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    Death Penalty

    I know this is a touchy subject, but with what happened yesterday, I think this is a good time to talk about the death penalty. For those of you that dont know, yesterday on the Nassau/Queens border, a savage hit another vehicle in front of a marked police car and took off. The cops chased him down the Cross Island Parkway, the animal was driving on his rims. He got off the parkway and stopped his car. As the cop approached him, the animal got out of the car, and shot the cop in the chest killing him, unfortunately the cop wasnt wearing his vest for some reason. This animal then took off back onto the Cross Island and forced an innocent driver off the road. He pulled the poor guy out of his car and shot him once in the head and took off in his car, then abandoned the car a couple of blocks away. They found this piece of garbage last night in a car with self inflicted gun shot wounds to his shoulder and thigh, the coward can shoot others in the head, but not himself. He is now under arrest for the murder's of two innocent people. He has a pretty extensive rap sheet, and served 5 years for attempted murder from 2004-2008, then was paroled, was arrested for violating his parole, and then served a year for dealing drugs.

    The question has come up about whether this piece of garbage should be face the death penalty or not. I feel that if there is not doubt about it that someone commits a horrific crime, the person should get the death penalty. Crimes of murder, rape and crimes against kids should be death penalty cases in my opinion. Its obvious that just doing jail time isnt enough since it seems like these guys just come out and repeat their crimes. Gun laws arent enough since its not the legal gun owners that are committing these crimes, and something needs to stop people from committing these crimes. Across the nation this year, crimes involving guns and murders have sky rocketed. Its time to stop these, and the only way to curb them is to increase the punishments. What is everyone else's take on the death penalty?

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    The death penalty does not work. This has been proven, time and time again. Look at the state of Texas. They've had capital punishment since 1819. The number of murders, violent crimes, rape, etc. they have each year is absurdly high when you consider that capital punishment is supposed to "deter" that type of behavior.

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

    The death penalty is an archaic system that was designed to serve as the fulfillment of avenging someone's death for their family and friends. It DOES NOT, however, deter violent crime in any way, so what is the point of it when it often costs the state more to execute an individual than it does to house them in prison?

    To me this is all part of the greater prison reform debate, and reform is something I'm very much in support of. The system does not work, because it's based on retribution, not rehabilitation.
    Last edited by Phil in Absentia; 10-24-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    The death penalty does not work. This has been proven, time and time again. Look at the state of Texas. They've had capital punishment since 1819. The number of murders, violent crimes, rape, etc. they have each year is absurdly high when you consider that capital punishment is supposed to "deter" that type of behavior.

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

    The death penalty is an archaic system that was designed to serve as the fulfillment of avenging someone's death for their family and friends. It DOES NOT, however, deter violent crime in any way, so what is the point of it when it often costs the state more to execute an individual than it does to house them in prison?

    To me this is all part of the greater prison reform debate, and reform is something I'm very much in support of. The system does not work, because it's based on retribution, not rehabilitation.
    I don't see how that's possible. Let's say it costs $10 a day to feed him (which is being generous). That's $3650 a year. Times that by 20,30, 40 years. I've always heard this statement and I'm yet to understand how it works. Needle, pine box, shovel, done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I don't see how that's possible. Let's say it costs $10 a day to feed him (which is being generous). That's $3650 a year. Times that by 20,30, 40 years. I've always heard this statement and I'm yet to understand how it works. Needle, pine box, shovel, done.
    This. While it seems a bit inhumane to bring up cost effectivity when it comes to someone's life, take into consideration that the crime committed is inhumane, and where possible the punishment should fit the crime. If beyond a reasonable doubt somebody murdered someone premeditatedly and/or without true remorse, they should be handed the death penalty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I don't see how that's possible. Let's say it costs $10 a day to feed him (which is being generous). That's $3650 a year. Times that by 20,30, 40 years. I've always heard this statement and I'm yet to understand how it works. Needle, pine box, shovel, done.
    The problem is in the appeals process, because of the court costs. This is why I think the appeals process should only go for the longest of 4-5 years. Make a separate court specifically for death sentence appeals, and it will speed up the process. I agree with you though, it would still be cheaper, because besides food costs, you have medical costs and all the other costs of housing them. I would still think it would save money over 50 years in prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    I don't see how that's possible. Let's say it costs $10 a day to feed him (which is being generous). That's $3650 a year. Times that by 20,30, 40 years. I've always heard this statement and I'm yet to understand how it works. Needle, pine box, shovel, done.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692.../#.UIgJrWkiHL4

    "It's 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive," though most Americans believe the opposite, said Donald McCartin, a former California jurist known as "The Hanging Judge of Orange County" for sending nine men to death row.
    Death penalty trials are more expensive for several reasons: They often require extra lawyers; there are strict experience requirements for attorneys, leading to lengthy appellate waits while capable counsel is sought for the accused; security costs are higher, as well as costs for processing evidence — DNA testing, for example, is far more expensive than simple blood analyses.

    After sentencing, prices continue to rise. It costs more to house death row inmates, who are held in segregated sections, in individual cells, with guards delivering everything from daily meals to toilet paper.

    In California, home to the nation's biggest death row population at 667, it costs an extra $90,000 per inmate to imprison someone sentenced to death — an additional expense that totals more than $63.3 million annually, according to a 2008 study by the state's Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice.
    And that's just California.

    The cost to kill is absurdly high because everyone here is operating under the idea that when a man is convicted, he's dragged out back and shot. He's not. He's then put into the system and goes through 15-20 years' worth of appeals and trial processes before he ever reaches the needle. In that time, he racks up an insane amount of cost of care, transportation, etc. as illustrated above.

