2021 Offseason Thread: Fuck Around & Find Out!

Toronto isn’t blowing anything up. They’ll be dumb if they do. They have a core any team would dream of.

They can’t make any impactful moves with the current core due to cap issues.

All career losers except for Muzzin. They lost him, they lost the series

Thornton and spezza are not exactly foot soldiers

Rangers pick 15th in the NHL Draft.

I'll be shocked if we actually make the pick. But if we do, there's some centers in that range that we should absolutely go for.

I'll be shocked if we actually make the pick. But if we do, there's some centers in that range that we should absolutely go for.

As there is no legit centerman in this system that I can think of I think this would be wise. It's a problem now, and will likely be one later too.

They can’t make any impactful moves with the current core due to cap issues.

They can, if they want to. Nylander is eminently tradeable. So is Marner. Marner has four years left at a $10.9 million cap hit, but nearly 50% of his actual salary (48.6%) has already been paid. The first two years of his deal alone were worth $29.6 million. He has a $9.6 million signing bonus for 2021-22. If that's paid first and then he's traded, any team picking him up who might want the inflated cap hit, is on the hook to pay him $8 million in actual salary ($7.25 million signing bonus, $750K base pay) for the final three seasons.

It's not an issue of they can't make impactful moves, it's an issue that they won't want to. Because they'll almost certainly lose any deal by default by including the best player in the deal.

I saw Marner for Jones from Columbus floated. Not a bad play on all levels.

I heard that too, and aside from like...valuation, I don't get it.

Toronto can be fine defensively with a veteran signing - they can go get Hjarlmarsson, bring back Bogosian, promote Sandin and they're probably okay. I know the Habs aren't exactly the paragon of goalscoring, but the current Toronto D held them to 2 goals a game. That's perfectly good. What undid them was that if the top line wasn't scoring, nobody was once Tavares got bonked. They need depth.

If they decide to move on from Marner, they're getting young, cost controlled mid-sixers.

Columbus getting Marner makes no sense either. Columbus' old core is gone, especially if Jones moves along. They're going to be heading into a youth movement. Doesn't make sense to bring in (yet another) big-ticket LW. If I'm CBJ, I send him to Philly and see if Cam York, this year's 1st, and more could come back.

Toronto's GM said explicitly that none of his big four, and not Marner in particular, is going anywhere. Expect a lot of roster moves elsewhere, however.

You'd have to question if Dubas has a job on the coming weeks. He's been there since 2018 and that team has made litte progress.

One of their top 4 forwards needs to be moved in order to bring in actual upgrades on D. Their veteran help they brought in didn't hurt them. The top guys did nothing their defense is weak. Goaltending is suspect at best.

Dubas can say he's not moving any of them all he wants. It comes down to the fact that he simply HAS to. That's almost 40 million of cap space tied into 4 forwards. While they are all super talented and pretty awesome, they can't keep them. Look at the massive drop off in talent and in salary on that roster after the big 4.

There's no money for the upgrades elsewhere. I don't know what they have as far as prospects, but what kind of changes can they even afford?

You'd have to question if Dubas has a job on the coming weeks. He's been there since 2018 and that team has made litte progress.

 

One of their top 4 forwards needs to be moved in order to bring in actual upgrades on D. Their veteran help they brought in didn't hurt them. The top guys did nothing their defense is weak. Goaltending is suspect at best.

 

Dubas can say he's not moving any of them all he wants. It comes down to the fact that he simply HAS to. That's almost 40 million of cap space tied into 4 forwards. While they are all super talented and pretty awesome, they can't keep them. Look at the massive drop off in talent and in salary on that roster after the big 4.

 

There's no money for the upgrades elsewhere. I don't know what they have as far as prospects, but what kind of changes can they even afford?

Toronto is interesting because there's a logical space to overreact here, and a perfectly equally logical space to point to a lack of scoring depth once Tavares got clocked. Their defense is fine. Their offense is fine. Their goaltending stepped up. That Keefe got outcoached in games 5 and 6 is very, very concerning.

They need to rebuild their bottom 6, figure out a backup goalie, and one or two defenders on around 12.5 million in cap space.

Toronto is interesting because there's a logical space to overreact here, and a perfectly equally logical space to point to a lack of scoring depth once Tavares got clocked. Their defense is fine. Their offense is fine. Their goaltending stepped up. That Keefe got outcoached in games 5 and 6 is very, very concerning.

