Fire DQ, Hire Brucey B, ????, Profit!!!

Kakko in May 2020, on a Finnish podcast: "Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that". This is something nobody wants to hear coming from your elite prospects. I'm wondering if Laf is being held back from playing his game and trying to play the Quinnified hockey game.

I see Josh already posted this quote in another thread. Oops.

You know I luv ya like a brutha, my man, but what is it about Quinn that sets everyone off?

 

He says a lot of things that make sense, and I see him on the bench communicating well. He doesn't seem to be shitting on guys (on TV, anyway). I obviously have no clue what goes on behind the locker room door. Also seems like a fairly likeable dude. Some of his BU players really loved him, like Greenway: http://theathletic.com/293193/2018/03/29/jordan-greenway-minnesota-wild-david-quinn-boston-university-shattuck-st-marys/

 

Maybe I'm missing something? ...I dunno.

 

I'm curious, because you have a really good handle on this, and I keep thinking I'm not seeing the forest through the trees with this guy.

Look at how they play. That's all you need to know.

Kakko in May 2020, on a Finnish podcast: "Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that". This is something nobody wants to hear coming from your elite prospects. I'm wondering if Laf is being held back from playing his game and trying to play the Quinnified hockey game.

I see Josh already posted this quote in another thread. Oops.

Towards the end of the season"...Kakko was the worst player in the NHL. He shouldn't have been trying to do anything special. He was awful, and that's why the coach was telling him to simplify.

You know I luv ya like a brutha, my man, but what is it about Quinn that sets everyone off?

 

He says a lot of things that make sense, and I see him on the bench communicating well. He doesn't seem to be shitting on guys (on TV, anyway). I obviously have no clue what goes on behind the locker room door. Also seems like a fairly likeable dude. Some of his BU players really loved him, like Greenway: http://theathletic.com/293193/2018/03/29/jordan-greenway-minnesota-wild-david-quinn-boston-university-shattuck-st-marys/

 

Maybe I'm missing something? ...I dunno.

 

I'm curious, because you have a really good handle on this, and I keep thinking I'm not seeing the forest through the trees with this guy.

What I see on the ice, or lack there of. No system, inconsistent play, constant line juggling, no actual philosophy or game plan, trying to fit square pegs in some players into round holes, how we look like a team in a rec league, never playing a 60 minute game, “can’t miss prospects” that are missing wildly, guys used in questionable roles, and accountability only for certain players. And everything I said above you can say at any point during the last three years sans last February really and it remains true so it’s not the roster in my opinion. It’s him.

He’s a college coach. No problem with that, but he’s currently coaching an NHL team. He’s in way over his head.

Towards the end of the season"...Kakko was the worst player in the NHL. He shouldn't have been trying to do anything special. He was awful, and that's why the coach was telling him to simplify.

How do you know Quinn told him/them to just simplify. Like don't stick handle and carry the puck. It's the reason they were drafted high. Because of their puck skills and play making ability. Take Howden as an example. He came on the team and looked fairly offensively gifted and now he's Fast 2.0. Simplifying gifted players sounds a little counter- intuitive to me.

What I see on the ice, or lack there of. No system, inconsistent play, constant line juggling, no actual philosophy or game plan, trying to fit square pegs in some players into round holes, how we look like a team in a rec league, never playing a 60 minute game, “can’t miss prospects” that are missing wildly, guys used in questionable roles, and accountability only for certain players. And everything I said above you can say at any point during the last three years sans last February really and it remains true so it’s not the roster in my opinion. It’s him.

 

He’s a college coach. No problem with that, but he’s currently coaching an NHL team. He’s in way over his head.

Last night there was no line juggling. Kakko played 17 minutes on the second line. They ran into a hot goalie and, as a young team team, got crushed and lost their steam when the Isles scored. This was a growing pains game.

Last night there was no line juggling. Kakko played 17 minutes on the second line. They ran into a hot goalie and, as a young team team, got crushed and lost their steam when the Isles scored. This was a growing pains game.

yepp.

