Rangers Draft [LW] Alexis Lafreniere in 1st Rd. (1st) Pick

[josh]

I get that, and I don't disagree. I've been on the "fire Quinn" train for months now specifically because I don't think he's getting enough out of young players who mean the most to the franchise long-term. Yes, he's turned Buch and Strome and others into fine NHLers, and deserves credit for that, but those guys have much shorter career windows and mean significantly less relative to Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, and Lafreniere.

 

But Lafreniere looks absolutely awful no matter what he's been asked to do and regardless of his line mates. Both things can be true at once.

 

Kakko is on pace for 8 goals and 11 points in 49 games. He's actually regressed in P/GP from this season (0.23) to last (0.35). These players weren't drafted because they get "good looks" or to see marginal year-to-year improvement. They were taken for their apparent game-breaking abilities that have yet to translate in either case.

 

To call it concerning would be a massive understatement. It's terrifying.

 

I think these posts go together. And I agree.

 

Saying we should send him t junior or AHL doesn't help the problem. As you mentioned, they have a #1 and #2 that have both regressed.

[Sharpshooter]

I know New Jersey is rather mediocre, but Hughes has 38 points in 97 GP. Are the Devils worried about him? Although it's still more production than we're getting from Lafreniere and Kakko, so I don't know if that's a great comparison necessarily. But, he's not really blowing the doors down either.

[Morphinity 2.0]

I know New Jersey is rather mediocre, but Hughes has 38 points in 97 GP. Are the Devils worried about him? Although it's still more production than we're getting from Lafreniere and Kakko, so I don't know if that's a great comparison necessarily. But, he's not really blowing the doors down either.

 

They should be. He stinks too.

[Phil]

I think these posts go together. And I agree.

 

Saying we should send him t junior or AHL doesn't help the problem. As you mentioned, they have a #1 and #2 that have both regressed.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what the solution is on Lafreniere, but the fact Kakko regressed despite "looking better" should be like a volcanic eruption under Quinn's seat right now. It's insane that the team is looking at back-to-back top-of-class talents, and neither of them are worth a hill of beans in the scoring column. That screams coaching problem.

[Morphinity 2.0]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the solution is on Lafreniere, but the fact Kakko regressed despite "looking better" should be like a volcanic eruption under Quinn's seat right now. It's insane that the team is looking at back-to-back top-of-class talents, and neither of them are worth a hill of beans in the scoring column. That screams coaching problem.

 

100%

 

They need to get these two going and realize at least some of their potential.

[Sharpshooter]

I really hope it's something that JD and Gorton really take a look at in the offseason. Quinn is Gorton's guy and JD wasn't here to have a say in any of it Do you want Quinn back and risking the exact same issues? I could totally see them giving him another year with Lafreniere, though, just a feeling. I don't necessarily blame Quinn for every single problem, but all of this is not a good look at all. We see what a new voice did for the defense and PK. Maybe a new voice is needed for these young forwards and the offense in general.

[Pete]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the solution is on Lafreniere, but the fact Kakko regressed despite "looking better" should be like a volcanic eruption under Quinn's seat right now. It's insane that the team is looking at back-to-back top-of-class talents, and neither of them are worth a hill of beans in the scoring column. That screams coaching problem.

 

The box car stats regressed, but the analytics are light years different and PDO suggests Kakko is just not getting bounces.

 

Am eager to see if year 3 is the year he puts it all together.

[Phil]

The box car stats regressed, but the analytics are light years different and PDO suggests Kakko is just not getting bounces.

 

Am eager to see if year 3 is the year he puts it all together.

 

For sure, and that's completely reflective in him "looking better."

 

It just blows, because we're already talking new contract in year three and there just hasn't been much there in tangible results.

[Pete]

For sure, and that's completely reflective in him "looking better."

 

It just blows, because we're already talking new contract in year three and there just hasn't been much there in tangible results.

 

Gotcha. Yes, in this case the fancy stats support the eyeball test.

