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Thread: The Gun Control Debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I'm having a hard time finding the stats for how often rape is the only motive for a home invasion, but I'm going to guess that it's not likely.

    And before I bought my house I made sure to move into a low-crime area. I realize not everyone has this luxury.

    I question the people in this particular thread who "need" a gun to defend their home because they live in an area where such an attack is likely.

    So you walk around with an umbrella open all the time in the off chance it may rain, and you need to be prepared to act if it does?
    If carrying concealed is an umbrella then yes, I carry an umbrella everywhere. Difference being if you don't have an umbrella when it rains you get wet, if you don't have a firearm when you need it the consequence is worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If carrying concealed is an umbrella then yes, I carry an umbrella everywhere. Difference being if you don't have an umbrella when it rains you get wet, if you don't have a firearm when you need it the consequence is worse.
    You can't sit there and say you don't expect bad things to happen and then say you carry a concealed weapon wherever you go...This is also where the "I need it to defend my home" excuse goes out the window.

    Carrying concealed should be the first thing that's outlawed. If you have a gun, I want to see it so that I can move very far away from you.

    There's a huge gap in number of people who have firearms compared the number who have actual tactical training and experience. The latter makes me feel safe, the former doesn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    If you own a firearm you should be practicing. If you buy a gun, put it in a safe, and never touch it again what's the point? I shoot 2-3 times a month, 1 being a competition. I'd shoot way more if I didn't have to pay for ammo. I dry fire almost everyday. If we weren't having this discussion I wouldn't be sitting here thinking about it.
    Sorry, I thought you meant practicing getting the gun out of the safe.

    But the more we talk, the more it sounds like you just like guns and firing them, and less like an actual need to defend your home (vs a perceived need, which is not at all the same.)

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    This is also an article with some good data, if anyone wants to read it.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You can't sit there and say you don't expect bad things to happen and then say you carry a concealed weapon wherever you go...This is also where the "I need it to defend my home" excuse goes out the window.

    Carrying concealed should be the first thing that's outlawed. If you have a gun, I want to see it so that I can move very far away from you.

    There's a huge gap in number of people who have firearms compared the number who have actual tactical training and experience. The latter makes me feel safe, the former doesn't.
    I mentioned concealed carry because of your umbrella analogy, to apply your umbrella analogy to home defense, well my house has a roof but I have tools available to patch leaks.

    Not making fun of you but the bolded made me think of this. Not saying you do, but a lot of people have an irrational fear of guns. If you been to any type of shopping center in any Midwestern or Mountain West state, you've like been in the presence of multiple people with concealed weapons and been in zero danger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    I mentioned concealed carry because of your umbrella analogy, to apply your umbrella analogy to home defense, well my house has a roof but I have tools available to patch leaks.

    Not making fun of you but the bolded made me think of this. Not saying you do, but a lot of people have an irrational fear of guns. If you been to any type of shopping center in any Midwestern or Mountain West state, you've like been in the presence of multiple people with concealed weapons and been in zero danger.
    Nah, I've shot guns quite a few times. Lots of folks in my family have guns. My uncle is a former cop. He used to carry all the time. My next door neighbor and across the street neighbor are both cops who carry. I don't mind when they have guns because they have actual tactical training and experience.

    I just understand that if I had a gun, it doesn't make my home less likely to be invaded, and if the invasion happens the chances of me getting to a properly stored and secured gun are very slim. I'd likely be able to defend my house more successfully if I kept a Katana on my wall out of the reach of my child. I also understand that I live in an area where the chance of a home invasion is slim. I understand it "can" happen to anyone, just like anyone "can" hit the lottery...But I still put money into my 401k because it's highly unlikely that my retirement comes from Power Ball.

    I can easily say the people in this thread have irrational fears of home invasions.

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    Ok, so I'm a probation/parole officer. Certified the same as the officers at the local PD's. In addition we do quite a bit of building clearing training (this is in addition to my recreational shooting). We serve arrest warrants and search for fugitives. So I get it, I don't view home defense like the average person.

    But I'm also more aware of actually goes on out there, specifically in my community. If you're just going off of news articles or statistics there is most likely a piece of the picture missing. Not all crimes get reported, not all incidents make the news, not all departments report their stats to the FBI. I've read the actual police reports about crap load of violent crimes committed by the inmates I supervised when I worked in the prison, the parolees that get out of prison, from high profile cases in the news. I don't have an irrational fear of home invasions. Again outside of this convo, I don't sit around thinking about it, although I concede I have more training than most and can switch into 'cop mode' when the need is there.

    At the end of the day bad shit happens. As rare as it may be, I believe people should be able, and prepared, to defend themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Ok, so I'm a probation/parole officer. Certified the same as the officers at the local PD's. In addition we do quite a bit of building clearing training (this is in addition to my recreational shooting). We serve arrest warrants and search for fugitives. So I get it, I don't view home defense like the average person.

    But I'm also more aware of actually goes on out there, specifically in my community. If you're just going off of news articles or statistics there is most likely a piece of the picture missing. Not all crimes get reported, not all incidents make the news, not all departments report their stats to the FBI. I've read the actual police reports about crap load of violent crimes committed by the inmates I supervised when I worked in the prison, the parolees that get out of prison, from high profile cases in the news. I don't have an irrational fear of home invasions. Again outside of this convo, I don't sit around thinking about it, although I concede I have more training than most and can switch into 'cop mode' when the need is there.

