2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck Around & Find Out!

I'm sure the Rangers could get that info, but it seems like a massive massive risk. I do like Toews. And I do think he'd be a great fit here (contract not withstanding). But his illness is bizarre.

Too much of a risk imo if it's covid long haul and it's already cost him the entire season and he's still recovering. I would think at this point he could possibly be susceptible to related heart issues too as a result. Too much of an unknown still in my book to risk a big swing a miss, although I love the player he was prior and I guess at some point still might be. I'm ok with finding that out from a distance.

Toews would literally be the perfect fit for the Rangers....if it wasn’t for his issues.

He checks just about every box that the Rangers have a need for. It’s a shame he’s dealing with what he’s dealing with. If he were made available, and Chicago retained salary, I think the Rangers would for sure have interest. But, given his legacy and history with that team, I doubt the cost is going to make much sense.

Toronto is interesting because there's a logical space to overreact here, and a perfectly equally logical space to point to a lack of scoring depth once Tavares got clocked. Their defense is fine. Their offense is fine. Their goaltending stepped up. That Keefe got outcoached in games 5 and 6 is very, very concerning.

 

They need to rebuild their bottom 6, figure out a backup goalie, and one or two defenders on around 12.5 million in cap space.

Yeah, maybe it is the coach. They've shuffled that bottom 6 for how many years now though?

This recent batch of bottom 6 produced in the regular season, butt hey didn't do too badly in the playoffs either. Kerfoot and Spezza were 2nd and 3rd in scoring for the series.

I don't like much about their defense. I think they could use a shut down type or a bit of muscle back there.

But, yeah, maybe it's the coach. That roster should do better.

Lightning had 1 Cup Final and 2 Conference Final appearances in the 4 years prior to getting swept by Panarin. Toronto has now been bounced in the first round 5 straight years.

Exactly.

Compare: Neil Smith's overreaction to losing to the Flyers in 1995 to Tampa's prudent and measured reaction to being swept by Columbus in 2019. That said, I sure wouldn't rule out a Marner for Jones deal if I were them.

I would rule it out. Jones stinks now. Marner is a franchise level player. If they're trading him it's for a haul which would need to be a younger and affordable player that is going to stick around.

Wanna dump Trouba? Call Toronto. Obviously it would cost more than Trouba..

Wanna dump Trouba? Call Toronto. Obviously it would cost more than Trouba..

Again, why talk about trading players with NMCs. Again, they are rarely waived and when they are, it is is usually by a player playing for a bad team at the end of his contract. Trouba already insisted on leaving Winnipeg because he insisted on being in the U.S., as his wife would be going to an American rather than Canadian medical school. Trouba is not consenting to going to Toronto. There is no precedent for that kind of move. Why bring it up?

Again, why talk about trading players with NMCs. Again, they are rarely waived and when they are, it is is usually by a player playing for a bad team at the end of his contract. Trouba already insisted on leaving Winnipeg because he insisted on being in the U.S., as his wife would be going to an American rather than Canadian medical school. Trouba is not consenting to going to Toronto. There is no precedent for that kind of move. Why bring it up?

Yup. It's utterly a waste of time even mentioning it.

Too much of a risk imo if it's covid long haul and it's already cost him the entire season and he's still recovering. I would think at this point he could possibly be susceptible to related heart issues too as a result. Too much of an unknown still in my book to risk a big swing a miss, although I love the player he was prior and I guess at some point still might be. I'm ok with finding that out from a distance.

This is kind of a ridiculous statement don't you think? What is your profession to make such a prognosis. Even if you were the best doctor on earth wouldn't you need to examine the person to know if he had heart issues from Covid? The Rangers have doctors to make such an examination before dealing for him. I'm ok with the actual doctors making the call on whether the risk is worth it.

Again, why talk about trading players with NMCs. Again, they are rarely waived and when they are, it is is usually by a player playing for a bad team at the end of his contract. Trouba already insisted on leaving Winnipeg because he insisted on being in the U.S., as his wife would be going to an American rather than Canadian medical school. Trouba is not consenting to going to Toronto. There is no precedent for that kind of move. Why bring it up?

I think that was more about getting out of Winnipeg, aka Columbus north. Nobody wants to be in Winnipeg. I think it's perfectly acceptable to talk about trading players with NTCs, IF you are talking about trading them to a desirable team. I'm not talking about sending him to Buffalo or Ottawa. He'd instantly be on a cup contender. I seriously doubt his wife's medical career trumps his hockey career. I'm not saying he's not happy here, because I don't know if he is. But if he were, he'd certainly be fine with getting out of the city that he's been putting up some of his worst stats in.

Why bring it up? I have to answer to you?