I was also thinking if Zibanajad had 2-3 more goals this season this team also probably has 2-3 more wins. This starts and ends with the vets- no rookie is going to perform well when the vets arent.

How do you know Quinn told him/them to just simplify. Like don't stick handle and carry the puck. It's the reason they were drafted high. Because of their puck skills and play making ability. Take Howden as an example. He came on the team and looked fairly offensively gifted and now he's Fast 2.0. Simplifying gifted players sounds a little counter- intuitive to me.

When you're statistically the worst forward in the league, you shouldn't be dangling.

Any player will tell you to simplify your game during a slump.

What I see on the ice, or lack there of. No system, inconsistent play, constant line juggling, no actual philosophy or game plan, trying to fit square pegs in some players into round holes, how we look like a team in a rec league, never playing a 60 minute game, “can’t miss prospects” that are missing wildly, guys used in questionable roles, and accountability only for certain players. And everything I said above you can say at any point during the last three years sans last February really and it remains true so it’s not the roster in my opinion. It’s him.

 

He’s a college coach. No problem with that, but he’s currently coaching an NHL team. He’s in way over his head.

Alright....I get where you're going.

I see the line juggling, and inconsistent play for sure. I think one feeds the other in that sort! ;)

I know I'd start shifting guys around to get a spark, if I was coaching (Thank god I'm not!!!) LOL

I look at Trotz though; The Isles have a playoff/Stanley Cup contending team and they had the same record as us going into last night's game. Their 4th line stepped up and won that game with some tough play and hard work. They basically waited for the Rangers to make a mistake, and they did. That's experience to me, Big K...not so much coaching. But we can differ on that...no worries.

I guess it's more the fact that I'm a "defense first" kinda guy, and I see them playing a fairly well designed defensive style that keeps teams at bay, and pressures the puck carriers when in our own zone.

I know, go figure...I'm an offensive player my whole life and I like a "defense first" coach!! :rofl: I'm fucking crazy though, so there's that!!! LOL

Every day with the wrong coach is one less day with the right one.

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Last night there was no line juggling. Kakko played 17 minutes on the second line. They ran into a hot goalie and, as a young team team, got crushed and lost their steam when the Isles scored. This was a growing pains game.

Nah. 3rd season of the same thing isn't about one night. Some of us have been saying this for years now.

Not necessarily. Every day with the wrong coach could just be one less day with the other wrong one.

 

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Well I mean you are splitting hairs. I'm not suggesting we fire Quinn to intentionally hire the wrong coach again,, but you can't know that, the longer you KEEP the guy painfully in over his head imo.

Well I mean you are splitting hairs. I'm not suggesting we fire Quinn to intentionally hire the wrong coach again,, but you can't know that, the longer you KEEP the guy painfully in over his head imo.

I was kidding, but there is no shortage of wrong coaches out there.

I always thought this as well. "Structure is for defending", and a "system" isn't an offensive strategy. I was always under the impression that offense was more for creativity, and talent. That, and also to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition.

 

Whenever I hear about "structure" or "system", I'm thinking the old "1-2-2", "man to man" or the "neutral zone trap" kinda stuff....not for offensive flow. In the offensive zone I don't think it's possible to play a "system". I can see, "don't pinch" or "don't get caught up ice". Usually I'll get the whole "Dump & Chase" or now it's "Chip & Chase", but I think the whole "Quinn doesn't have a system" thing is taken where it doesn't make sense to me.

 

I haven't looked at the stats, but I'll bet the Rangers are somewhere among the teams that have allowed the fewest shots on goal per game. Quinn was talking about how they held their "structure" together for 2 1/2 periods before they fucked the duck, so they must have some kinda system going on in there! ;)

Alright, so I didn't want to get nerdy, but here we go:

Overall, systems and structure are in fact for defense, and offense is about creativity, anticipating the play, and moving the puck quickly to elude defenders and get the goaltender moving. But, you have to get the puck up the ice, and you have to do so in a way that promotes your game and the talent around you. The Rangers, systemically, aren't really aggressive. They give up the blue line pretty much always, and they are left to collapse in on the goalie in a 2-1-2 setup, which is great for mucking up the slot, but teams that can cycle the puck well can eventually exploit them when their lesser defensive pairings and partners are on the ice, as well as young kids who are still adjusting to the NHL. This team does not attack in their own zone, they play not to make a mistake, not force mistakes. It's all about limiting high danger chances, keeping the defensemen low, and supporting the goalie. Jacques Martin has definitely also had an influence, as they are much better at clogging the lanes and suppressing shots, but all of this is at the expense of breakouts, turnovers and ultimately, odd man rushes. This is a giant overcorrection from AV's more complicated system that promoted getting the puck out of the zone quickly and with numbers.