    At the end of the day bad shit happens. As rare as it may be, I believe people should be able, and prepared, to defend themselves.
    You are the minority of gun owners that I'd trust with a weapon.

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    Out here in the Rocky Mountain states there are a lot of opportunities for training for private citizens. Everyone that owns a gun should train. Firearm proficiency is a perishable skill. I realize a lot of gun owners don't train. It takes time and money. Guns, gear, ammo, and classes are expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    A revlover is more reliable than a pistol. Pistols can jam up easier than a revolver and you can have a miss load in a pistol easier than a revolver. I have a couple of pistols, rifles and shotguns, and I would rather have a revolver for protection than a pistol. If you need more than a standard amount of rounds if someone breaks into your home, you have bigger issues than how many rounds your firearm can hold.
    And i concede to the gentleman who would be considered a expert.
    Thanks for info NYR, and good point about reliability of a revolver.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Puck Head View Post
    And i concede to the gentleman who would be considered a expert.
    Thanks for info NYR, and good point about reliability of a revolver.


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    Thanks, I carry all pistols and wish they would let me get a revolver to carry as a second piece because I have had malfunctions with my gun, and I keep my guns clean and use very good ammo. It happens every once in a while. I have dealt with hundreds of guns from off the streets, and a lot of them are very scary because people don't take care of them. As a trained person, you don't empty your firearm into someone, you shoot to stop the threat. In a home invasion, if there is more than 1 perp, and his buddy gets shot, they aren't going to keep advancing on you, they are going to run. Ive been to many home invasions, and once someone starts fighting back with a weapon, they usually run. We had one victim stab 1 out of 3 perps pretty badly, and they all took off. A ton of blood in the apartment, down 5 flights of stairs, and down the sidewalk and into a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    Thanks, I carry all pistols and wish they would let me get a revolver to carry as a second piece because I have had malfunctions with my gun, and I keep my guns clean and use very good ammo. It happens every once in a while. I have dealt with hundreds of guns from off the streets, and a lot of them are very scary because people don't take care of them. As a trained person, you don't empty your firearm into someone, you shoot to stop the threat. In a home invasion, if there is more than 1 perp, and his buddy gets shot, they aren't going to keep advancing on you, they are going to run. Ive been to many home invasions, and once someone starts fighting back with a weapon, they usually run. We had one victim stab 1 out of 3 perps pretty badly, and they all took off. A ton of blood in the apartment, down 5 flights of stairs, and down the sidewalk and into a car.
    What do you carry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    What do you carry?
    I have Glocks for my service and off duty. I used to have a Kahr but the department messed it up so we weren't allowed to carry it anymore. They are having issues with the Smith & Wessons because they changed the company and now make them someplace else, and they keep breaking, so we heard they may be getting rid of them soon. Smith isn't what it used to be.

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    Was it Glock you've experienced malfunctions with or S&W? I have 3 Glocks of my own and am on my second Glock duty weapon. Probably shot close to 15k rounds through them total and when using factory ammo and Glock magazines I can count the number of times the gun malfunctioned (so not including bad primers) on one hand. If one were to debate the chances the you need more the 6-8 rounds in your revolver versus the chances my Glock fails, I'd rather have the ammo. But again comes down to practicing perishable skills. Shoot to stop the threat is right. In my house that means until bad guy falls down or runs away. If bad guy presents a weapon, I can get a lot of rounds off before one of those two things happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    I have Glocks for my service and off duty. I used to have a Kahr but the department messed it up so we weren't allowed to carry it anymore. They are having issues with the Smith & Wessons because they changed the company and now make them someplace else, and they keep breaking, so we heard they may be getting rid of them soon. Smith isn't what it used to be.
    Does your department allow CZs?
    If so, look in to CZ P-01 compact with rail, almost same size as G19.
    Its a workhorse, but its also DA/SA. Not sure if you are into that.

    If you want to try it out, let me know.
    Rebuild Mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long live the King View Post
    Was it Glock you've experienced malfunctions with or S&W? I have 3 Glocks of my own and am on my second Glock duty weapon. Probably shot close to 15k rounds through them total and when using factory ammo and Glock magazines I can count the number of times the gun malfunctioned (so not including bad primers) on one hand. If one were to debate the chances the you need more the 6-8 rounds in your revolver versus the chances my Glock fails, I'd rather have the ammo. But again comes down to practicing perishable skills. Shoot to stop the threat is right. In my house that means until bad guy falls down or runs away. If bad guy presents a weapon, I can get a lot of rounds off before one of those two things happen.
    I’ve had my glock have a phase 1 a couple of times. All guns can have a phase 1, it’s not uncommon. But we also are trained on how to clear them. Smiths and Sigs have a lot of issues too and have more phase 2 malfunctions.

    Are you really going to unload more than 6 rounds in your house? And again, most home invasions are planned. Very rarely is a home invasion done on a completely innocent person. Most of them are either drug or money related. And you take 1 shot at someone, th y aren’t going to keep advancing you, they are gonna run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers View Post
    Does your department allow CZ’s?
    If so, look in to CZ P-01 compact with rail, almost same size as G19.
    Its a workhorse, but its also DA/SA. Not sure if you are into that.

    If you want to try it out, let me know.
    We are only allowed to carry certain ones, and they have to meet my departments specs. My department ruins guns because of the trigger pull they have.

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    Can someone shoot Gilmour ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    Can someone shoot Gilmour ?
    Lmao.. and here I though someone wanting his face punched was bad.

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