This is kind of a ridiculous statement don't you think? What is your profession to make such a prognosis. Even if you were the best doctor on earth wouldn't you need to examine the person to know if he had heart issues from Covid? The Rangers have doctors to make such an examination before dealing for him. I'm ok with the actual doctors making the call on whether the risk is worth it.

Read it again. I said IF it was long haul covid that already cost him the entire season and he's still not fully recovered as of now. He could also possibly be suseptible to future heart issues. I'm not a Dr. I have also not made a diagnosis. I stated imo the risk of making such a move is too great for multiple reasons.

I do however have a 34 year old brother who was diagnosed with covid in March/April of 2020 who has never fully recovered and is now living with said heart issues, hence my apprehension. But you do you capt.

No he didn't play in the NHL, just worked out 4-5 days a week and has been a runner his entire life, well up until he got sick.

Again, why talk about trading players with NMCs. Again, they are rarely waived and when they are, it is is usually by a player playing for a bad team at the end of his contract. Trouba already insisted on leaving Winnipeg because he insisted on being in the U.S., as his wife would be going to an American rather than Canadian medical school. Trouba is not consenting to going to Toronto. There is no precedent for that kind of move. Why bring it up?

NMCs don't prevent a team from trading a player. They prevent a team from trading a player to a place he doesn't want to be. It's rare if ever that a player approached to waive their clause refuses or doesn't eventually relent; nobody wants to work for someone who doesn't want you working for them and that holds true here.

It's way harder. But it's not impossible.

I mean... Marc Staal waived his to go to Detroit... The worst team in the league. You don't need more of a proof point than that.

Staal did not waive. He had a limited NTC in the final years of his contract and did not have Detroit on the list of teams to which he could not be traded.

As Yzerman said, "Staal's No-Movement Clause did not apply in this instance"

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/09/red-wings-acquire-defenseman-marc-staal-second-round-pick-from-rangers.html

It was a limited NMC in the final years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/detroit-red-wings/marc-staal-1938/

Various hockey writers got it wrong, and presumed he must have waived it, but as Yzerman said, it didn't apply to this trade.

Staal did not waive. He had a limited NTC in the final years of his contract and did not have Detroit on the list of teams to which he could not be traded.

 

As Yzerman said, "Staal's No-Movement Clause did not apply in this instance"

 

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/09/red-wings-acquire-defenseman-marc-staal-second-round-pick-from-rangers.html

 

It was a limited NMC in the final years.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/detroit-red-wings/marc-staal-1938/

 

Various hockey writers got it wrong, and presumed he must have waived it, but as Yzerman said, it didn't apply to this trade.

Staal did not waive. He had a limited NTC in the final years of his contract and did not have Detroit on the list of teams to which he could not be traded.

 

As Yzerman said, "Staal's No-Movement Clause did not apply in this instance"

 

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/09/red-wings-acquire-defenseman-marc-staal-second-round-pick-from-rangers.html

 

It was a limited NMC in the final years.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/detroit-red-wings/marc-staal-1938/

 

Various hockey writers got it wrong, and presumed he must have waived it, but as Yzerman said, it didn't apply to this trade.

Don't trust sportrac. Nhl.com quotes capfriendly. Capfriendly has the accurate info.

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Shit my bad I didn't realize the team had doctors.

 

Read it again clown. I said IF it was long haul covid that already cost him the entire season and he's still not fully recovered as of now. He could also possibly be suseptible to future heart issues. I'm not a Dr. I have also not made a diagnosis. I stated imo the risk of making such a move is too great for multiple reasons.

 

I do however have a 34 year old brother who was diagnosed with covid in March/April of 2020 who has never fully recovered and is now living with said heart issues, hence my apprehension. But you do you capt.

 

No he didn't play in the NHL, just worked out 4-5 days a week and has been a runner his entire life, well up until he got sick.

He could possibly be susceptible to all kinds of issues. No shit. Im sorry to hear about your brother but his case has nothing to do with Toews. Has there even been a report that confirmed he had Covid? Thank you for stating the obvious that there is risk to trading for a mid 30's player who just missed an entire season due to an unknown illness. Why the need to add that he may have heart issues as if you have some inside knowledge to what his problem is is simply a ridiculous statement. Again I'm sorry your brother has experienced his issues. Just state that then. Don't make this about me,. I'm not doing anything other than calling out your point has zero basis is facts and should treated as such. Calling me names doesn't change that point.

