Vodka Drunkenski Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Yes, that's the general rule I've come to notice in the past six months. If the player is going to be 28 or older by the time the Rangers are "ready to compete" then he must go now. For a late 1st rounder. This isn't based on age alone, type of player and salary come into play as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 This isn't based on age alone, type of player and salary come into play as well.What type of player is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 What type of player is he? Type of player meaning his attributes. He is slow, fast, physical, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The re-signing of Hayes is really quite simple for me, to dispose of him you need another C, either existing or targeted, that you think is going to be better than him. I don't see that candidate. I don't think Howden is that guy, I don't think Andersson is that guy and I think Chytil is a winger. So, who is the guy that supplants Hayes in 2-4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The re-signing of Hayes is really quite simple for me, to dispose of him you need another C, either existing or targeted, that you think is going to be better than him. I don't see that candidate. I don't think Howden is that guy, I don't think Andersson is that guy and I think Chytil is a winger. So, who is the guy that supplants Hayes in 2-4 years? This on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slobberknocker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The next thread discusses moving Staal. I'd rather do that and resign Hayes. I think the guy is blossoming now. I don't believe this is a one year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Type of player meaning his attributes. He is slow, fast, physical, etc Right, so his game isn't dependent on speed and he doesn't use his body as a missile, so 30 years old for him isn't like 30 for Callahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The re-signing of Hayes is really quite simple for me, to dispose of him you need another C, either existing or targeted, that you think is going to be better than him. I don't see that candidate. I don't think Howden is that guy, I don't think Andersson is that guy and I think Chytil is a winger. So, who is the guy that supplants Hayes in 2-4 years? Howden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Howden Sure, if you think Travis Zajac is a 2nd liner...Probably not, on a contending team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Sure, if you think Travis Zajac is a 2nd liner...Probably not, on a contending team. Good comparable. I like Howden but I don't see him producing offense consistently like Hayes has shown he can since January of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Right, so his game isn't dependent on speed and he doesn't use his body as a missile, so 30 years old for him isn't like 30 for Callahan. Yes but will he get slower with age while the game continues to get faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Good comparable. I like Howden but I don't see him producing offense consistently like Hayes has shown he can since January of last season. Yea, I think that's the great point...Hayes has gotten better as the team around him has gotten worse. He's being asked to do more, and raising his game. Look, he may be frustrating to watch at times, but show me a player outside the top 10 in the league who's not frustrating? You can literally dissect anyone if you watch them every night. Check out Adrian Dater's Twitter where he's live tweeting games and saying MacKinnon doesn't shoot enough...GTFOH. Same goes for other stars. Burns doesn't hit the net PK Subban can't defend Thorton doesn't shoot Ovechkin doesn't pass, can't defend Patrick Kane is soft Gaudreau doesn't shoot enough The list goes on and on of fan complaints about players they watch nightly, unless your name is McDavid or Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Yes but will he get slower with age while the game continues to get faster OK, and like I said, he's not fast now and his game doesn't depend on being fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Yes but will he get slower with age while the game continues to get faster Now I'm not saying that Hayes is Jagr in any way, shape, or form, but he did show that if you are able to shield properly and have the hockey IQ, you can still produce at an older age without speed. Hayes protects the puck REALLY well. And his game isn't predicated on speed. I think he can still be relevant, if he stays in shape, well into his 30's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Yea, I think that's the great point...Hayes has gotten better as the team around him has gotten worse. He's being asked to do more, and raising his game. Look, he may be frustrating to watch at times, but show me a player outside the top 10 in the league who's not frustrating? You can literally dissect anyone if you watch them every night. Check out Adrian Dater's Twitter where he's live tweeting games and saying MacKinnon doesn't shoot enough...GTFOH. Same goes for other stars. Burns doesn't hit the net PK Subban can't defend Thorton doesn't shoot Ovechkin doesn't pass, can't defend Patrick Kane is soft Gaudreau doesn't shoot enough The list goes on and on of fan complaints about players they watch nightly, unless your name is McDavid or Crosby. I think this is the crux of the issue. We watch them on a daily basis and see all their warts. Other teams will only get glimpses in comparison and they'll see the strengths. Hayes, if he hits the open market, is going to command a lot of attention just because they see the strengths first whereas some of our forum here can only see his flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The re-signing of Hayes is