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Thread: Targets to Break the Rangers' Homogeneity?

  1. #141
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    Lack of accountability that the top players get away with, while benching youngsters for less is probably at the tops, TBH.

    From Zibanejad, Kreider, the power play - Quinn let these guys get away with shit efforts for more than half a season. And you want me to give him a ribbon? He, essentially, is the reason they are not in a playoff spot.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    They still have the same problems from day 1.
    Mostly, lack of consistency, and lack of playoffs. Again.
    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Lack of accountability that the top players get away with, while benching youngsters for less is probably at the tops, TBH.

    From Zibanejad, Kreider, the power play - Quinn let these guys get away with shit efforts for more than half a season. And you want me to give him a ribbon? He, essentially, is the reason they are not in a playoff spot.
    Josh, I get you don't like the guy, but putting all of this at Quinn's feet is ludicrous, especially when you consider the outcomes.

    How is Quinn supposed to fix Zib getting COVID? How is Quinn supposed to fix Panarin having to miss games to deal with Putin? How is Quinn supposed to fix Shesterkin and Georgiev having to shake off the rust? How's Quinn supposed to fix having his depth center break his hand? How's he supposed to fix that his clear best option beyond Buch and Kakko on RW wanted to finish his season in Russia?

    We started slow. We have a top 5 PP (since January) and a top 5 PK. We have a top 5 offense in the NHL and we're getting damn close to having a top 5 defense. We've found consistency since mid-March - and when we have the off day, we're generally finding ways to make games competitive and win them. Maybe swapping Carolina and Boston in our division is apples-and-apples, but we went into this season thinking that we're 5th in the division and that'd be fine so long as we're competitive. Here we are - perhaps unfairly because of the rules of this season preventing us from rightfully taking a spot from the Stars/Predators - but right there. We're probably going to be the first team since the 1970 Canadiens to miss the playoffs with a +30 or more goal differential.

    Further, we have Lafreniere coming to life. We have Kravtsov punching up the lineup. We have Kakko basically breaking the probability curves on expected outputs versus actual outputs and starting to look a lot like they player we drafted. We successfully integrated two key pieces on defense, maybe 3 depending on how you see Hajek. We lost our PPQB and found Adam Fox has a franchise-talent level performance output. We have Buchnevich and Strome finding new levels. We have Panarin outpacing everyone in the NHL but McDavid. We have Zibanejad getting healthy and returning to Record Breaking Form. Hell, Brendan Smith is setting personal scoring records, Ryan Lindgren is suddenly piling up apples, and Colin Blackwell is scoring at a 40 point pace.

    It's probably fair to lament that this season isn't longer or isn't standard division setup, where at least we could be reasonably saying we're right there for WC2. It's certainly fair to lament our slow start. It may be fair to say we really don't have those guys that make a goalie uncomfortable in the paint - the one guy we do have is rather streaky. It's probably fair to ask what the fuck Quinn was thinking bringing Bitetto back in, or when he makes an odd change like putting Kevin Rooney's line out after pressing the Sabres in their own zone for two minutes. All fair criticisms.

    It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and imply that if only Quinn was fired we'd be in the playoffs and all would be well.
    Last edited by G1000; 04-29-2021 at 09:39 AM.

  3. #143
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    I'm not reading all of that, sorry -

    "It's not his fault that Zibanej" No - its his fault he kept playing him like he didn't have COVID.

    But you have to be a COMPLETE IDIOT to play Zibanejad during the start of the season. He was HORRIBLE. That ALONE cost them multiple points in the standings. Same with Kreider now. Or the PP for the first half of the season. Or the shit OT lines, or the terrible spot start picking for goalie starts.

    All these excuses - literally, COST them POINTS in the standings. He's literally the reason they are NOT in a playoff spot right now.
    I don't understand how people refuse to acknowledge that these constant, and horrible decisions are why they are on the outside looking in.

    "but they're winning" NO SHIT. They could have been winning all season.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    I'm not reading all of that, sorry -
    The point of a forum is to read and exchange ideas. If you're looking for a soapbox, try OnlyFans.

    "It's not his fault that Zibanej" No - its his fault he kept playing him like he didn't have COVID.

