save. Regardless of the defense being good or bad. 

[Pete]

18 minutes ago, Valriera said:

the issue is not about whether it is the team's fault or not.

It actually is an issue, unless it's your expectation that they find a superhuman backup.

[Valriera]

6 minutes ago, ThirtyONE said:

Why doesn't matter this season? I think it does. He's almost an automatic loss every time he plays in a tough division where every win is important. I don't care what his salary is, he's not good enough to play for the NHL squad.

because we're not replacing him right now for less money, which is the goal, so playing kinkaid or whomever in his place is going to amount to roughly the same outcome, maybe slightly better performance. It's next season where I care. We're not getting a rental backup goalie.

[Pete]

5 minutes ago, siddious said:

I think they’re separate issues. The goals georgiev let’s in, he usually should save. Regardless of the defense being good or bad. 

They're separate, but related.

One issue is about fixing Geo, but part of that issue is fixing the defense.

[Valriera]

Just now, Pete said:

It actually is an issue, unless it's your expectation that they find a superhuman backup.

it's an issue just not one i care about when it comes to georgiev. Georgiev is not going to be good with the 2000 era devils in front of him. Give me a different backup we can work with at a lower price point. 

For the defense let's work on that a bit more, ideally with roughly 1.7M in cost savings we'd get from a roughly equivalent and cheaper backup. 

[ThirtyONE]

11 minutes ago, Valriera said:

because we're not replacing him right now for less money, which is the goal, so playing kinkaid or whomever in his place is going to amount to roughly the same outcome, maybe slightly better performance. It's next season where I care. We're not getting a rental backup goalie.

We don't need another starter, we need a competent goalie. Even if Kinkaid is slightly better, he's still better and that could be the difference in a win or loss.

[Pete]

15 minutes ago, Valriera said:

Georgiev is not going to be good with the 2000 era devils in front of him

We do not know this to be true.

Frankly I'm not confident we'll get a much better goalie for less. So you're still taking the L, but with Geo it's how much you lose by.

[The Dude]

12 hours ago, josh said:

Hits, kills penalties, plays c/w

How many Goodrows do they need? Goodrow, Rooney and a mix of Kappo, Zibanejad,  Kreider, Hunt and all the other star players are enough for the PK. 

They need someone that shoots the puck, more than they need grinders. A guy to plant on the Zibanejad RW is the need. This puts Mike Hunt back where he belongs on the 4th line or scratched. 

 

 

[josh]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How many Goodrows do they need? Goodrow, Rooney and a mix of Kappo, Zibanejad,  Kreider, Hunt and all the other star players are enough for the PK. 

They need someone that shoots the puck, more than they need grinders. A guy to plant on the Zibanejad RW is the need. This puts Mike Hunt back where he belongs on the 4th line or scratched. 

 

 

Miller would be 2nd on the team in shots. Behind Kreider.

Kreider 2nd in the league in PP goals (3 ahead of the next guy). He's 4th in the league in goals.

Over the past 2 seasons, even with COVID, Zibanejad is 6th overall in goals, behind Matthews, Draisaitl, Ovechkin, Pasta and McDavid.

Over the past 2 seasons Panarin has been an MVP candidate and is 5th in points while missing time due to allegations and injuries.

You have 2 of the top offensive prospects in the league.

They have other offensive players and prospects that don't see PP time or even make the team.

 

The scoring isn't what needs to be added. All along the need has been a big, physical 3C that can win draws, kill penalties, leader, can move up and down the line up if necessary, hits, shoots, and can chip in offensively.

With Miller, he just happens to check all the necessary boxes, plus has been putting up a lot of points. Not to mention, you can probably get Vancouver to retain a bit, meaning you arent destroying your team's cap for next season (and creating a 4 month window)

 

 

 

[Long live the King]

5 minutes ago, josh said:

Miller would be 2nd on the team in shots. Behind Kreider.

Kreider 2nd in the league in PP goals (3 ahead of the next guy). He's 4th in the league in goals.

Over the past 2 seasons, even with COVID, Zibanejad is 6th overall in goals, behind Matthews, Draisaitl, Ovechkin, Pasta and McDavid.

Over the past 2 seasons Panarin has been an MVP candidate and is 5th in points while missing time due to allegations and injuries.

You have 2 of the top offensive prospects in the league.

They have other offensive players and prospects that don't see PP time or even make the team.

 

The scoring isn't what needs to be added. All along the need has been a big, physical 3C that can win draws, kill penalties, leader, can move up and down the line up if necessary, hits, shoots, and can chip in offensively.

With Miller, he just happens to check all the necessary boxes, plus has been putting up a lot of points. Not to mention, you can probably get Vancouver to retain a bit, meaning you arent destroying your team's cap for next season (and creating a 4 month window)

Screams Boone Jenner.  Too bad he loves Columbus for some reason.