 

They need to rebuild their bottom 6, figure out a backup goalie, and one or two defenders on around 12.5 million in cap space.

Yeah. I'm inclined to agree. Both the Leafs and the Oilers might just refer to the Lightning getting swept in the first round by Columbus a few years ago. Rather than blowing it up, they retooled by upgrading their 3rd pairing D and bottom 6. They didn't overreact and trade Stamkos, Point, etc. They brought in Shattenkirk to replace Girardi and Maroon for the bottom 6. Then they added excellent bottom 6 players at the deadline in Coleman and Goodrow. They gave a 1st for both of those guys and I remember thinking "what gross overpayment". I was wrong.

Yeah. I'm inclined to agree. Both the Leafs and the Oilers might just refer to the Lightning getting swept in the first round by Columbus a few years ago. Rather than blowing it up, they retooled by upgrading their 3rd pairing D and bottom 6. They didn't overreact and trade Stamkos, Point, etc. They brought in Shattenkirk to replace Girardi and Maroon for the bottom 6. Then they added excellent bottom 6 players at the deadline in Coleman and Goodrow. They gave a 1st for both of those guys and I remember thinking "what gross overpayment". I was wrong.

Makes sense if you buy into the "your top-six gets you to the playoffs and your bottom-six wins you games in them" theory.

Yeah. I'm inclined to agree. Both the Leafs and the Oilers might just refer to the Lightning getting swept in the first round by Columbus a few years ago. Rather than blowing it up, they retooled by upgrading their 3rd pairing D and bottom 6. They didn't overreact and trade Stamkos, Point, etc. They brought in Shattenkirk to replace Girardi and Maroon for the bottom 6. Then they added excellent bottom 6 players at the deadline in Coleman and Goodrow. They gave a 1st for both of those guys and I remember thinking "what gross overpayment". I was wrong.

Lightning had 1 Cup Final and 2 Conference Final appearances in the 4 years prior to getting swept by Panarin. Toronto has now been bounced in the first round 5 straight years.

Yeah. I'm inclined to agree. Both the Leafs and the Oilers might just refer to the Lightning getting swept in the first round by Columbus a few years ago. Rather than blowing it up, they retooled by upgrading their 3rd pairing D and bottom 6. They didn't overreact and trade Stamkos, Point, etc.

Compare: Neil Smith's overreaction to losing to the Flyers in 1995 to Tampa's prudent and measured reaction to being swept by Columbus in 2019. That said, I sure wouldn't rule out a Marner for Jones deal if I were them.

Lightning had 1 Cup Final and 2 Conference Final appearances in the 4 years prior to getting swept by Panarin. Toronto has now been bounced in the first round 5 straight years.

That's true, but I think an argument could be made that TB's success followed by completely falling apart is just as much a tempting reason to blow it up as Toronto's problem of just not getting over the hump yet.

That's true, but I think an argument could be made that TB's success followed by completely falling apart is just as much a tempting reason to blow it up as Toronto's problem of just not getting over the hump yet.

That was my point though. Getting to the Finals/Conference Finals is the hump that Tampa was stalling out on. Toronto hasn't even been able to get to the hump yet.

That was my point though. Getting to the Finals/Conference Finals is the hump that Tampa was stalling out on. Toronto hasn't even been able to get to the hump yet.

Ah. Ok. I thought your point was that Tampa had previously shown an ability to go deep so they had less reason to make a major move.

Do we know whats up with Toews yet?

Kinda, sorta.

Here’s what I can report: Toews is indeed improving, as TSN’s Darren Dreger first reported in late April. And the Blackhawks are indeed optimistic he’ll be able to return to the team in the fall. That said, nothing is certain. Being optimistic is not the same thing as being sure.

https://theathletic.com/2624158/2021/06/02/covering-jonathan-toews-trading-for-seth-jones-predicting-the-blackhawks-lineup-heylaz-mailbag/

He's exactly the kind of player they need, though. I'd absolutely have interest in trading for him.

No one knows (except for him and the Hawks).

Best guess? Long-hauler Covid. It was reported that whatever unspecified medical issue he's dealing with left him feeling “drained and lethargic.”