really quite simple for me, to dispose of him you need another C, either existing or targeted, that you think is going to be better than him. I don't see that candidate. I don't think Howden is that guy, I don't think Andersson is that guy and I think Chytil is a winger. So, who is the guy that supplants Hayes in 2-4 years? Namestnikov? If the teams not competing, to me, it doesnt matter who you throw there, be it Namestnikov, Howden, Chytil or some Spooner type throw in you get via trade. The team needs to improve, so I don?t see the point in maintaining mediocrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodka Drunkenski Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 OK, and like I said, he's not fast now and his game doesn't depend on being fast. IMO players like him are starting to regress quicker than others because of the speed of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunny Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Namestnikov? If the teams not competing, to me, it doesnt matter who you throw there, be it Namestnikov, Howden, Chytil or some Spooner type throw in you get via trade. The team needs to improve, so I don’t see the point in maintaining mediocrity They don't need to improve up the middle, they're set there for 5 years. They need to desperately improve on the backend or this rebuild is never going to mean anything. Regardless, there's an argument to be made for moving Hayes but my issue is just dumping a PAG, defensively responsible, 26 YO, Centerman for what amounts to flotsam. Getting the 27th overall pick back for Kevin Hayes at this point would be a travesty with the year he's having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Namestnikov? If the teams not competing, to me, it doesnt matter who you throw there, be it Namestnikov, Howden, Chytil or some Spooner type throw in you get via trade. The team needs to improve, so I don?t see the point in maintaining mediocrity70 point players are mediocre now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Sure, if you think Travis Zajac is a 2nd liner...Probably not, on a contending team. Good comparable. I like Howden but I don't see him producing offense consistently like Hayes has shown he can since January of last season. I don't think we have seen enough of Howden to say he isn't going to produce. Who knows, given more ice time and more time in the NHL, he could develop into a scoring forward. The scouting reports on Howdens offense are pretty good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Namestnikov? If the teams not competing, to me, it doesnt matter who you throw there, be it Namestnikov, Howden, Chytil or some Spooner type throw in you get via trade. The team needs to improve, so I don’t see the point in maintaining mediocrity I can't stand Namestnikov here. I was hoping he would be great offensively, but he hasn't been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I don't think we have seen enough of Howden to say he isn't going to produce. Who knows, given more ice time and more time in the NHL, he could develop into a scoring forward. The scouting reports on Howdens offense are pretty good as well.I just really don't see it in his game. Not dynamic enough to be in top 6. But he doesn't need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I don't think we have seen enough of Howden to say he isn't going to produce. Who knows, given more ice time and more time in the NHL, he could develop into a scoring forward. The scouting reports on Howdens offense are pretty good as well. Howden's offensive ceiling is like 45 points. Maybe he can be a 20-20 guy, but that type of player needs to be your 3C unless you have just incredible wing talent. After that little run with Vesey, Howden has been totally invisible offensively. Tangent but...the difference between Howden and other 20 y.o., like Lias, is that Howden doesn't have much physical maturing to do. He's 6'2, 195 right now, I don't think he's ever going to be playing at 220. Lias, on the other hand, is the same weight, but 3 inches shorter, so he's either going to drop a bit of weight or still has to grow into it. That's kind of a subtle difference, but just looking at the two...Howden looks like he fits in with NHLers, Lias still looks like a kid out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They don't need to improve up the middle, they're set there for 5 years. They need to desperately improve on the backend or this rebuild is never going to mean anything. Regardless, there's an argument to be made for moving Hayes but my issue is just dumping a PAG, defensively responsible, 26 YO, Centerman for what amounts to flotsam. Getting the 27th overall pick back for Kevin Hayes at this point would be a travesty with the year he's having. Fair enough. Just think there’s too much else that needs to be added to be relevant within the next 5 seasons. Defense, wingers, then goaltending. I’d much rather package guys to upgrade someone who can have an immediate impact (this or next season and beyond), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravesy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Howden's offensive ceiling is like 45 points. Maybe he can be a 20-20 guy, but that type of player needs to be your 3C unless you have just incredible wing talent. After that little run with Vesey, Howden has been totally invisible offensively. Apart from a beautiful assist on the rush in the last game we played? I agree he's tailed off a bit (understandable) and he doesn't look like a dynamic offensive player, but at the same time he's the 10th best rookie in scoring in the league and has 14 points in 32. That's a 36 point pace. In his rookie year, playing for a shit team. Sounds a bit premature to place his ceiling at 45 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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