And this is where it's problematic for our young skill players. If you are getting to move back up ice consistently with numbers and with speed, the game is easier. We don't make it easy on our young players.

I was kidding, but there is no shortage of wrong coaches out there.

LOL True enough!

I am with ozzy ,give him until the end of the year

if he gets the blame for for Lafreniere and Kakko lack of developing (one is a teenager and the other 20 years old),shouldn't he get credit for fox, chytil and even ADA development

I am with ozzy ,give him until the end of the year

if he gets the blame for for Lafreniere and Kakko lack of developing (one is a teenager and the other 20 years old),shouldn't he get credit for fox, chytil and even ADA development

ADA regressed...

Fox came in as is, he succeeds despite the coach. Dude is another level. And that's how he was billed when they signed him.

Chytil? Okay maybe... but that is one guy lol.

ADA regressed...

 

Fox came in as is, he succeeds despite the coach. Dude is another level. And that's how he was billed when they signed him.

 

Chytil? Okay maybe... but that is one guy lol.

Didn't ADA have a really good year Last.season ,DQ can't help if ADA has mental problems ,and where did fox ever play regular in the NHL before he played for the rangers ,and I can even say Lindgren and miller has been a success under DQ

ADA regressed...

 

Fox came in as is, he succeeds despite the coach. Dude is another level. And that's how he was billed when they signed him.

 

Chytil? Okay maybe... but that is one guy lol.

ADA regressed? He had a career year last year. This year, in a very limited amount of games, he looked terrible. I wouldn't put that on Quinn. I'd put that more on ADA being overconfident, not preparing himself properly, and overall lack of maturity. But the dude did everything and then some last year under Quinn.

ADA regressed? He had a career year last year. This year, in a very limited amount of games, he looked terrible. I wouldn't put that on Quinn. I'd put that more on ADA being overconfident, not preparing himself properly, and overall lack of maturity. But the dude did everything and then some last year under Quinn.

No, he had a career year scoring. As a defenseman, he didn't grow at all. Show me where he was better in his own zone at any point.

I mean ADA regressed. No question about that. Not even sure how that would be debated. He's no longer on the team, part of which in my opinion due to Quinn's handling. We can all disagree all day about it being mostly ADAs fault or SOLELY his fault but I think Quinn deserves some blame with him. He was benched 40 minutes into the season and ADA never got over that when I'm pretty sure most of us knew what would happen there lol. Mostly on ADA, but it was a game where everyone looked like dog poo too and ADA took a stupid selfish penalty in a game that was completely over.

With that being said, does this mean Trouba is being sat next game too then? He's looked like a shell of himself from Winnipeg since getting here, is out of position a lot, pinches when he shouldn't, gets burned a lot including last night, has the foot speed of a crippled sloth, and took a lazy hooking penalty minutes after the Isles took a 2-0 lead late in the game. By Quinn's accountability, Trouba now should sit.

Alright, so I didn't want to get nerdy, but here we go:

 

Overall, systems and structure are in fact for defense, and offense is about creativity, anticipating the play, and moving the puck quickly to elude defenders and get the goaltender moving. But, you have to get the puck up the ice, and you have to do so in a way that promotes your game and the talent around you. The Rangers, systemically, aren't really aggressive. They give up the blue line pretty much always, and they are left to collapse in on the goalie in a 2-1-2 setup, which is great for mucking up the slot, but teams that can cycle the puck well can eventually exploit them when their lesser defensive pairings and partners are on the ice, as well as young kids who are still adjusting to the NHL. This team does not attack in their own zone, they play not to make a mistake, not force mistakes. It's all about limiting high danger chances, keeping the defensemen low, and supporting the goalie. Jacques Martin has definitely also had an influence, as they are much better at clogging the lanes and suppressing shots, but all of this is at the expense of breakouts, turnovers and ultimately, odd man rushes. This is a giant overcorrection from AV's more complicated system that promoted getting the puck out of the zone quickly and with numbers.