    The moment you get rid of that is the moment you open the flood gates to wrongful executions left-and-right.

    It is NOT a deterrent — proven.
    It costs the state MUCH more to (attempt to) kill them — proven.

    So why do it?

    Again — this is an outdated, broken system designed from an archaic line of thinking to serve as the fulfillment of avenging someone's death for their family and friends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rome 2.0 View Post
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692.../#.UIgJrWkiHL4





    And that's just California.

    The cost to kill is absurdly high because everyone here is operating under the idea that when a man is convicted, he's dragged out back and shot. He's not. He's then put into the system and goes through 15-20 years' worth of appeals and trial processes before he ever reaches the needle. In that time, he racks up an insane amount of cost of care, transportation, etc. as illustrated above.

    The moment you get rid of that is the moment you open the flood gates to wrongful executions left-and-right.

    It is NOT a deterrent — proven.
    It costs the state MUCH more to (attempt to) kill them — proven.

    So why do it?

    Again — this is an outdated, broken system designed from an archaic line of thinking to serve as the fulfillment of avenging someone's death for their family and friends.
    It took him 20 minutes to take 2 lives. Why should he receive the luxury of being alive for 20 years awaiting trial? Take him out back and shoot him. Show him the same respect he showed for others. Buh bye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    It took him 20 minutes to take 2 lives. Why should he receive the luxury of being alive for 20 years awaiting trial? Take him out back and shoot him. Show him the same respect he showed for others. Buh bye.
    See my first response in this. This, to me, is all part of a bigger, more important PRISON reform discussion. The death penalty cannot be fixed to work in a broken system. If the system is broken, it needs to be fixed. Changing a flat tire on a car without a working transmission does not make the car run any better.

    And what happens when you are so sure you've got it right, you drag the guy out back and shoot him, and bam, a week later DNA evidence comes back and it turns out you were wrong? What now? Ever see The Life and Death of David Gale?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey37 View Post
    It took him 20 minutes to take 2 lives. Why should he receive the luxury of being alive for 20 years awaiting trial? Take him out back and shoot him. Show him the same respect he showed for others. Buh bye.
    It's impossible for a modern state to create a law to judge people differently. You can't judge people you think(!) are guilty differently from the others.
    First of all you forget that law has to treat everyone equal! People fought for this right in Revolutions. (also for this fair unbiased trial thing, the media seems to hate so much)

    Also you would open the floodgates not only to wrongful executions, but also to abuse. Always remember that immoral people might come into power too. They better don't find an easy way to execute people already in existance, if they do.

    On the day you show me a way, to judge everyone without any remaining doubt, on that day I might agree with you.

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    I honestly think he should just get life and live his life in the shitter.

    But then again, why waste space for a shithead like this?

    I'm okay with the death penalty when it's this out of hand. Guy got a second chance and he ruined it for himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuhgeddaboudit View Post
    I honestly think he should just get life and live his life in the shitter.

    But then again, why waste space for a shithead like this?

    I'm okay with the death penalty when it's this out of hand. Guy got a second chance and he ruined it for himself.
    Keep him in jail for life is quite a lot of taxpayer money to keep him alive in a jail cell. If it would cost taxpayers less $$$ to give him the death penalty then by all means inject him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Heaven View Post
    Keep him in jail for life is quite a lot of taxpayer money to keep him alive in a jail cell. If it would cost taxpayers less $$$ to give him the death penalty then by all means inject him.

    I forgot to add that was another problem with giving him life. Taxpayers get naughty with that stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Heaven View Post
    Keep him in jail for life is quite a lot of taxpayer money to keep him alive in a jail cell. If it would cost taxpayers less $$$ to give him the death penalty then by all means inject him.
    This is how I feel. I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent any more than life without parole is. These people have broken minds that don't operate on the same wavelengths as the rest of us.

    But logistically, why keep the guy alive and pay to support him if he has no chance of parole? Put him to death. He certainly isn't going to "suffer" in jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peetie27 View Post
    This is how I feel. I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrent any more than life without parole is. These people have broken minds that don't operate on the same wavelengths as the rest of us.

    But logistically, why keep the guy alive and pay to support him if he has no chance of parole? Put him to death. He certainly isn't going to "suffer" in jail.
    Exactly how I feel as well.
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    Lets see, news yesterday I read about:

    Scumbag shoots dead cop and innocent man
    Two scumbags abduct and kill 12 year old girl for her bike
    Scumbag abducts his neighbor, makes her perform oral sex on him and then shoots her 4x

    DEATH PENALTY PLEASE.

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    The problem is that there are tons of appeals and the process takes so long. If you are 100% guilty, and all evidence points to you, then you should have an appeals process that takes only a couple of years, tops, not 10-15 years. Jails are crowded, and this is why these animals are getting out, so this will at least stop these savages from coming back out into society and committing these crimes again. These people arent reformed when they come out, they just have to behave while in prison, they have no remorse for what they do, and they dont try to change.

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    Death penalty should be reserved for those who rape, abuse, etc.

    Case like this, cut off his arms, right left, and leave a tiny stump on his left leg. Then let him rot in a cell giving him cat food every day. Maybe show him pictures of his family every few months.
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    Clear cut killings should result in quick death sentences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsley View Post
    Clear cut killings should result in quick death sentences.
    Ummm... that's exactly what he wants. He tried. Now, you grant him his last wish? Not in my country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsley View Post
    Clear cut killings should result in quick death sentences.
    This. Its not right that an animal that kills people can still have 3 meals everyday and see his family at least once a month while the poor victim and their family can never have any of this. These animals get to say goodbye to their families when the victims never get that chance.

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