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Thread: The Gun Control Debate

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    @EW: Just in: Suspect dead in a Nashville movie theater shooting, police say: http://t.co/7yk3BAOnHg http://t.co/GsToQGKYIL
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    This is why i never go to the movies. I can wait for the Blu Ray

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    Latest reports now are saying he was armed with a pellet gun, so this was possibly a suicide by cop situation

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    These situations are exactly why I carry all the time off duty. The only time I don't carry is if I am away on vacation or if I am having a couple of drinks.

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    Despite the fact that I don't want to, I think it's time to accept that we aren't going to be banning guns. If a mass shooting in an elementary school doesn't spark that debate, or the shooting of a U.S. Congresswoman, then I don't think it will ever come to fruition. It's time to talk about federal gun regulations. A federal registration system, new price floors for firearms, no online sales of weapons or ammunition, longer wait times for firearm purchases, outright bans of assault weapons. States have failed time and time again to implement real policies on gun control. And even when states do, other states in a region can have little to no laws making purchasing guns insanely simple.

    I had posted something on Facebook earlier to which I received a response citing Chicago's strict gun laws and how they haven't helped. Part of the reason why they haven't helped is because of how simple it is to purchase firearms in surrounding counties and states. Indiana has very loose laws. We live in an age where interstate travel is very easy and happens often. Just the same, guns can move with this same ease. State gun laws only work if everyone is on a similar page.
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    As a Canadian, this issue with gun control baffles me.

    Regulate the distribution. Fine those who haven't registered them. Make initial registration difficult.

    But I get the fact that guns and America have a long history, just as the samurai sword and Japan share a relationship, yet at the end of the day it seems really archaic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontonyr View Post
    As a Canadian, this issue with gun control baffles me.

    Regulate the distribution. Fine those who haven't registered them. Make initial registration difficult.

    But I get the fact that guns and America have a long history, just as the samurai sword and Japan share a relationship, yet at the end of the day it seems really archaic.
    The problem is that the punishments are a joke. Guys do 1-3 years, pending on their record for possessing a gun or shooting someone, and then are back out on the streets doing the same exact thing. I have had gun cases where its the guys 3rd or 4th gun arrest, and he is only 23 years old.

    They need to have more restrictions with going out gun licenses, any mental health issues and you can't own a gun, period. But the main problem are illegal guns. MAny of these guns are in such bad shape that if you point straight, it fires to the side, or these dopes have the wrong ammo in the gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by High and Wide View Post
    Despite the fact that I don't want to, I think it's time to accept that we aren't going to be banning guns. If a mass shooting in an elementary school doesn't spark that debate, or the shooting of a U.S. Congresswoman, then I don't think it will ever come to fruition. It's time to talk about federal gun regulations. A federal registration system, new price floors for firearms, no online sales of weapons or ammunition, longer wait times for firearm purchases, outright bans of assault weapons. States have failed time and time again to implement real policies on gun control. And even when states do, other states in a region can have little to no laws making purchasing guns insanely simple.

    I had posted something on Facebook earlier to which I received a response citing Chicago's strict gun laws and how they haven't helped. Part of the reason why they haven't helped is because of how simple it is to purchase firearms in surrounding counties and states. Indiana has very loose laws. We live in an age where interstate travel is very easy and happens often. Just the same, guns can move with this same ease. State gun laws only work if everyone is on a similar page.
    This is the only advanced nation on the planet where this is commonplace, and that simply is not OK. Us (as peoples of the Nation) refusing to talk about this in a serious manner and continuing to allow this to be commonplace is borderline criminal.

    The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the COMBINED rate of 22 countries who are our peer in both wealth and population. It doesn't get anymore damning than this. And I don't want to hear any bullshit about how our "culture" is different. You're right. It is. Our culture somehow accepts this fact and deems it not dangerous enough to fucking change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    This is the only advanced nation on the planet where this is commonplace, and that simply is not OK. Us (as peoples of the Nation) refusing to talk about this in a serious manner and continuing to allow this to be commonplace is borderline criminal.

    The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the COMBINED rate of 22 countries who are our peer in both wealth and population. It doesn't get anymore damning than this. And I don't want to hear any bullshit about how our "culture" is different. You're right. It is. Our culture somehow accepts this fact and deems it not dangerous enough to fucking change.
    But thats because our culture glorifies it. Look at rap music, it glorifies having a gun and shooting people. Look at movies, its the same thing. We make it look like its a necessity and cool and accepted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYR2711 View Post
    But thats because our culture glorifies it. Look at rap music, it glorifies having a gun and shooting people. Look at movies, its the same thing. We make it look like its a necessity and cool and accepted.
    So what? That culture has to change, by force if necessary.

