Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 421

Thread: Targets to Break the Rangers' Homogeneity?

  1. #1
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684

    Targets to Break the Rangers' Homogeneity?

    Let's start with the basics. The current Rangers are fun. They're an elite defensive team — currently 9th in GA/GP and 5th on the PK, among other defensive metrics — with a Norris-caliber No. 1. They also have tremendous offensive talent. They're currently 7th in GF/GP. Moreover, they've built up a cache of promising young prospects that all but ensure an eminently bright future.

    They're also hitting a wall because they're too homogeneous — a ten dollar term that basically means the majority of the team consists of parts/players of the same kind. This composition gives them the ability to blow teams out of the water when they're on, but eliminates their ability to win games (consistently) when Zibanejad and/or Panarin are neutralized, leaving them particularly vulnerable to relentless fore-checking teams like the Islanders, Penguins, and Hurricanes.

    When he was asked about what this Rangers' team is missing during his weekly spot on the Post's 'Up in the Blueseats' podcast, Larry Brooks said this:

    "They're too reliant on skill. They don't have enough grit in their lineup ... I'm not looking for them to get an energy player on their fourth line. I'm not looking for them to get an energy player on their third line. I'm looking for that kind of a player on their top two lines because their top two lines drive the team. They do. They're the team identity. When those guys are rolling, they're a very impressive team ... but when the Rangers run into teams that game plan against Panarin and Zibanejad and take away their time and space, the Rangers don't seem to be able to adapt. They don't have another trick up their sleeve. It's like 'we're going to beat you with talent or we're gonna lose.' It's one or the other. They don't have the ingredients to play another way."

    Quick — spot the lie. Hint: there isn't one.

    He went on to say:

    "Those are the ingredients that Jeff Gorton, John Davidson, Chris Drury — the hierarchy — is going to have to find a way to obtain sooner or later. The sooner the better. I think they have to re-imagine the team because this is a fun team to watch when they're going but that's not always available. They have to add some of that toughness, some of that grit, some of that energy, and it has to be, in my opinion, on the top two lines, because they need another way to beat you. Right now, they can only beat you [one] way."

    Larry's not just right, he's been right, going all the way back to last offseason when he was endlessly banging the drum proposing that the team acquire Josh Anderson from the Blue Jackets. Well, the Habs did, and he leads all first-year players in goals this season and has been a dominant force in their lineup, even in games when he's not scoring. In other words, he's what we wish Kreider would be, but never seems to actually be.

    Anderson is water under the bridge now but the concept of getting someone like him isn't.

    To me, one of the biggest, if not the biggest issues for the front office to tackle this off-season is going to be finding this player. The league isn't teeming with Tom Wilson-types, but anyone they can get who's even close would give them the advantage they need, especially if they expect to go deep in the playoffs, where games get tighter and more physical.

    There are options in free agency to varying degrees of effectiveness and age — Ryan Getzlaf (36), Brandon Saad (28), Nick Foligno (33), Nick Bjugstad (28), among others — but a trade seems more likely. If it were me, I think I'd be looking at moving Buchnevich, who is fourth in scoring (40 points) but performing four points higher (17.4) than his career average (13.8) in shooting percentage.

    Kreider feels like a long-shot to be moved, though crazier things have happened. Chytil is another option, potentially as part of a package.

    Crazy idea? Buchnevich + for either Tkachuk brother. Matt first, Brady second.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mite Division
    MuddyInTheMiddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    225
    Rep Power
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Let's start with the basics. The current Rangers are fun. They're an elite defensive team — currently 9th in GA/GP and 5th on the PK, among other defensive metrics — with a Norris-caliber No. 1. They also have tremendous offensive talent. They're currently 7th in GF/GP. Moreover, they've built up a cache of promising young prospects that all but ensure an eminently bright future.

    They're also hitting a wall because they're too homogeneous — a ten dollar term that basically means the majority of the team consists of parts/players of the same kind. This composition gives them the ability to blow teams out of the water when they're on, but eliminates their ability to win games (consistently) when Zibanejad and/or Panarin are neutralized, leaving them particularly vulnerable to relentless fore-checking teams like the Islanders, Penguins, and Hurricanes.