    But you have to be a COMPLETE IDIOT to play Zibanejad during the start of the season. He was HORRIBLE. That ALONE cost them multiple points in the standings. Same with Kreider now. Or the PP for the first half of the season. Or the shit OT lines, or the terrible spot start picking for goalie starts.
    Okay - so who are you playing over him? Are you putting Strome out there for 25 minutes a night to cover the gap? Are you playing Chyt...wait, he's hurt. Kevin Rooney? Colin Blackwell? If you're going to criticize the guy, give the viable alternate plan. There's not one here - and you know damn well that had Quinn started an overtime with Kevin Rooney in Zib's spot, the whole fanbase would have had a meltdown and it wouldn't have mattered because they'd still have lost.

    As for the PP - 23.3% in the NHL since February 1. Again - what more do you want here? A 23% power play is more than acceptable.

    All these excuses - literally, COST them POINTS in the standings. He's literally the reason they are NOT in a playoff spot right now.
    I don't understand how people refuse to acknowledge that these constant, and horrible decisions are why they are on the outside looking in.
    I'd probably argue the reason we're not in a playoff spot is that Zib got COVID and we had no personnel capable of filling his spot. I'd probably turn to the second reason being division alignment - which division aren't we making the playoffs in besides this one? Third, slow start. Quinn might be 8th or 9th on this list, and you'd be talking about select decisions in specific games that made no sense, like rotating Bitetto in against the Islanders.

    "but they're winning" NO SHIT. They could have been winning all season.
    I find it hard to believe that a team missing their top center, top wing, prospective 2c, PPQB, and for fits and spurts, their goalie, is going to be "winning all season". The only team that can do that is the Penguins, and we know the rules don't apply to them.

    Tell me - if this were a full season, do the Rangers make the playoffs? I'm finding no reason to think they'd miss.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    The point of a forum is to read and exchange ideas. If you're looking for a soapbox, try OnlyFans.



    Okay - so who are you playing over him? Are you putting Strome out there for 25 minutes a night to cover the gap? Are you playing Chyt...wait, he's hurt. Kevin Rooney? Colin Blackwell? If you're going to criticize the guy, give the viable alternate plan. There's not one here - and you know damn well that had Quinn started an overtime with Kevin Rooney in Zib's spot, the whole fanbase would have had a meltdown and it wouldn't have mattered because they'd still have lost.

    As for the PP - 23.3% in the NHL since February 1. Again - what more do you want here? A 23% power play is more than acceptable.



    I'd probably argue the reason we're not in a playoff spot is that Zib got COVID and we had no personnel capable of filling his spot. I'd probably turn to the second reason being division alignment - which division aren't we making the playoffs in besides this one? Third, slow start. Quinn might be 8th or 9th on this list, and you'd be talking about select decisions in specific games that made no sense, like rotating Bitetto in against the Islanders.



    I find it hard to believe that a team missing their top center, top wing, prospective 2c, PPQB, and for fits and spurts, their goalie, is going to be "winning all season". The only team that can do that is the Penguins, and we know the rules don't apply to them.

    Tell me - if this were a full season, do the Rangers make the playoffs? I'm finding no reason to think they'd miss.
    It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and suggest irrelevant scenarios.

    All of those excuses have been discussed, in length. What's the point of re-posting them? Because the Rangers slipped by the worst team in the league a few times, recently?

    Should we go back and evaluate when the Rangers season took a drastic turn for the better? Do you recall what that was?

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and suggest irrelevant scenarios.

    All of those excuses have been discussed, in length. What's the point of re-posting them? Because the Rangers slipped by the worst team in the league a few times, recently?