[The Dude]

6 minutes ago, josh said:

Miller would be 2nd on the team in shots. Behind Kreider.

Kreider 2nd in the league in PP goals (3 ahead of the next guy). He's 4th in the league in goals.

Over the past 2 seasons, even with COVID, Zibanejad is 6th overall in goals, behind Matthews, Draisaitl, Ovechkin, Pasta and McDavid.

Over the past 2 seasons Panarin has been an MVP candidate and is 5th in points while missing time due to allegations and injuries.

You have 2 of the top offensive prospects in the league.

They have other offensive players and prospects that don't see PP time or even make the team.

 

The scoring isn't what needs to be added. All along the need has been a big, physical 3C that can win draws, kill penalties, leader, can move up and down the line up if necessary, hits, shoots, and can chip in offensively.

With Miller, he just happens to check all the necessary boxes, plus has been putting up a lot of points. Not to mention, you can probably get Vancouver to retain a bit, meaning you arent destroying your team's cap for next season (and creating a 4 month window)

 

 

 

I seriously don't think Miller comes cheap. You're atleast giving up Lundkvist or Jones. I mean, I'm ok with that (as long as there's retention and something else coming back), but I don't think many would be on board. Is he coming with an extension past next season? Can they afford him if he is?

He certainly checks a lot of boxes (although I always think people over rate his hitting and grit). I don't think the Rangers would be willing to deal what it would take to get him. Many teams would have interest.

Also, I see him more as a scoring threat though. You're touting him as if your name was Pete. His D was always suspect. I don't remember him sticking at center, so I don't recall him being good on draws. 

Is he centering the 3rd line or playing RW somewhere in the lineup?

Just remembering.  Wasn't there some kind of attitude problem with Miller?  Am I mixing him up with Hayes? He was moved quickly from Tampa, now possibly Vancouver? For a complete player, he certainly can't stick with a team. 

 

 

 

[jsm7302]

Miller for Miller.

[Keirik]

51 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How many Goodrows do they need? Goodrow, Rooney and a mix of Kappo, Zibanejad,  Kreider, Hunt and all the other star players are enough for the PK. 

They need someone that shoots the puck, more than they need grinders. A guy to plant on the Zibanejad RW is the need. This puts Mike Hunt back where he belongs on the 4th line or scratched. 

 

 

Josh was responding to my thought to get Jt Miller. JT Miller  is not Goodrow at all.  Miller is a 65-75 point player. 

[Sod16]

We can't afford J.T. Miller cap-wise after this year.   End of story.

A stop gap measure on the second goalie is fine for this season.  We can fix that long term in the off season, when many more No. 2s will be potentially available.

[josh]

2 minutes ago, Sod16 said:

We can't afford J.T. Miller cap-wise after this year.   End of story.

A stop gap measure on the second goalie is fine for this season.  We can fix that long term in the off season, when many more No. 2s will be potentially available.

They could retain and you have him for 1.5 seasons at <$3m.  He'd have a slightly higher cap hit and Chytil and Nemeth.

[Phil]

Not sure if this was discussed yet or not, but in his weekly hit on the Up in the Blueseats podcast, Brooks said he hopes/expects the Rangers to ask about Jaroslav Halak and Braden Holtby. He also expects the Rangers and Georgiev to part ways to let him find his game with another NHL club.

[josh]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Not sure if this was discussed yet or not, but in his weekly hit on the Up in the Blueseats podcast, Brooks said he hopes/expects the Rangers to ask about Jaroslav Halak and Braden Holtby. He also expects the Rangers and Georgiev to part ways to let him find his game with another NHL club.

wonder where he got that idea.

 

  

On 11/21/2021 at 10:06 PM, Keirik said:

If the Canucks continue to falter and be out of it by the mid point, I’d seriously look at seeing what it takes to bring JT Miller back. Wins faceoffs and has another year at 5.25m which fits in nicely. Hell you might be able to convince Halak to waive his NTC and have a good backup as well. 

   I get that it means the end of Strome but it also buys us another year of affordability and solves a faceoff problem as well from a guy that I think plays more RW these days (which we also need lol). 

 

[RichieNextel305]

Halak was the guy I wanted them to sign this summer to backup Shesterkin. I’d be A-Ok with that.

[Cash or Czech]

I think it's a combo of Georgiev being bad and the defense being bad.

Yes, Shesterkin bails us out. His high danger save % is .849% versus Georgiev's .722%.

Shesterkin's scoring chance save % is .890%, Georgiev's is .859%. 

Shesterkin has faced 73 of high danger scoring situations this season, or .09 per minute. Georgiev has faced 18, for an average of .06 per minute. If anything, we're playing "better" with Georgiev in net and preventing high danger chances.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Xander