    When he was asked about what this Rangers' team is missing during his weekly spot on the Post's 'Up in the Blueseats' podcast, Larry Brooks said this:

    "They're too reliant on skill. They don't have enough grit in their lineup ... I'm not looking for them to get an energy player on their fourth line. I'm not looking for them to get an energy player on their third line. I'm looking for that kind of a player on their top two lines because their top two lines drive the team. They do. They're the team identity. When those guys are rolling, they're a very impressive team ... but when the Rangers run into teams that game plan against Panarin and Zibanejad and take away their time and space, the Rangers don't seem to be able to adapt. They don't have another trick up their sleeve. It's like 'we're going to beat you with talent or we're gonna lose.' It's one or the other. They don't have the ingredients to play another way."

    Quick — spot the lie. Hint: there isn't one.

    He went on to say:

    "Those are the ingredients that Jeff Gorton, John Davidson, Chris Drury — the hierarchy — is going to have to find a way to obtain sooner or later. The sooner the better. I think they have to re-imagine the team because this is a fun team to watch when they're going but that's not always available. They have to add some of that toughness, some of that grit, some of that energy, and it has to be, in my opinion, on the top two lines, because they need another way to beat you. Right now, they can only beat you [one] way."

    Larry's not just right, he's been right, going all the way back to last offseason when he was endlessly banging the drum proposing that the team acquire Josh Anderson from the Blue Jackets. Well, the Habs did, and he leads all first-year players in goals this season and has been a dominant force in their lineup, even in games when he's not scoring. In other words, he's what we wish Kreider would be, but never seems to actually be.

    Anderson is water under the bridge now but the concept of getting someone like him isn't.

    To me, one of the biggest, if not the biggest issues for the front office to tackle this off-season is going to be finding this player. The league isn't teeming with Tom Wilson-types, but anyone they can get who's even close would give them the advantage they need, especially if they expect to go deep in the playoffs, where games get tighter and more physical.

    There are options in free agency to varying degrees of effectiveness and age — Ryan Getzlaf (36), Brandon Saad (28), Nick Foligno (33), Nick Bjugstad (28), among others — but a trade seems more likely. If it were me, I think I'd be looking at moving Buchnevich, who is fourth in scoring (40 points) but performing four points higher (17.4) than his career average (13.8) in shooting percentage.

    Kreider feels like a long-shot to be moved, though crazier things have happened. Chytil is another option, potentially as part of a package.

    Crazy idea? Buchnevich + for either Tkachuk brother. Matt first, Brady second.
    Where do we sign?

    The reality however is, not sure what you consider "+", but I don't think you could get either brother for Buchnevich, Jones, and NYR's upcoming first rounder.

  3. #3
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Matt, I'd actually try offloading Kreider in a blockbuster-style deal. So you'd probably go Kreider + Chytil + 1st + prospect for Tkachuk + some offsetting value like a mid-round pick or B-level prospect.

    Brady, I'd try giving them Buch and Chytil in the deal.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mite Division
    MuddyInTheMiddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    225
    Rep Power
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    Matt, I'd actually try offloading Kreider in a blockbuster-style deal. So you'd probably go Kreider + Chytil + 1st + prospect for Tkachuk + some offsetting value like a mid-round pick or B-level prospect.

    Brady, I'd try giving them Buch and Chytil in the deal.
    Your trade proposals are usually on the money or at the very least, in the ballpark.

    I think that both of those proposals that you made, would get a GM fired in Calgary or Ottawa respectively.
    Last edited by MuddyInTheMiddle; 04-23-2021 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #5
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    If something like Kreider, Chytil, 2021 1st and Robertson for Tkachuk and an offsetting B-level something is getting a GM fired in Calgary, that GM is probably getting fired, regardless. That's four first-round picks (equivalent).

    But I'm less interested in coming up with some specific proposal as I am with guys who I think should be targeted. Fan proposals tend to fall in line with what would be accepted in an EA video game, not what tends to actaully happen in real life.

    Both Tkachuks, to me, should be in play. Those teams are in uniquely bad positions and are desperate to figure something out.

    Is Zach Sanford available out of St. Louis? He's locked in on their fourth line pretty tightly with Perron, Tarasenko and Kyrou ahead of him.

    Jordan Greenway has another year on his deal. Seems less likely to be traded (he's in the Wild's top-six again), but can't hurt to ask?
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  6. #6
    Russian Meddling BSBH Veteran
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33,539
    Rep Power
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    If something like Kreider, Chytil, 2021 1st and Robertson for Tkachuk and an offsetting B-level something is getting a GM fired in Calgary, that GM is probably getting fired, regardless. That's four first-round picks (equivalent).