    Should we go back and evaluate when the Rangers season took a drastic turn for the better? Do you recall what that was?
    Obviously it was when DeAngelo was cut and Bitetto was put in. The Rangers are 25-16-4 since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Okay - so who are you playing over him? Are you putting Strome out there for 25 minutes a night to cover the gap? Are you playing Chyt...wait, he's hurt. Kevin Rooney? Colin Blackwell? If you're going to criticize the guy, give the viable alternate plan. There's not one here - and you know damn well that had Quinn started an overtime with Kevin Rooney in Zib's spot, the whole fanbase would have had a meltdown and it wouldn't have mattered because they'd still have lost.
    My gripe at the time was the insistence of keeping him on PP1. I think he finally got moved off temporarily, but the damage was already done in a shortened season. Could have had Buchnevich on it, as he was/is playing very well. Could have tried a kid, Kakko or Laf. Instead we watched Zibanejad literally whiff/shank how many one timers? A PP change alone might could have netted us 4-8 more points or so than we have now. They had 8 1-goal losses in their first 17 games.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and suggest irrelevant scenarios.
    It's not irrelevant to ask you to come up with the better idea than "don't play your best center". If you haven't got an answer, then I think you've got your answer.

    All of those excuses have been discussed, in length. What's the point of re-posting them? Because the Rangers slipped by the worst team in the league a few times, recently?
    Last I checked, beating the bad teams is also part of making the playoffs. Also, last I checked, there's a difference between an excuse and an explanation. It's an excuse when there are better options. it's an explanation when there's not.

    As I said earlier, if you haven't got an answer to the "better idea", it's an explanation, not an excuse.

    Should we go back and evaluate when the Rangers season took a drastic turn for the better? Do you recall what that was?
    Since we're apparently evaluating a rather explainable February, go for it. Is it when the entire coaching staff got COVID, because if so, there's like six weeks of season that are completely inconsistent with that explanation where this coaching staff was running the team to equal results.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    Obviously it was when DeAngelo was cut and Bitetto was put in. The Rangers are 25-16-4 since.
    Since Knoblach came up,
    Panarin tied 1st for points in the league
    Zibanejad 3rd
    Fox 5th
    Strome 10th
    Buchnevich 20th

    Team tied for 3rd in points
    2nd best PP



    Literally, all shit we "unfair[ly] and frankly, uninformed" complained about.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc51 View Post
    My gripe at the time was the insistence of keeping him on PP1. I think he finally got moved off temporarily, but the damage was already done in a shortened season. Could have had Buchnevich on it, as he was/is playing very well. Could have tried a kid, Kakko or Laf. Instead we watched Zibanejad literally whiff/shank how many one timers? A PP change alone might could have netted us 4-8 more points or so than we have now. They had 8 1-goal losses in their first 17 games.
    At one point he was shooting like 2%. It wasn't great. I can understand that, but I'd probably ask which righty shot was going to join that PP as the triggerman? We know the structure works - so you need personnel that meets the need.

    It was like...Blackwell, Strome, nothing. Both of us would go with a "fuck it, put a lefty up there", sure.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Since Knoblach came up,
    Panarin tied 1st for points in the league
    Zibanejad 3rd
    Fox 5th
    Strome 10th
    Buchnevich 20th

    Team tied for 3rd in points
    2nd best PP



    Literally, all shit we "unfair[ly] and frankly, uninformed" complained about.
    Remind me again how many games Knoblauch has coached since 3/28, where we're 11-4-2, have the 2nd most points in the NHL, have a 30.4% PP, have scored the most goals, have been 7th place in GA/G and the individual stats generally hold without those Flyers blowouts?

    Is your assertion that if Knoblauch didn't come up and teach the team the precise same system that they'd been using, this season is a lost cause?

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Remind me again how many games Knoblauch has coached since 3/28, where we're 11-4-2, have the 2nd most points in the NHL, have a 30.4% PP, have scored the most goals, have been 7th place in GA/G and the individual stats generally hold without those Flyers blowouts?

    Is your assertion that if Knoblauch didn't come up and teach the team the precise same system that they'd been using, this season is a lost cause?
    It's entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and imply that Knoblach's time with the team didn't change something that allowed them to be fighting for the playoffs.


    And I mentioned it before, it wasn't when Quinn initially came back, but about a week later. The team played loose, had their swag. Since then, even Pete has admitted that top offensive guys do their own thing, regardless of coach or system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    Since Knoblach came up,
    Panarin tied 1st for points in the league
    Zibanejad 3rd
    Fox 5th
    Strome 10th
    Buchnevich 20th

    Team tied for 3rd in points
    2nd best PP



    Literally, all shit we "unfair[ly] and frankly, uninformed" complained about.
    Actually Panarin returned on 3/13 they are 16-6-3.

    4-2 with Knobalch, who got hourly instructions from Quinn (3/17 to 3/27)
    12-4-3 with Quinn

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    It's entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed, to sit here and imply that Knoblach's time with the team didn't change something that allowed them to be fighting for the playoffs.


    And I mentioned it before, it wasn't when Quinn initially came back, but about a week later. The team played loose, had their swag. Since then, even Pete has admitted that top offensive guys do their own thing, regardless of coach or system.

    And that has nothing to do with, say, getting healthy, getting their best players back from injury or other things? Like Panarin returning two days before Quinn got COVID? Or Zibanejad turning the corner in early March? Or Chytil being healthy and giving us the depth to roll three lines?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Actually Panarin returned on 3/13 they are 16-6-3.

    4-2 with Knobalch, who got hourly instructions from Quinn (3/17 to 3/27)
    12-4-3 with Quinn
    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    And that has nothing to do with, say, getting healthy, getting their best players back from injury or other things? Like Panarin returning two days before Quinn got COVID? Or Zibanejad turning the corner in early March? Or Chytil being healthy and giving us the depth to roll three lines?
    The "I've never been in a locker room before" approach.

    If you can't admit the team was visibly different on the ice following Quinn leaving, I don't know what to tell you, except It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed,

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    The "I've never been in a locker room before" approach.

    If you can't admit the team was visibly different on the ice following Quinn leaving, I don't know what to tell you, except It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed,
    Yeah, I mean, getting two of the top 5 scorers in the NHL last season back in your lineup and to form tends to have that effect. I don't really know what to tell you if you think that having great players return to playing great is going to have a negligible impact on a team. Seems...what's the line you're using to troll me here - unfair and uninformed - to ignore that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    They still have the same problems from day 1.
    Mostly, lack of consistency, and lack of playoffs. Again.
    Again? Were the playoffs a realistic expectation last year? That they even made spitting distance was a total bonus, IMO. And they obviously weren't ready for the play-in.

    I've said often and all along that '21-22 is the first year to expect playoffs and possible contention. They've made big strides but have a long way to go. Sticking with that time line.



    Sent from my SM-G970U using Blueshirts Brotherhood mobile app powered by Tapatalk

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh View Post
    The "I've never been in a locker room before" approach.

    If you can't admit the team was visibly different on the ice following Quinn leaving, I don't know what to tell you, except It seems entirely unfair and frankly, uninformed,
    Knock off the trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    At one point he was shooting like 2%. It wasn't great. I can understand that, but I'd probably ask which righty shot was going to join that PP as the triggerman? We know the structure works - so you need personnel that meets the need.

    It was like...Blackwell, Strome, nothing. Both of us would go with a "fuck it, put a lefty up there", sure.
    Panarin is the triggerman on PP1. They didn't need a righty shot to replace Zibanejad.

    I don't see why they couldn't have done:

    Kreider
    Panarin - Strome - Buchnevich
    Fox

    until Zibanejad was feeling back to normal. Quinn tried the same garbage. And, in my opinion, the current setup with 4 right handed shots fails to be effective enough against the better teams, despite the overall success of the PP in general. It can delete some of the bad teams. I haven't looked up the numbers, but it seems every time we play better teams like the Isles and Bruins they know how to play it, and we never adjust.
    Last edited by rmc51; 04-29-2021 at 12:36 PM.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by G1000 View Post
    Yeah, I mean, getting two of the top 5 scorers in the NHL last season back in your lineup and to form tends to have that effect. I don't really know what to tell you if you think that having great players return to playing great is going to have a negligible impact on a team. Seems...what's the line you're using to troll me here - unfair and uninformed - to ignore that?
    I mean, there's a ton I would say about this, but it's just repeating.
    The kids should have been getting ice time early on, and when someone goes down, it's easy for someone to step in.
    Zibanejad should not have been getting ice time.
    Then, when you get to these crunch-time games, kids have more experience & confidence, Zibanejad has more left in the tank, etc.

    I think people are severely underestimating, or simply forgetting, how these poor decisions trickle-down. Especially with the inconsistent lack of accountability top players are held to.

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