[LindG1000]

For sure, and that's completely reflective in him "looking better."

 

It just blows, because we're already talking new contract in year three and there just hasn't been much there in tangible results.

 

I can't imagine a better spot to be in than "unlucky and highly talented guy hasn't got the boxcar numbers to justify high contract value".

 

Has the potential to be one of the best bang-for-your-buck non-ELCs in the game if the bounces start coming for him.

[Dunny]

Well, I get the fancy stats support his improvement, and that, that matches the eyes, however, that's all shit away from the puck, or at least away from the opposing net.

 

He doesn't have the skills that were advertised. There's nothing smooth about him, and he's probably maxed out his skating at league average. He plays with Artemi Panarin and Ryan Strome and has TWO assists. Luck doesn't tell the whole story.

[BrooksBurner]

We really need to consider that Lafreniere and Kakko do not get meaningful PP time. Confidence can wane for anyone when they aren't putting the puck in the net but kids even moreso. There is zero opportunity for them to get a couple of goals on the PP to maybe snowball some confidence that could carry over to 5v5 play.

 

The PP time they get is garbage time without any time to set up and do anything.

[Stephen]

We really need to consider that Lafreniere and Kakko do not get meaningful PP time. Confidence can wane for anyone when they aren't putting the puck in the net but kids even more so. There is zero opportunity for them to get a couple of goals on the PP to maybe snowball some confidence that could carry over to 5v5 play.

 

The PP time they get is garbage time without any time to set up and do anything.

 

That's because Quinn is getting pretty predictable when allocating PP time. He doesn't give a lot of time to the second unit, thus making the PP a little predictable. Put in Laf for a couple of shifts with Strome and Kakko, he's the first overall pick for a reason. USE HIM PROPERLY!

[Stephen]

I really hope it's something that JD and Gorton really take a look at in the offseason. Quinn is Gorton's guy and JD wasn't here to have a say in any of it Do you want Quinn back and risking the exact same issues? I could totally see them giving him another year with Lafreniere, though, just a feeling. I don't necessarily blame Quinn for every single problem, but all of this is not a good look at all. We see what a new voice did for the defense and PK. Maybe a new voice is needed for these young forwards and the offense in general.

 

That's what I've been saying: Quinn was hired by Gorton before JD came back to New York. If Quinn is gone, it's going to have to come from the top because Quinn has a friendly relationship with Gorton. A new voice is needed in the locker room, it feels like the players don't give a 100% for him due to how his messaging might have gotten stale and teams have adapted to how he randomly changes lines instead of pure scheme moves. Carolina proved that last season in the qualifiers.

[Sharpshooter]

That's what I've been saying: Quinn was hired by Gorton before JD came back to New York. If Quinn is gone, it's going to have to come from the top because Quinn has a friendly relationship with Gorton. A new voice is needed in the locker room, it feels like the players don't give a 100% for him due to how his messaging might have gotten stale and teams have adapted to how he randomly changes lines instead of pure scheme moves. Carolina proved that last season in the qualifiers.

 

Yes. I feel a change needs to be made, of course, but I fear it's not going to happen anytime soon. A good time would be in the offseason while there are still some solid coaching candidates available. If they wait another year, it may dry up. Although, they could just go with Knoblauch and hire from within.

[Pete]

Well, I get the fancy stats support his improvement, and that, that matches the eyes, however, that's all shit away from the puck, or at least away from the opposing net.

 

He doesn't have the skills that were advertised. There's nothing smooth about him, and he's probably maxed out his skating at league average. He plays with Artemi Panarin and Ryan Strome and has TWO assists. Luck doesn't tell the whole story.

 

He's spent as much time with Chytil, Laf and COVID as he has with Panarin and Strome.

 

His point totals need to be considered with context.

[Phil]

He's spent as much time with Chytil, Laf and COVID as he has with Panarin and Strome.

 

His point totals need to be considered with context.

 

They are. He's been next to Panarin and Strome for weeks. He has three points (all goals) in his last fifteen games.