    But I'm less interested in coming up with some specific proposal as I am with guys who I think should be targeted. Both Tkachuks, to me, should be in play. Those teams are in uniquely bad positions and are desperate to figure something out.

    Is Zach Sanford available out of St. Louis? He's locked in on their fourth line pretty tightly with Perron, Tarasenko and Kyrou ahead of him.

    Jordan Greenway has another year on his deal. Seems less likely to be traded (he's in the Wild's top-six again), but can't hurt to ask?
    Honestly, you shouldnt be trading Kreider in this type of deal.

  7. #7
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Honestly, you shouldnt be trading Kreider in this type of deal.
    Probably not, but in a deal for Matt, I would only because you're going to get into dangerous cap territory pretty quickly with both Kreider and Tkachuk on the same team.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  8. #8
    Senior Member Squirt Division
    Capt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    469
    Rep Power
    19
    Chytil, Buch, 2021 1st, choice of Robertson/Jones and Hajek for either brother. I would also target Adam Lowry, even if he just resigned with the Jets. Miles Wood would be another. Neither Wood or Lowry would fill top six roles but both would be good adds and would get substantial ice time.

    Lets also say that Gauthier needs to play. He has shown potential of being the exact type guy they need. He takes some careless penalties but that is easily corrected. Quinn currying him is in my opinion the worst thing he's done this year. I know people have lots of gripes with him. I'm not that negative towards him but I fully disagree with his usage of Gauthier. Gauthier is the one kids who brings a different kind of skill set, one they desperately need, and for some reason he gets no rope. Please lets see what he has these last 9 games.

  9. #9
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Gauthier would be my last option. He has the physical build for what we're talking about, but none of the pedigree/proof he can actually contribute, let alone in a top-six role.

    I'm not trying to throw him away, but he feels like expansion draft fodder right now.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mite Division
    MuddyInTheMiddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    225
    Rep Power
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    If something like Kreider, Chytil, 2021 1st and Robertson for Tkachuk and an offsetting B-level something is getting a GM fired in Calgary, that GM is probably getting fired, regardless. That's four first-round picks (equivalent).

    But I'm less interested in coming up with some specific proposal as I am with guys who I think should be targeted. Fan proposals tend to fall in line with what would be accepted in an EA video game, not what tends to actaully happen in real life.

    Both Tkachuks, to me, should be in play. Those teams are in uniquely bad positions and are desperate to figure something out.

    Is Zach Sanford available out of St. Louis? He's locked in on their fourth line pretty tightly with Perron, Tarasenko and Kyrou ahead of him.

    Jordan Greenway has another year on his deal. Seems less likely to be traded (he's in the Wild's top-six again), but can't hurt to ask?
    As for the Tkachuk trades; both are centerpieces that GM builds around, it's why both were top 6 draft picks. The only time you usually see draft picks that high getting traded, is when they are not working out. In the case of Matt, the only players from his draft who have produced more points than him are Auston Matthews and Patrick Laine(who he is almost dead even with points-wise). To suggest that Kreider entering year 2 on a 7 year contract that is almost certain not to age well, Chytil who we discussed in the other thread is showing marginal improvement and certainly on the right trajectory(but far from guaranteed of getting close to point per game status), a plus a B+ D prospect, and a mid-value scratch lottery ticket, for a cornerstone player player doesn't seem to click for me. Akin to selling the fatted cow for a bag of magic beans.

    Putting the specific trade proposals aside, Jordan Greenway seems like alot sexier of an option than Zach Sanford, so yes absolutely I love the idea of adding him to the mix for the reasons that you mentioned. However w/o the context of who is going the other way, where he would play as a result and what the cost is; it's very hard to look at that past "it's a nice wish" rather than a plan.

  11. #11
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    14,033
    Rep Power
    288
    I would sell the farm for Brady but I don't know why the Sens would do that. Matt might be a good pick too. That's an interesting, outside the box idea that gets me excited -- because I agree with everything Larry said.

    The way I look at the team is this: great, everyone we've been excited about is here or almost here. Everyone is pretty damn good and in some cases better than advertised. But they're not a "team" yet.

    There has never been a cup winning team that had skilled players all the way down to 4th line wing and 6th defense. you have to be able to grind out wins. the Rangers haven't done that all season. I think they've won 4 one-goal games. If you remember the 2014 team, they weren't all that skilled but they went further than everyone but the Kings because they knew how to grind it out. Rangers need to strike a balance this offseason.

