Pete Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The union environment here is extremely different than in other countries. Unions are essentially legalized Mobsters in the US. And minimum wages? What are you talking about?I have this argument at almost every holiday with my family. It's funny how my super-conservative uncle is so pro-union, but it's because he was a cop and my aunt is a teacher. I'm very liberal but I'm against unions. My brother is pro-union and I argue with them all the time. What I've basically narrowed down my argument to is that fundamentally, and idealistically, unions are a great idea. Unfortunately, in reality, there are just a lot of people in unionized jobs who only want to do the bare minimum (and my uncle was one of these people before retiring). They are hiding places for people who want to have their weight carried for them. I'm not talking about people who set out to do a certain thing for a profession, and that profession happened to be unionized, I'm talking about the people who are just trying to get into the union itself, because then they are "set". Unions, in reality, can't exist because people are greedy, the owners and the unions. Owners want people to work 60 hours a week because "they're lucky to have a job" and union employees want triple time when they enter the 35th hour of work. (/obvious sensationalism) We have labor laws that protect people now. Unions aren't needed anymore. The only way they would be effective is if you unionized every job in every industry and everyone negotiated collectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba Ba Bluey Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'm a sucker for Twinkies. This sucks. It's gonna be like Zombieland. Dude, multiple stories of people eating people and no more twinkies...This is Zombieland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYR2711 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Is it just me, or did Hostess cakes suck balls anyway? Certain ones were horrible, but who doesnt love twinkies, cup cakes, pies and hoho's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have this argument at almost every holiday with my family. It's funny how my super-conservative uncle is so pro-union, but it's because he was a cop and my aunt is a teacher. I'm very liberal but I'm against unions. My brother is pro-union and I argue with them all the time. What I've basically narrowed down my argument to is that fundamentally, and idealistically, unions are a great idea. Unfortunately, in reality, there are just a lot of people in unionized jobs who only want to do the bare minimum (and my uncle was one of these people before retiring). They are hiding places for people who want to have their weight carried for them. I'm not talking about people who set out to do a certain thing for a profession, and that profession happened to be unionized, I'm talking about the people who are just trying to get into the union itself, because then they are "set". Unions, in reality, can't exist because people are greedy, the owners and the unions. Owners want people to work 60 hours a week because "they're lucky to have a job" and union employees want triple time when they enter the 35th hour of work. (/obvious sensationalism) We have labor laws that protect people now. Unions aren't needed anymore. The only way they would be effective is if you unionized every job in every industry and everyone negotiated collectively. Exactly. Unions were vital during the days of child labor, 16-hour work days, extremely low wages, unfair working conditions, etc. Those rarely exist today. Unions no longer protect workers agaisnt harsh working conditions. They now protect them from proper and necessary disciplinary action. They protect them from working. I'm not really sure why the AFL-CIO needs over $100 billion in assets, just laying around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 There are still some environments were unions serve a purpose, but the way that most are structured today are just terrible and peetie is right, once you are in there is no accountability. IMO unions can still exist, but there needs to be a mass restructuring of how they operate internally. Generally speaking I'm probably anti-union, but not idealistically, just in terms of how they operate today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have this argument at almost every holiday with my family. It's funny how my super-conservative uncle is so pro-union, but it's because he was a cop and my aunt is a teacher. I'm very liberal but I'm against unions. My brother is pro-union and I argue with them all the time. What I've basically narrowed down my argument to is that fundamentally, and idealistically, unions are a great idea. Unfortunately, in reality, there are just a lot of people in unionized jobs who only want to do the bare minimum (and my uncle was one of these people before retiring). They are hiding places for people who want to have their weight carried for them. I'm not talking about people who set out to do a certain thing for a profession, and that profession happened to be unionized, I'm talking about the people who are just trying to get into the union itself, because then they are "set". Unions, in reality, can't exist because people are greedy, the owners and the unions. Owners want people to work 60 hours a week because "they're lucky to have a job" and union employees want triple time when they enter the 35th hour of work. (/obvious sensationalism) We have labor laws that protect people now. Unions aren't needed anymore. The only way they would be effective is if you unionized every job in every industry and everyone negotiated collectively. This might be the most accurate statement you've ever made. And you know how much I hate patting you on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 This might be the most accurate statement you've ever made. And you know how much I hate patting you on the back. That's why I stopped scoring goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick release Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I