 

And this is where it's problematic for our young skill players. If you are getting to move back up ice consistently with numbers and with speed, the game is easier. We don't make it easy on our young players.

I hear your point, AP....the only thing is I wouldn't base anything with D'Angelo. Good bad or indifferent. I'm just looking at Quinn, and his approach.

I like the defense first aspect, solely because I believe that if you can't defend, you can't win a Cup. If that suppresses our forwards for a little bit (a season or 2) in order to learn the NHL 200 Foot Playoff Game, I'm cool with it. I actually like our team defense. The offense I think is the easy part. These guys (Kakko, Laffy, Chytil...etc) have scored goals their whole lives, and I don't think they'll forget how....but backchecking and shuttin down a team like the Caps, and the Isles in back to back fashion was pretty good. Ok, we didn't score in the Isles game, but we had a few really excellent chances to take the lead in that one.

We can disagree on Quinn, I have no beef on that. I'd just rather see these young kids take the responsibility to grab the reigns and be responsible for their own growth.

Thanks for the detailed "Nerdy post". I appreciate the insight, man!! :thumbs:

I mean ADA regressed. No question about that. Not even sure how that would be debated. He's no longer on the team, part of which in my opinion due to Quinn's handling. We can all disagree all day about it being mostly ADAs fault or SOLELY his fault but I think Quinn deserves some blame with him. He was benched 40 minutes into the season and ADA never got over that when I'm pretty sure most of us knew what would happen there lol. Mostly on ADA, but it was a game where everyone looked like dog poo too and ADA took a stupid selfish penalty in a game that was completely over.

 

With that being said, does this mean Trouba is being sat next game too then? He's looked like a shell of himself from Winnipeg since getting here, is out of position a lot, pinches when he shouldn't, gets burned a lot including last night, has the foot speed of a crippled sloth, and took a lazy hooking penalty minutes after the Isles took a 2-0 lead late in the game. By Quinn's accountability, Trouba now should sit.

Idk what Trouba was in Winny. I didn't get to see him enough. He sucks here though. Maybe a new coach helps hide his deficiencies a bit or brings his offense up enough that his contract isn't as bad, bu he suckssss.

I mean ADA regressed. No question about that. Not even sure how that would be debated. He's no longer on the team, part of which in my opinion due to Quinn's handling. We can all disagree all day about it being mostly ADAs fault or SOLELY his fault but I think Quinn deserves some blame with him. He was benched 40 minutes into the season and ADA never got over that when I'm pretty sure most of us knew what would happen there lol. Mostly on ADA, but it was a game where everyone looked like dog poo too and ADA took a stupid selfish penalty in a game that was completely over.

 

With that being said, does this mean Trouba is being sat next game too then? He's looked like a shell of himself from Winnipeg since getting here, is out of position a lot, pinches when he shouldn't, gets burned a lot including last night, has the foot speed of a crippled sloth, and took a lazy hooking penalty minutes after the Isles took a 2-0 lead late in the game. By Quinn's accountability, Trouba now should sit.

Serious question, why are we still trying to make this about ADA? ADA progressed for 76 games and then "regressed" for 4?

Also, when Trouba has the laundry list of other shit besides the penalty, then we can start comparing ADA to Trouba.

Again, ADA is an extreme case which is why he's being handled in an extreme manner.

Serious question, why are we still trying to make this about ADA? ADA progressed for 76 games and then "regressed" for 4?

 

Also, when Trouba has the laundry list of other shit besides the penalty, then we can start comparing ADA to Trouba.

 

Again, ADA is an extreme case which is why he's being handled in an extreme manner.