 

He went pointless in back-to-back games in which the Rangers out-scored the Flyers 14-4. He was pointless, again, when they beat the Flyers 8-3 a week later.

 

This isn't just "bad luck," it's a complete lack of impact. His PDO is 98. He's not that unlucky.

[LindG1000]

They are. He's been next to Panarin and Strome for weeks. He has three points (all goals) in his last fifteen games.

 

He went pointless in back-to-back games in which the Rangers out-scored the Flyers 14-4. He was pointless, again, when they beat the Flyers 8-3 a week later.

 

This isn't just "bad luck," it's a complete lack of impact. His PDO is 98. He's not that unlucky.

 

His PDO is 98 and that includes the near-unsustainable low on-ice shooting percentage. He's been quite unlucky - maybe a little bit a testament to his chucker tendencies.

 

Meanwhile, his Fenwick is 14 points better, his Corsi For is 12 points better, and adjusted for season length, he's on track to be on ice for twelve goals fewer in the same amount of games with no meaningful change to his ice time.

 

It's coming.

[Blue Heaven]

The man-child has had everything flipped upside down for the last year....Junior season ended, Covid hits, most likely didn't train as hard b/c everything was closed during Covid, had to wait 4 extra months to get drafted. Then got a "remote" training program, instead of having in-person training sessions, then had to wait till January for a 2 week training camp w/o preseason games. Then the season starts, doesn't easily produce anything and everyone wants to jump ship on him. Everything that has happened since March 2020 should be taken with a grain of salt. At least he is getting his feet wet in a shortened season that is probably a throwaway season for the Rangers, and next season when their should be at least more of a normalcy regarding training camp and knowing what it takes to play in the NHL we should then reevaluate whether he sucks or not.

[Phil]

His PDO is 98 and that includes the near-unsustainable low on-ice shooting percentage. He's been quite unlucky - maybe a little bit a testament to his chucker tendencies.

 

Meanwhile, his Fenwick is 14 points better, his Corsi For is 12 points better, and adjusted for season length, he's on track to be on ice for twelve goals fewer in the same amount of games with no meaningful change to his ice time.

 

It's coming.

 

If he were a chucker, his shots would be significant despite the poor shooting percentage. They're not. He has 63. Kreider (who is shooting at 22%) has twelve more (75). Some luck you create. He doesn't. Which is why the goals never go in.

 

And I'll say again: I don't care about goals against. I care about goals for. He was drafted to be Rick, not Riley Nash.

[Blue Heaven]

They are. He's been next to Panarin and Strome for weeks. He has three points (all goals) in his last fifteen games.

 

He went pointless in back-to-back games in which the Rangers out-scored the Flyers 14-4. He was pointless, again, when they beat the Flyers 8-3 a week later.

 

This isn't just "bad luck," it's a complete lack of impact. His PDO is 98. He's not that unlucky.

 

Actually, Lafrieniere got an assist on Chytil's goal to make it 9-0, and he also got an assist on Chytil's goal to make it 8-3. He actually scored the same amount of points (2), as #20 during those 3 same games.

[BrooksBurner]

Actually, Lafrieniere got an assist on Chytil's goal to make it 9-0, and he also got an assist on Chytil's goal to make it 8-3. He actually scored the same amount of points (2), as #20 during those 3 same games.

 

I think he's talking about Kakko.

[Blue Heaven]

I think he's talking about Kakko.

 

I see that now, had to back track to see how we went from LAF to Kakko in the LAF thread.

[Phil]

Yeah, sorry — they're kind of intertwined into the same conversation.

 

Lafreniere's been a little better, but it still feels like he's largely absent in even their blowout games, too.

[Sharpshooter]

Yeah, his total absence in a lot of games is crazy. I get it that he's 19 and playing in the league for the first time. But, while you don't expect him to set the league on fire, the number of games where you don't even know if he's playing or not is really alarming. I didn't expect 60 points or something, but I expected to see someone more involved and engaged at least some of the time.