wish real cooks had unions :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 That's why I stopped scoring goals. I'll write that list in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash or Czech Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I never get the hate Americans seem to have for Unions. A company that goes bancrupt cause it can't survive without paying their employees minimum wages, wasn't that healthy to begin with. I think you're misinformed on the topic. These bread workers aren't making minimum wages. They're making salaries that allow them to live comfortably, plus they get health benefits as well. They're making 2.5x what the minimum wage is. Aside from the fact that the unions got greedy and thought that this unskilled labor warranted more money (even though this work should probably be paid a whole lot less), there were also a plethora of other problems. Overtime, for instance, wasn't being monitored very well and it hurt the company a lot, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I never get the hate Americans seem to have for Unions. A company that goes bancrupt cause it can't survive without paying their employees minimum wages, wasn't that healthy to begin with. 85 years is an ok run. The current executives and unions made it crumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'd be interested in knowing what the union's terms were and what they currently are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Gomez Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 People are going crazy on eBay right now with their products. A box of Twinkies is at a starting bid of $2,500,000, with a buy now for $5,000,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I never get the hate Americans seem to have for Unions. A company that goes bancrupt cause it can't survive without paying their employees minimum wages, wasn't that healthy to begin with. Basically what everyone else said so far about it, but their unions aren't anything like ours. Ours can be tough negotiators, but look like the most reasonable bunch of people in comparison to some of the American unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizz GAWD Lav No Cap FrFr Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 People are going crazy on eBay right now with their products. A box of Twinkies is at a starting bid of $2,500,000, with a buy now for $5,000,000. Yeah they are selling out at my store. It's not like an unopened box of pre-whoever buys them twinkies will be worth something in 50-100 years. I know that they last a long time but yeah, not that long lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonybologna Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Twinkies were supposed to feed the survivors of the apocalypse, how will mankind survive now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuhgeddaboudit Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Read here: http://www.boston.com/business/news/2012/11/19/judge-orders-hostess-mediate-with-union/SzDhwEZx5nYnSaW1TskapI/story.html?camp=fb Twinkies won?t die that easily after all. Hostess Brands Inc. and its second largest union will go into mediation to try and resolve their differences, meaning the company won?t go out of business just yet. The news came Monday after Hostess moved to liquidate and sell off its assets in bankruptcy court citing a crippling strike last week. The bankruptcy judge hearing the case said Monday that the parties haven?t gone through the critical step of mediation and asked the lawyer for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, which has been on strike on Nov. 9, to ask his client, who wasn?t present, if the union would agree to participate. The judge noted that the bakery union went on strike after rejecting the company?s latest contract offer, even though it never filed an objection to it. ??Many people, myself included, have serious questions as to the logic behind this strike,?? said Judge Robert Drain, who heard the case in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York in White Plains, N.Y. ??Not to have gone through that step leaves a huge question mark in this case.?? Hostess and the union are expected to begin the mediation process on Tuesday. Irving, Texas-based Hostess, weighed down by debt, management turmoil, rising labor costs and the changing tastes of America, decided on Friday that it no longer could make it through a conventional Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring. Instead, it?s asked the court for permission to sell assets and go out of business. It?s a far cry from when the maker of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Ho Ho?s filed for bankruptcy in January, its second Chapter 11 filing in less than a decade. The company had hoped to emerge with stronger financials. It brought on CEO Gregory Rayburn as a restructuring expert and was working to renegotiate its contract with labor unions. But Rayburn wasn?t able to reach a deal with the bakery union, which went on strike Nov. 9. Rayburn said that Hostess was already operating on razor thin margins and that the strike was the final blow. The company?s announcement on Friday that it would move to liquidate prompted people across the country to rush to stores and stock up on their favorite Hostess treats. Many businesses reported selling out of Twinkies within hours and the spongy yellow cakes turned up for sale online for hundreds of dollars. Even if Hostess goes out of business, its popular brands will likely find a second life after being snapped up by buyers. The company says several potential buyers have expressed interest in the brands. Although Hostess? sales have been declining in recent years, the company still does about $2.5 billion in business each year. Twinkies along brought in $68 million so far this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Filing bankruptcy allows them to refuse to discuss increase in wages or any increase in benefits during negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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