  12. #12
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    I'd sell a chunk of the farm for either. They're exactly what you want to fill this role — full of piss and vinegar and can play. Brady strikes me as meaner, Matt a bit more skilled.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  13. #13
    Senior Member BSBH Prospect
    ThirtyONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    14,033
    Rep Power
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Absentia View Post
    I'd sell a chunk of the farm for either. They're exactly what you want to fill this role — full of piss and vinegar and can play. Brady strikes me as meaner, Matt a bit more skilled.
    Either way, the Rangers desperately need a player who can drag them into the fight. I think Lemieux was supposed to be that kind of player but regressed in his time here.

    Good thing is, if it's obvious to us and the media, it's likely obvious to those in charge.

  14. #14
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Right, but one who can play. They basically need another (better) Kreider.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  15. #15
    Windmill Cancer Survivor, Super-Duper Missile CDR Midget Division
    jsrangers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Seaside Park NJ
    Posts
    3,255
    Rep Power
    87
    Would love to have either brother. Don't think Kreider would have any desire to play in either CAL or OTT so I think he would be out of any potential deal. If they go into next season thinking Gauthier is the solution or even a big part of it upfront I think they failed miserably. He's shown no signs of being the type of player whos going to dictate and or more accurately heavily influence how we play up front. They would blindly be taking a shot because they couldn't pull of brining in a proven player or two to help influence the game. Do they really want to possibly waste a year and end up with essentially the same MO rather than strike that new balance, I hope not.

  16. #16
    (╯?□?)╯︵ ┻━┻ BSBH Prospect
    Keirik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    14,553
    Rep Power
    389
    I say this, I’d be shocked if either Tkachuk were obtainable for anything less than STARTiNG with ALF. Despite his poor season I think he still has exponential value. Chytil no. Buch maybe, but why would either team trade a unicorn to obtain him when he’s easier to find? But I guess you could offer sheet Brady?

    First thing is first. The team needs to stop pretending they aren’t hoping Chytil becomes Strome. They also have to decide now if they proceed ahead with 1c and 2c being Ziby and Strome for more than next year. Personally I give up on Chytil. Not because I think he won’t one day be someone but because you have to stop trying to hoard unrealized talent.

    Address faceoffs. Have a 4th liner that’ll win a draw. I say Glendening. He’s great on faceoffs and is a place killer and happens to be a free agent this summer.

    That’s another problem. Our top 6 can’t be the top 6, the top pp, and the top pk. They can’t be everything. The bottom 6 have to have a role outside of just being a shift to get the top 6 rest.

    That’s all I got for now lol

  17. #17
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Quote Originally Posted by jsrangers View Post
    Would love to have either brother. Don't think Kreider would have any desire to play in either CAL or OTT so I think he would be out of any potential deal. If they go into next season thinking Gauthier is the solution or even a big part of it upfront I think they failed miserably. He's shown no signs of being the type of player whos going to dictate and or more accurately heavily influence how we play up front. They would blindly be taking a shot because they couldn't pull of brining in a proven player or two to help influence the game. Do they really want to possibly waste a year and end up with essentially the same MO rather than strike that new balance, I hope not.
    Exactly. He's 6′ 4″ of hope and prayer.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  18. #18
    Senior Member Pee-Wee Division Mr.wiskers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    674
    Rep Power
    15
    I think part of our teams softness has to do with the coaching philosophy as well. But with that being said I would think Matt would be easier to acquire because of Calgary’s cap situation, they will need to sign 8 players with the remaining 15 or so mil. of cap room—-and this is not a big market team who spend the full team cap.


    Sent from my iPad using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Russian Meddling BSBH Veteran
    josh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    33,539
    Rep Power
    585
    Brady isnt being moved.

    Is there something about Matt being traded? I dont understand why.

  20. #20
    Chitty chitty bang bang! BSBH Legend
    Phil in Absentia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    93,566
    Rep Power
    684
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Brady isnt being moved.

    Is there something about Matt being traded? I dont understand why.
    No, there's nothing specific to either of them, but there's a ton of buzz in Calgary about blowing up their core.

    https://puckprose.com/2021/04/05/fin...-blow-core-up/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlam...he_podcast_re/

    That probably means Monahan, Lindholm, etc. before Tkachuk, but listen to what Friedman was talking about a couple months ago. They're missing the playoffs again. It's worth asking.
    "Everyone says you should be a good loser. If you're a good loser, you're a loser."
    - John Tortorella


    "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."
    - Christopher Hitchens

Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •