article: Rangers, Shattenkirk at Unintended Crossroads

[lefty9]

You don?t think Pionk would be on the Leafs? I do.

I don't think he would of ever had the chance to play for the leafs,he got the chance with the rangers because of the fire sale

[Vodka Drunkenski]

I'm no Hank fanboy but come on.. He's been absolutely superb, as good as he's ever been.

 

Haters will always be haters

[Giacomin]

I guess I'm in the minority, but Pionk has played well as a pro and is a legit NHL dman. A keeper for the Ranger's rebuild, as far as I'm concerned. Toronto would take him in a heartbeat. He is miles ahead of Jake Gardiner, who was a complete mess in the playoffs, blowing key games single-handedly. If traded, Pionk would likely work his way into the top 4 quickly, on most teams not named Nashville.

 

Watching how he QB's the PP reveals quite a bit. His puck mgmt, his movement up top, the quick decisions, passes and shots are all at a very high level and effective. Those saying the rest of the league thinks Pionk an AHLer, where do you get this? I've heard nothing but information to the contrary. I can no longer remember the source, but a reputable NHL insider said more than 20 teams had strong interest in Pionk. Since then, Pionk has grown in stature, not shrunk. He is probably the only RHD on the team that would not be traded. We really would not be selling high on him either because he keeps taking large strides in his improvement.

 

This is one of those debates where people who know hockey here, disagree with me. The same people who see Z the way I do, or on the flipside, Shatty. I can't explain the divergence. So, we'll have to agree to disagree and let time be the factor to see how his game/career plays out in the next couple of years.

[siddious]

I personally think he?s looked like our best defenseman this year which, granted may not be saying much.

 

I love his game.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Fatfrancesa]

hank has been fantastic. Building you team around the goalie as the highest paid player is the problem. Hasn’t worked in the cap era and Montreal is next to find out. However none of this is hanks fault. His play has been amazing,the rest of the team not so much.

[Pete]

I guess I'm in the minority, but Pionk has played well as a pro and is a legit NHL dman. A keeper for the Ranger's rebuild, as far as I'm concerned. Toronto would take him in a heartbeat. He is miles ahead of Jake Gardiner, who was a complete mess in the playoffs, blowing key games single-handedly. If traded, Pionk would likely work his way into the top 4 quickly, on most teams not named Nashville.

 

Watching how he QB's the PP reveals quite a bit. His puck mgmt, his movement up top, the quick decisions, passes and shots are all at a very high level and effective. Those saying the rest of the league thinks Pionk an AHLer, where do you get this? I've heard nothing but information to the contrary. I can no longer remember the source, but a reputable NHL insider said more than 20 teams had strong interest in Pionk. Since then, Pionk has grown in stature, not shrunk. He is probably the only RHD on the team that would not be traded. We really would not be selling high on him either because he keeps taking large strides in his improvement.

 

This is one of those debates where people who know hockey here, disagree with me. The same people who see Z the way I do, or on the flipside, Shatty. I can't explain the divergence. So, we'll have to agree to disagree and let time be the factor to see how his game/career plays out in the next couple of years.

Explain how he's miles ahead of Gardiner?

 

Gardiner's Corsi is better, and he's got a more favorable PDO than Pionk's (who's PDO shows he's more lucky than good). Their scoring is even, as is their TOI, and they both play with an anchor.

 

The only player in their top 4 Pionk has a prayer of replacing is Zaitsev who's would probably be a decent AHLer himself.

[BrooksBurner]

We can talk about his bad advanced stats, but amongst defensemen Neal Pionk is 21st in points and 10th in primary points. He is producing at a similar clip offensively across last season and this season. It is turning into a track record more than just dumb luck.

[Pete]

We can talk about his bad advanced stats, but amongst defensemen Neal Pionk is 21st in points and 10th in primary points. He is producing at a similar clip offensively across last season and this season. It is turning into a track record more than just dumb luck.

OK, so what's you're stance? That's hes's a legit #1D? If not, what do those offensive numbers looks with less ice time?

 

Let's establish a baseline for your argument before moving forward.

[Giacomin]

Explain how he's miles ahead of Gardiner?

 

Gardiner's Corsi is better, and he's got a more favorable PDO than Pionk's (who's PDO shows he's more lucky than good). Their scoring is even, as is their TOI, and they both play with an anchor.

 

The only player in their top 4 Pionk has a prayer of replacing is Zaitsev who's would probably be a decent AHLer himself.

 

I watched a lot of Toronto last year and most of their playoffs. Gardiner was truly unimpressive in every way. During the playoffs he was not scoring, but he was making defensive mistakes consistently and a few became fatal. He was the goat, in the old meaning of the word.

 

As a smaller dman, Pionk will take a little longer to put it all together, but his trajectory continues upward. I see a lot of growth in Pionk that I did not see over the last few years with Gardiner, Maybe Gardiner has had a much better season this year, I have not seen Toronto very much so far. I'm not a fan of corsi as an accurate measurement of dman, and particularly in Pionkl's case. I know what I am seeing with him and like his future here. BTW, Pionk is extending Marc Staal's utility on this team. We are going to have to let time resolve this one.

[BrooksBurner]

OK, so what's you're stance? That's hes's a legit #1D? If not, what do those offensive numbers looks with less ice time?

 

Let's establish a baseline for your argument before moving forward.

 

He has a lot of offensive talent and puck carrying skills. Do I think he can produce offensively like a top pairing? Yes, because he has and he is still young. Do I think he is a guy I trust defensively against other team's top lines? No...not yet anyway. Given his age, I think he has earned the right to show he can improve in that aspect rather than "sell high" based on a couple of advanced stats. My eyes show me a confident player who can improve in the parts of his game that suck.

 

It's not easy playing huge minutes agaimst top players this early in a player's career. Ask Skjei the difference between third pairing and first pairing responsibilities.

[Pete]

I watched a lot of Toronto last year and most of their playoffs. Gardiner was truly unimpressive in every way. During the playoffs he was not scoring, but he was making defensive mistakes consistently and a few became fatal. He was the goat, in the old meaning of the word.

 

As a smaller dman, Pionk will take a little longer to put it all together, but his trajectory continues upward. I see a lot of growth in Pionk that I did not see over the last few years with Gardiner, Maybe Gardiner has had a much better season this year, I have not seen Toronto very much so far. I'm not a fan of corsi as an accurate measurement of dman, and particularly in Pionkl's case. I know what I am seeing with him and like his future here. BTW, Pionk is extending Marc Staal's utility on this team. We are going to have to let time resolve this one.

So you're basing this off a few playoff games. Got it.

[Pete]

He has a lot of offensive talent and puck carrying skills. Do I think he can produce offensively like a top pairing? Yes, because he has and he is still young. Do I think he is a guy I trust defensively against other team's top lines? No...not yet anyway. Given his age, I think he has earned the right to show he can improve in that aspect rather than "sell high" based on a couple of advanced stats. My eyes show me a confident player who can improve in the parts of his game that suck.

 

It's not easy playing huge minutes agaimst top players this early in a player's career. Ask Skjei the difference between third pairing and first pairing responsibilities.

Thanks. This is fair. I don't agree that he'd ever be top pair on a competitive team, but maybe we'll see.

[Giacomin]

So you're basing this off a few playoff games. Got it.

 

No, I think I saw all their playoff games and somewhere close to 20 games of their's, last year. I'd also seem Gardiner before that, I'm not a fan and would not want him here even for a mid round pick.

 

Pionk makes quick decisions, commands the offense, is a swift skater, smart shooter, is not afraid to be tough and physical defensively. He takes good angles and is good with his stick. He keeps getting better at everything.

[Scott]

No, I think I saw all their playoff games and somewhere close to 20 games of their's, last year. I'd also seem Gardiner before that, I'm not a fan and would not want him here even for a mid round pick.

 

Pionk makes quick decisions, commands the offense, is a swift skater, smart shooter, is not afraid to be tough and physical defensively. He takes good angles and is good with his stick. He keeps getting better at everything.

 

Tough and physical, hardly the two words I would use to describe him. You lost me there.

[Pete]

No, I think I saw all their playoff games and somewhere close to 20 games of their's, last year. I'd also seem Gardiner before that, I'm not a fan and would not want him here even for a mid round pick.

 

Pionk makes quick decisions, commands the offense, is a swift skater, smart shooter, is not afraid to be tough and physical defensively. He takes good angles and is good with his stick. He keeps getting better at everything.

And despite all this, he's nightly on the wrong side of the shot and GA ledger.... So strange.

 

Also would not call him tough or physical. Not by a long shot.

[Giacomin]

I meant for his size. His teammates even say he is tenacious and very willing to bang bodies on D and along the boards.

[Pete]

Yeah? Where did they say this?

 

Before you look that up, when's the last time a guy called another guy on his team a wimp?

 

Come on Giac. You're better than this.

[4EverRangerFrank]

I?m a Pionk fan. Give him time.

[Scott]

Time doesn't lead to toughness and physicality. Other skills sure, he looks like a little kid out there. No D but some offensive flashes.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[CBrowningPI]

Pionk is tied for 2nd on the team in hits with McLeod and Kreider (54). Skjei is No.1 with 66. I don't know what other standard you can use for a defensman and Physicality.

 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

[Pete]

They're Callahits or Clutterhits.

[josh]

I’m still skeptical. He’s been great offensively, and maybe the defense will come along, but I don’t see a top pair guy in him. If a team wants to trades assets for him, like he is a potential top pair dman, yes. And I’ll eat crow if he proves me wrong.

 

I like Deangelo more in the depth defenseman dept. Shattenkirk can play the pp. we aren’t “losing much”.

[ThirtyONE]

I’m just not sure why if a guy isn’t projected to be a top pair dman, he has to be traded...

[Giacomin]

I’m just not sure why if a guy isn’t projected to be a top pair dman, he has to be traded...

 

Me neither, nor denigrated as an AHLer. I think he is a top 4 player now. If we look at all the RHDs in the NHL, he may not be in the top 32, but he is clearly in that next group and probably towards the top.

 

He is also young, cheap, fast, scores points, is ascending and has a great attitude. Great teammate, great effort and keeps learning/progressing at a good clip. I'd take him over Faulk or Pesce, to address another thread. He's better than any righty on Toronto. Take a look at other teams besides Anaheim, Tampa and Nash and a couple of others.

[Giacomin]

I’m still skeptical. He’s been great offensively, and maybe the defense will come along, but I don’t see a top pair guy in him. If a team wants to trades assets for him, like he is a potential top pair dman, yes. And I’ll eat crow if he proves me wrong.

 

I like Deangelo more in the depth defenseman dept. Shattenkirk can play the pp. we aren’t “losing much”.

 

Screw Shatty, and I like the person. Pionk is already better, both offensively, defensively and on special teams. He has supplanted him and is our #1 RHD and on the first PP at 23 y/o. Trade Shatty! He's superfluous with Pionk and ADA.