"Staal, whose 892 regular-season games rank sixth in franchise history, owned a modified no-trade clause on which Detroit was not listed as off-limits, The Post has learned."

https://nypost.com/2020/09/26/rangers-trade-marc-staal-second-round-draft-pick-to-red-wings/

Whether or not you like Uncle Larry, he has better sources than most in the business. Moreover, what he says is consistent with what Yzerman said, which was not completely forthcoming about the nature of the NMC but indicated that it was something other than a straightforward airtight NMC.

Also, Uncle Larry's scoop simply makes more sense. I doubt Staal would waive his NMC to go to Detroit, a poor team, when he otherwise probably would have been bought out and could have had his choice.

I'm not going to do the research, but Uncle Larry was not the only one with this information at the time. Others were more specific, describing a 10 team no trade list.

Sorry, Marc Staal did not waive an NMC.

"Staal, whose 892 regular-season games rank sixth in franchise history, owned a modified no-trade clause on which Detroit was not listed as off-limits, The Post has learned."

 

https://nypost.com/2020/09/26/rangers-trade-marc-staal-second-round-draft-pick-to-red-wings/

 

Whether or not you like Uncle Larry, he has better sources than most in the business. Moreover, what he says is consistent with what Yzerman said, which was not completely forthcoming about the nature of the NMC but indicated that it was something other than a straightforward airtight NMC.

 

Also, Uncle Larry's scoop simply makes more sense. I doubt Staal would waive his NMC to go to Detroit, a poor team, when he otherwise probably would have been bought out and could have had his choice.

 

I'm not going to do the research, but Uncle Larry was not the only one with this information at the time. Others were more specific, describing a 10 team no trade list.

 

Sorry, Marc Staal did not waive an NMC.

Even if you want to debate that, plenty of other players waive. It's a non-issue. It makes it harder, not impossible.

Uncle Larry did not make it to the Hall of Fame with this board as his source.

I don't know of any player a year or two into a long term contract, who was not the source of any particular controversy aside from being somewhat overpaid, who waived an NMC to leave a team loaded with talent and facing a promising future. If you can name someone like that, I'd be interested.

In 2024, when Kreider is in the last year of his NMC, the deadline is approaching, and the Rangers are out of the playoffs (God forbid), we can talk about Kreider maybe waiving his NMC.

Uncle Larry did not make it to the Hall of Fame with this board as his source.

 

I don't know of any player a year or two into a long term contract, who was not the source of any particular controversy aside from being somewhat overpaid, who waived an NMC to leave a team loaded with talent and facing a promising future. If you can name someone like that, I'd be interested.

 

In 2024, when Kreider is in the last year of his NMC, the deadline is approaching, and the Rangers are out of the playoffs (God forbid), we can talk about Kreider maybe waiving his NMC.

BTW, Dany Heatley not only waived his NTC a year into a 6 year deal, he asked for a trade because he was unhappy with his role.

Should Trouba find himself on the third or Kreider playing 14 mins a night... Players want to play.

Uncle Larry's best source is this board.

 

Even if you want to debate that, plenty of other players waive. It's a non-issue. It makes it harder, not impossible.

Do you really believe Larry takes his sources and thoughts from this board?

BTW, Dany Heatley not only waived his NTC a year into a 6 year deal, he asked for a trade because he was unhappy with his role.

 

BTW, Heatley asked to be traded after a controversy erupted due to him sleeping with Jason Spezza's wife and Spezza sleeping with Heatley's fiance. Here's one link, but it was widely reported all over at the time. As I said, in the previous post "I don't know of any player a year or two into a long term contract, who was not the source of any particular controversy aside from being somewhat overpaid..." Heatley was involved in a huge off ice controversy, which Kreider and Trouba have not been. When they start sleeping with teammates' women, the possibility of them waiving their NMCs will be something to talk about.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/240453-the-real-reason-why-dany-heatley-wants-to-be-traded-away-from-ottawa

BTW, Dany Heatley not only waived his NTC a year into a 6 year deal, he asked for a trade because he was unhappy with his role.

 

BTW, Heatley asked to be traded after a controversy erupted due to him sleeping with Jason Spezza's wife and Spezza sleeping with Heatley's fiance. Here's one link, but it was widely reported all over at the time. As I said, in the previous post "I don't know of any player a year or two into a long term contract, who was not the source of any particular controversy aside from being somewhat overpaid..." Heatley was involved in a huge off ice controversy, which Kreider and Trouba have not been. When they start sleeping with teammates' women, the possibility of them waiving their NMCs will be something to talk about.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/240453-the-real-reason-why-dany-heatley-wants-to-be-traded-away-from-ottawa

Sorry but the only thing less credible than Bleacher Report in an article from Bleacher Report that says "there's no evidence for what you're about to read."

 

Like I said before, if you don't want to talk about players waving and NMCs, then don't talk about it. Doesn't mean other people can't.