    Our culture supported slavery for decades. It's now illegal to own another human being in this country.

    Our culture supports gun ownership in an age when nearly 900 mass shootings have occurred since Sandy Hook and almost nothing has been done to address gun violence. Well, guess what? Too bad for that culture. Enough is enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    So what? That culture has to change, by force if necessary.

    Our culture supported slavery for decades. It's now illegal to own another human being in this country.

    Our culture supports gun ownership in an age when nearly 900 mass shootings have occurred since Sandy Hook and almost nothing has been done to address gun violence. Well, guess what? Too bad for that culture. Enough is enough.
    Im not disagreeing with you, but I also don't see it happening. If something is making money here, they don't care what the message is.

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    This country has shown they don't know how to treat guns. So we have to take the guns away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This country has shown they don't know how to treat guns. So we have to take the guns away.
    The only real issue I see with outright taking them is that there is a risk of uprising to that path.

    The slavery analogy I gave earlier, for example, tore the country asunder, and left millions dead, largely over the singular issue of slavery. Not that that wasn't the right fight to fight, and not that there really was an alternative, but it's something we have to consider.

    If tomorrow, for example, the U.S. effectively bans the ownership and sale of guns nation-wide, I'm not sure that gun rights advocates would just go quietly.
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    Part of me agrees, but the other part of me thinks that "taking guns away" won't stop criminals from getting them and won't stop people who are hell bent on killing from killing.

    But honestly, it's time for our leaders and politicians to stop "thinking and praying" and start fucking doing something meaningful in this department. Limiting magazine sizes isn't even a half measure, it's a quarter measure. Start getting tough on these fucking gun lobbies. Grow a pair of balls. I just can't believe a country that has become all about "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" didn't do a fucking meaningful thing after there was a mass shooting at a goddamn elementary school.

    /rant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphinity View Post
    Part of me agrees, but the other part of me thinks that "taking guns away" won't stop criminals from getting them and won't stop people who are hell bent on killing from killing.

    But honestly, it's time for our leaders and politicians to stop "thinking and praying" and start fucking doing something meaningful in this department. Limiting magazine sizes isn't even a half measure, it's a quarter measure. Start getting tough on these fucking gun lobbies. Grow a pair of balls. I just can't believe a country that has become all about "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" didn't do a fucking meaningful thing after there was a mass shooting at a goddamn elementary school.

    /rant
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The only real issue I see with outright taking them is that there is a risk of uprising to that path.

    The slavery analogy I gave earlier, for example, tore the country asunder, and left millions dead, largely over the singular issue of slavery. Not that that wasn't the right fight to fight, and not that there really was an alternative, but it's something we have to consider.

    If tomorrow, for example, the U.S. effectively bans the ownership and sale of guns nation-wide, I'm not sure that gun rights advocates would just go quietly.
    Wouldn't be something that is done overnight, for sure. But it needs to be done, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphinity View Post
    Part of me agrees, but the other part of me thinks that "taking guns away" won't stop criminals from getting them and won't stop people who are hell bent on killing from killing.

    But honestly, it's time for our leaders and politicians to stop "thinking and praying" and start fucking doing something meaningful in this department. Limiting magazine sizes isn't even a half measure, it's a quarter measure. Start getting tough on these fucking gun lobbies. Grow a pair of balls. I just can't believe a country that has become all about "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" didn't do a fucking meaningful thing after there was a mass shooting at a goddamn elementary school.

    /rant
    This much I can absolutely agree with. Not that I think that commemorating the dead isn't important, this kind of "now isn't the time" thinking has been a go-to from conservatives, gun lobbyists and gun rights advocates for decades now.

    "Now isn't the time for politics" always seems to be the response after the latest mass shooting occurs. Nearly 900 of them since Sandy Hook. The response the same, every time. "Now isn't the time". When, exactly, is the time?

    Not to derail the thread, but I've seen similar things said of religion, for example. The 2004 tsunami that devastated South Asian, or the 2010 earthquake that decimated Haiti, for examples, were met with "I'll pray for them" responses en masse. I remember angrily firing back at those people online by telling them their prayers are worthless. I'm paraphrasing myself, but it went something like "What you are saying when you write that you'll pray for the victims is "I care, but only in so far as it doesn't cost me anything", because what these people really need is money and aid. That's why the Red Cross accepts donations, not pleas to whatever deity you believe is going to intervene if you ask him enough".

    That, of course, was met with "now isn't the time to talk about religion" responses. Of course it isn't. It never is. Because why actually address problems when we can just continue to wait them out until something else comes along to distract everyone from the last tragedy?
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    Guns are far too embedded into the foundation and history of the United States for them to be taken away. Not now, not in 50 years, and probably ever. It's just in our culture. It's why most of these are met with half assed responses like limited magazines or going after some really rare unheard of gun or type of ammo. Its because politicians know that any mention of taking away guns is political suicide. Look how half the country was up in arms because of some rumor that Obama was going to "take away muh guns".

    Fact is, we love guns. We can't get enough of them. From movies to music and video games, we just fucking love guns. To some, its a sense of protection. To others, and this will sound a bit cliche, but its a sense of freedom. Not saying I agree, but its how people feel.

    We're a country built on paranoia. We were afraid the British might come back (and they did for a short time). We're afraid that the government is going to become some sort of tyranny. In the past, people have taken up arms over it. Some were small like the Whiskey Rebellion, Shay's rebellion, and John Brown's rebellion. Then there's the big one. The Civil War. Half of the country took up arms and seceded from the US just because one man took over the White House and the paranoia that he was going to take away slavery. Things have changed over time, but at its core, this country's state of mind is still "if i don't like it, ill take up arms against it". If the government were to at any time introduce an amendment to take away gun rights, it wouldn't get past the first few phases. It's about the paranoia and the "what ifs" in government. Even some of what I call "common sense" guns restrictions are met with intense scrutiny. .50 Anti Material rifle? Military grade LMGs? Freedom. Grenade Launchers? FREEDOM. These have no place in common society, but we still allow them because we fucking love guns and want to keep them as a security blanket for some doomsday scenario that we put into our minds.

    You can talk all you want about how politicians should get bigger balls and take on the gun lobbies, but it won't happen. You want to know why there are all these half measures? Its because politicians know that anything more would give them more backlash than anything they've ever seen before. Without a major culture change, anything more than a "magazine limit" or a bullet ban would not survive on the house floor. If Sandy Hook couldn't convince the country that a nation wide gun ban would be a good idea, frankly nothing will.

    Sorry if that came off as cynical, its just how I see things these days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvbcaboose View Post
    Guns are far too embedded into the foundation and history of the United States for them to be taken away. Not now, not in 50 years, and probably ever. It's just in our culture. It's why most of these are met with half assed responses like limited magazines or going after some really rare unheard of gun or type of ammo. Its because politicians know that any mention of taking away guns is political suicide. Look how half the country was up in arms because of some rumor that Obama was going to "take away muh guns".

    Fact is, we love guns. We can't get enough of them. From movies to music and video games, we just fucking love guns. To some, its a sense of protection. To others, and this will sound a bit cliche, but its a sense of freedom. Not saying I agree, but its how people feel.

    We're a country built on paranoia. We were afraid the British might come back (and they did for a short time). We're afraid that the government is going to become some sort of tyranny. In the past, people have taken up arms over it. Some were small like the Whiskey Rebellion, Shay's rebellion, and John Brown's rebellion. Then there's the big one. The Civil War. Half of the country took up arms and seceded from the US just because one man took over the White House and the paranoia that he was going to take away slavery. Things have changed over time, but at its core, this country's state of mind is still "if i don't like it, ill take up arms against it". If the government were to at any time introduce an amendment to take away gun rights, it wouldn't get past the first few phases. It's about the paranoia and the "what ifs" in government. Even some of what I call "common sense" guns restrictions are met with intense scrutiny. .50 Anti Material rifle? Military grade LMGs? Freedom. Grenade Launchers? FREEDOM. These have no place in common society, but we still allow them because we fucking love guns and want to keep them as a security blanket for some doomsday scenario that we put into our minds.

    You can talk all you want about how politicians should get bigger balls and take on the gun lobbies, but it won't happen. You want to know why there are all these half measures? Its because politicians know that anything more would give them more backlash than anything they've ever seen before. Without a major culture change, anything more than a "magazine limit" or a bullet ban would not survive on the house floor. If Sandy Hook couldn't convince the country that a nation wide gun ban would be a good idea, frankly nothing will.

    Sorry if that came off as cynical, its just how I see things these days.
    So was slavery, and we changed that. At great cost, yes, but changed it nonetheless.

    We loved slavery then, too. We loved discrimination laws against blacks. We loved not allowing women to vote. We loved denying gay couples the right to marry.

    Being culturally linked to immoral behavior isn't reason enough not to change that behavior. No matter how deeply entrenched you may feel it is.

    These are nearly three years old, and yet still incredibly relevant:



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    This series of tweets by an AP Photog bring up an interesting point

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